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Private schools, wow what a difference! (Year 4)

365 replies

FedUpWithSchools · 17/03/2011 12:48

Got very disillusioned with DS?s ?outstanding? primary. First alarm bells started to ring in year 3, when every single day he?ll bring a drawing or a robot made of cardboard or a car made of boxes, you get the picture while he hardly got any homework. I tried talking to his teacher about it, but she was always very reassuring and said he is doing fine. I am a foreigner, so was not so familiar with a UK education system and thought the teacher knows what she is doing. Then in year 4 I found out about sets. Apparently my son is in a middle set for everything. According to teacher, he got an ability to be in a top set in a different class, but because his class is overall ?exceptionally bright?, the top set is working at a level of year 5, or even sometimes year 6. My son complains that on days that they got math (and they don?t do math every day), bottom set gets to ?play? on PCs ? they do educational games, middle set gets work to do on their own, and the teacher sits with the top set (5 kids out of a class of 35) and teaches them. If my son or anybody else gets ?stuck? on their work, the teacher with just get very stressed and will tell him in a raised voice just to get on with his work or read a book or draw something if he is finished. Bottom set gets a ?special? teacher to work with them a few times a week during literacy and math lessons. Children never move between sets. Sometimes my son finishes his work quickly and asks to listen or join with the top set, but teacher always gets annoyed and sends him back to his table.

I had a parents meeting with the teacher a few weeks ago, and raised all my concerns. I am very worried about the amount of stuff he is learning at school, as the 11+ is looming and only the top 5 kids are getting sufficient tutoring to pass the exam. The teacher agreed with me, and hinted that it will benefit my son to get a tutor or even better a private school. So off we went to look for a private. And all I can say is wow! We visited 4 schools in total. Class sizes vary from 16 to 22; 2 schools were selective, another 2 are not. But all 4 of the schools had a grammar pass rate between 90% and 85%. My son?s school sends around 6 kids out of 70 each year, so 3 kids per class. In all private schools that we visited all kids are taught by the same teacher at the same level. They also sit on their own desks facing the teacher, not in groups. Children get books for each subject, so the parent knows exactly what is covered at school on each given day, and will be able to go over it at home if needed. There is also an hour of homework every day and in year 5 schools run ?summer schools? to coach for 11+ exams. Some schools also had longer days in year 5 to cover the material quicker and start preparing for 11+ earlier in the year.

To be honest, the difference of standards and attainment really shocked me. How do they manage to teach every single kid in a classroom to the same level when a state school claims its impossible? Why state school cant just teach all kids at the same level, with kids all sitting and listening to the teacher instead of sitting in groups around round tables, sometimes with their backs to the blackboard? I really don?t get it. We are moving our son next week to a new school, wish I knew about the differences earlier, feeling guilty now for denying him a proper education for so many years.

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Fabi76 · 17/03/2011 12:54

Very interesting. I am also not familiar with the UK system, and my DD is just a baby, but will definitely take this into account when looking for a schools for her. What I find amazing is how expensive private schools are in this country. I hope your DS does well in his new school. Good luck!

cazzybabs · 17/03/2011 12:57

don't forget the private schools are selling a service - you need to make sure you read between the lines.

Also private schools don't have the same spread as a state school - they don't have the bottom end and also if they select then they can ensure all children are of a similar ability

they may also have more staff resources and smaller class sizes again which make things easier

also you may just not have a great state school teacher

FedUpWithSchools · 17/03/2011 13:00

Thank you Fabi76! Please dont listen to people going on and on about "excellent" state schools. The way I see it the child will get a great education in a state school as long as he is in a top set. I think With my youngest I'll start with a state school, but will be looking at private from year 3 onwards.

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seeker · 17/03/2011 13:02

"Opens mouth to explain that all private schools are selective in one way or anothe, and why it is possible to get a high 11÷ pass rate if you are in a position to reject 93% of the population - but decides not to, because if the Op can't see it then nothing I can say will make it clear to her."

SarkyLady · 17/03/2011 13:03

"The way I see it the child will get a great education in a state school as long as he is in a top set."

May be true for your Ds's class this year, but def not a universal truth.

FedUpWithSchools · 17/03/2011 13:03

Hi cazzy! We live in a good area, so virtually all kids at my son's state primary come from stable middle class homes. Some of his classmates moved in the end of year 2 to private schools, but at the time I could not figure why. But now I know. All kids are very polite, nice children, in no way different to kids that we met in the private schools. So I am surprised that they cannot be tought at the same level. Surely there should be more than 5 bright children in a class of 35?

