Private schools, wow what a difference! (Year 4)

[FedUpWithSchools]

Got very disillusioned with DS?s ?outstanding? primary. First alarm bells started to ring in year 3, when every single day he?ll bring a drawing or a robot made of cardboard or a car made of boxes, you get the picture while he hardly got any homework. I tried talking to his teacher about it, but she was always very reassuring and said he is doing fine. I am a foreigner, so was not so familiar with a UK education system and thought the teacher knows what she is doing. Then in year 4 I found out about sets. Apparently my son is in a middle set for everything. According to teacher, he got an ability to be in a top set in a different class, but because his class is overall ?exceptionally bright?, the top set is working at a level of year 5, or even sometimes year 6. My son complains that on days that they got math (and they don?t do math every day), bottom set gets to ?play? on PCs ? they do educational games, middle set gets work to do on their own, and the teacher sits with the top set (5 kids out of a class of 35) and teaches them. If my son or anybody else gets ?stuck? on their work, the teacher with just get very stressed and will tell him in a raised voice just to get on with his work or read a book or draw something if he is finished. Bottom set gets a ?special? teacher to work with them a few times a week during literacy and math lessons. Children never move between sets. Sometimes my son finishes his work quickly and asks to listen or join with the top set, but teacher always gets annoyed and sends him back to his table.

I had a parents meeting with the teacher a few weeks ago, and raised all my concerns. I am very worried about the amount of stuff he is learning at school, as the 11+ is looming and only the top 5 kids are getting sufficient tutoring to pass the exam. The teacher agreed with me, and hinted that it will benefit my son to get a tutor or even better a private school. So off we went to look for a private. And all I can say is wow! We visited 4 schools in total. Class sizes vary from 16 to 22; 2 schools were selective, another 2 are not. But all 4 of the schools had a grammar pass rate between 90% and 85%. My son?s school sends around 6 kids out of 70 each year, so 3 kids per class. In all private schools that we visited all kids are taught by the same teacher at the same level. They also sit on their own desks facing the teacher, not in groups. Children get books for each subject, so the parent knows exactly what is covered at school on each given day, and will be able to go over it at home if needed. There is also an hour of homework every day and in year 5 schools run ?summer schools? to coach for 11+ exams. Some schools also had longer days in year 5 to cover the material quicker and start preparing for 11+ earlier in the year.

To be honest, the difference of standards and attainment really shocked me. How do they manage to teach every single kid in a classroom to the same level when a state school claims its impossible? Why state school cant just teach all kids at the same level, with kids all sitting and listening to the teacher instead of sitting in groups around round tables, sometimes with their backs to the blackboard? I really don?t get it. We are moving our son next week to a new school, wish I knew about the differences earlier, feeling guilty now for denying him a proper education for so many years.

So you think since 2002 the psychology laws had changed so much that kids in lower groups are not suffering from a low self esteem?

The more important to make the right choice but at the moment you seem to be blinded by the 'empty' promises the schools are making. Just make sure your son is not being let down if he doesn't pass the exam. And that a plan B doesn't mean finding yet another school.

I am off on the school run :)

Giddy, we got 5 grammar schools. He is excellent with VR and NVR, and works at 11 year old level. He had a reading age of 11 at SATs in year 2. All he need is help with math and english, but he is getting the stuff very quickly, so there is a hope.

"But how is it fare for a child to be hold back for the rest of his life because he did not achieve well when he was 4?"
How fair is it that a child would be held back for the rest of their life because they did not achieve well on one day aged 11? Serious question... and I am a supporter of grammar schools btw.

Many things in life are unfair though!

More importantly though please, please do be careful about cutting back his activities and DS/Ipod usage etc- he will see educational work as a punishment if you do this. One thing all the fee-paying schools we looked at emphasised was the love of learning they instilled in the children- that even when work was difficult (or actually especially when work was difficult) one should enjoy doing it, enjoy extending onesself, and developing in all areas. They all offered a large number of after school activities, in sports, music, dance, drama etc- education is not just about numeracy and literacy.

Plus- I would look for schools not teaching all children at the same level, rather a good school (regardless of fees or no) would be teaching children at their own level, and stretching all of them - academically able or not.

Hi CaptainNancy, thank you for your kind post! The school offers a lot of activities during the day (they study till 4 pm), including drama, musical instruments, singing, all kids get a chance to represent the school in various sports, they do tennis, lacrosse, basketball, cricket and swimming. All included in the fees. So there is a lot of stuff apart from the studying. All kids are expected to achieve level 5 by the end of year 4, but more able are getting stretched (to be honest not sure how, the head of the school did mention it, but I was not very interested as just want DS to catch up for now). He went to school for an "assesment" day, but did not sit a formal exam like in the other 2 selective schools.

It's not possible to get all kids to a level 5 by the end of year 4. They only way you can do that is by some form of selection.

Probably by asking kids to leave who aren't going to achieve that. Very easy to hush and sweep under the carpet that X left because he was asked to rather than for any other reason....

Sounds like private is the way for you to go though.

Well, not sure re selection, my son said he had to take part in the maths and literacy lessons and then the head teacher listened to him reading. He struggled a bit with maths as he had not covered it at his school yet and his creative writing is not up to scratch, but the head feels it can be covered during the next term and summer holidays and he expects him to level out by the start of the year 5, when the serious work begins. In the selective schools we were told he?ll have to sit an exam in mental maths, VR and NVR and write an essay. So we thought there was no point in applying anyway.

If he's done a test then there is selection. He passed the test.

Sure the pass mark is lower than the selective schools, but there was still a test.