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FedUpWithSchools · 17/03/2011 13:05

Seeker, 2 of the 4 schools we've seen said DS will have to sit an exam to join, but another 2 were prepared to take him in at the level he is now and to coach him to a higher standard. So no, the 2 out of 4 were not selective at all.

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Pagwatch · 17/03/2011 13:05

Op. I think that you are being far too charmed by initial appearances.

I have two children in private schools but I regard your post as massively rose tinted.

I think all my dcs schools are fantastic. But once your child is there everyday you will see nothing is as perfect as presented.

lovecheese · 17/03/2011 13:06

Seconding seeker.

FedUpWithSchools · 17/03/2011 13:06

But SarkyLady, if a child is in a middle set, what chance he'll get at 11+ exams?

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SoupDragon · 17/03/2011 13:06

"Thank you Fabi76! Please dont listen to people going on and on about "excellent" state schools. The way I see it the child will get a great education in a state school as long as he is in a top set."

Utter nonsense. The child will get a great education in a state school provided it is an excellent school. Yours clearly isn't.

Kitsilano · 17/03/2011 13:07

Some state schools can have the opposite problem - teacher spending time with the pupils that are struggling, leaving the more able ones to it because they've reached the minimum required standard already...

FedUpWithSchools · 17/03/2011 13:08

I know what you mean Pagwatch, but results speak for themselves. Also 2 of the schools we've seen appear in the top of Sunday Schools "best schools guide", we also looked at the attainment tables and they are all excellent, and much better than DS's "outstanding" primary. Also music, French and drama are tought at a much higher standard.

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Pagwatch · 17/03/2011 13:08

They probably all are selective. Unless they have said that
If your dc does not catch up via the coaching then they will not be asked to leave?
Have they said that?

crunchbag · 17/03/2011 13:09

FedUp what happens if your son can's keep up with the level being taught or the school fails to 'coach him to a higher standard'?

seeker · 17/03/2011 13:09

They are selective, you know. Parental wealth is a very powerful indicator of academic success. As is the sort of parental involvement that looks round schools, visits and makes decisions about the best place for a child to go.

FedUpWithSchools · 17/03/2011 13:09

SoupDragon, could you please name one state school that gets 90% of students to grammar school? Because I cant...

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FedUpWithSchools · 17/03/2011 13:11

Crunchbag, two (non-selective) schools said that they'll give extra coaching during/after school in subjects that the child is struggling with. The selective schools said that the parents will be called in and told if their child is not a grammar school material, and will have to look for a plan B.

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seeker · 17/03/2011 13:11

And be very wary of a` school that doesn't have an entrance exam, but makes promises about 'coaching to a high standard" Get proof. And committment in writing. And a clear statement of what they are offering, how they will achieve it - and what will happen if ds doesn;t get to that "high standard"

Pagwatch · 17/03/2011 13:11

That's great.

But you do realise that great schools with great academic records can have problems with
Bullying
Too much pressure
Drugs
Cliques
Etc etc etc

My ds went to a school at about thirty in the top schools guides. We had to move him. The head of pe was a bullying twat. The girls were preferred to the boys and bullying was ignored.

skybluepearl · 17/03/2011 13:12

So your new school doesn't differentiate? All students get the same work and nobody gets exactly what they need. It doesn't sound right that the more able aren't stretched and the less able get left behind.

At my sons school they are taught in abliltiy groups but there is alot of movement between sets. It really works as i know my son is doing work suited to his ablilty.

Pagwatch · 17/03/2011 13:13

Look. I have two kids in fantastic private school and their education is everything I would wish for.
But pretending every school in the top fifty schools guides = nirvana is just silly. And annoying.

FedUpWithSchools · 17/03/2011 13:21

Well, bullying, drugs etc can happen at any school. Though to be honest cant imagine drugs in year 4. But surely a class of 16 and daily homework, together with 11+ tutoring will give a better chance than a state school "middle set"?

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Mangomargarita · 17/03/2011 13:22

FedUpWithSchools - I am also fed up with my daughters school, but she goes to a private school. Yes it does have a high percentage of children going to grammar school, but it is such a joyless place- tonnes of homework, tests, teachers who so uninspiring. She is a bright girl, but has been turned off learning as there is no fun in the class-room, just loads of work pitched at a high-level.
Also which area are you in? A 90% pass-rate to a grammar is very rare in for example the London/herts area unless the children do additional tutoring(which the private schools don't tell you about, but is very widespread).
I'm glad that you are happy with your new choice of school, but like the others have said, it really isn't as simple as private always being better than state.

FedUpWithSchools · 17/03/2011 13:23

We are in the North.

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