If it wasn't possible to fail the test, they wouldn't do it.....

But like I said, they can always accept your son now - and then boot him out in Y5 'when the serious work begins'

or be like my sister's school who accepted the rich thick girl, got Daddy's money for the library and then invited her to leave before exams that would have ruined their record!

FedUp, I didn't realise you had already accepted a place for ds at one of the schools, I thought you were still in the selection process.

I hope it works out well for your son and please let him relax over the Easter holidays :)

They like to see where the children are at Indigo, it's not a selection test (well, maybe, if a child is too far behind they may suggest an alternative school)

OP - My DS is at a non-selective Prep. But it IS selective at least in terms of behaviour and parental attitude isn't it? Even if it doesn't say so. When my DS joined he had to do the same sort of day that you mention above.

Teacher is able to teach the whole class as there are no trouble-makers and if there are; they are dealt with swiftly and sharply. That is a very important difference between state/private to me. And of course work is differentiated between pupils, even in a whole class setting - that's what good teachers anywhere do.

Hope you're both happy with it.

Know this thread is about private schooling in the main, but just picking up on the 'middle streaming' thing.

l have to agree that it seems from year one children are being grouped according to ability based on grades ie: 1a, b,c, 2 c etc etc.

From my own experience my DD is completing key stage 2 work books at home with relative ease, but has been graded as middle of the road in terms of ability at school, so for whatever reason has not demonstrated enough evidence at school of this knowledge.

If you are not then in the higher end of the class how do you ever catch up ? and don't they start to pull away faster because they are given ability appropriate work ?

cheese - it's just a fact of life that some people find academic work easier than others. Why should everyone be expected to reach the same high levels? It's just not feasible!

Even if your dd is completing KS2 maths books at home, it is still possible that some of the children in her class are more able than her, and she may never catch up with them.

Surely she is being given ability-appropriate work if, as you say, 'from year one children are being grouped according to ability'.

Cheese, both my children have moved sets over the years, shouldn't be impossible in a well taught class. In fact, my ds (now in Yr 6) would be perfectly capable of moving up in maths, the teacher has given very clear indications since Yr 5 of what he would need to do to be able to cope with work in the next set (basically learn his times tables so he can apply them to other calculations). Unfortunately ds has a massive chip on his shoulder and thinks it unfair that he should have to work harder than his (gifted and talented) friend to get the same result, so I don't see it happening any time soon

Stoat, what l did not say is looking at the criteria required for the level she is at (1b) and the next few up, l know she knows this stuff, but frustratingly its not being noticed at school.

Therefore i do not think she is being given ability appropriate work, and her peers which are, are able to pull away.

At this stage she is wanting to do more at home, hence my providing workbooks at home and looking myself into what the criteria for different grades are.

There is no point just working on KS2 level stuff when you have another academic year, and whats left of this one in KS1 and you haven't ticked all of the boxes yet.

Is she in Y1 or 2, cheese?
What can she do that isn't being noticed?

Cory, thanks for that, as dd is my first through the system l have no experience of what could/may happen regarding sets.

l know it seems way early to be thinking age 16 outcomes, and teachers try to steer you away from just looking at the grade and not the progress .... but you cannot get away from the fact that grades if not wholly accurate can limit potential from the outset.

She is YR1. As an example if you look at the criteria for level one maths, its mostly based around numbers up to ten, including counting upwards, backwards, basic addition and subtraction , using symbols etc etc.

Level two ups that level of knowledge to much larger numbers, 100 is quoted and starts to look at sequences and patterns, odd and even numbers, you get the drift.

DD has been working on books at home for around a year without my help which easily cover level 2 and probably a bit more. She is now looking at times tables.

l think the issue is probably more confidence and not being one of the verbally communicative ones. There are some big characters in her class.

The teacher plus TAs are looking for evidence of criteria being met, understood and applied. As this is not done on a formal test basis l guess its from observation in class and group work. l cannot figure out why she would not volunteer answers or demonstrate understanding. Have to add she is apparently very well behaved and attentive in class.

Why state school cant just teach all kids at the same level? Because all children aren't the same, with the same learning styles and the same learning needs
with kids all sitting and listening to the teacher Because not all children learn by listening, some need to be active learners. Teaching this way passive way discriminates against children with different learning styles.
I'm glad the change in school worked for the OP's child, but private isn't always best. When I was training (Oxbridge) the weakest students (who had scraped a pass on teaching practice) often ended up with jobs in private schools, with the best with outstanding teaching practice references and first class degrees ended up with state sector jobs. I see this pattern repeating itself with the trainee teachers I have had in my class over the years.
Yes you get smaller classes and often better resources, but there are sometimes other draw backs.

cheese - the crucial L1 to L2 jump is understanding of place value.

Fedup, 70% of dd's state primary (rural location) got into grammar. Plus a few scholarships to top public schools. Happened to be a pretty good year group. Not bad for a 1 form entry non selective school however you look at it. Far better in dd's year than local prep schools.

Good luck FedUp - hope your DC settles in well

BTW dd3 (Y2) is in a class with a great teacher. There are a lot of children in there easily L3. They are pushed and encouraged to achieve to the best of their ability. Oh yes, school is also good at sports. I am a teacher and would have chosen private if required, but there are so many kids round here in the prep schools with parents who see it as a trophy rather than an educational advantage that it's not for us. I prefer parents to say "we were happy" rather than "we was happy". "they did well" rather than "they done good". Particularly if I'm paying. I do realise it's a very local thing though. I was privately educated and thank my parents for the opportunity.