"punishment" in year 1

[makemineaginandtonic]

DD is not settling into Yr1 particularly well and especially dislikes "carpet time" because it's boring and her bum goes numb. Today she was talking (actually reciting a poem from a book she borrowed from school!) during carpet time and as a result was delayed going out to play time and had to spend extra time on the carpet.

I really don't agree with "punishments" such as this, especially when it is keeping her from a physical activity which might actually calm her down and make it easier to sit still!

What other experiences of "punishments" are out there?

should I talk to the teacher and tell her what I think?

Teachers drink anything.
I'm still well-stocked from the summer tributes from parents grateful that I hadn't destroyed and consumed their young.

Can't stand cider personally!

Now you're back, please can you explain what you would have liked your dd's teacher to do? Genuine question.

I'd love the OP to answer my question asked earlier - how would you feel if your dd came home and said that she hadn't enjoyed a lesson because another child was talking.

lol igitur! You either have a chip on your shoulder (not accepted for that midday assistant post maybe?) or you are a pro-Steiner infiltrator! You really have NO idea of what goes on in the classroom do you, go on - admit it!

If you must know the poem was Us Two by A A Milne which talks a lot about Pooh which was probably why it was so unwelcome. She wasn't shouting it, merely repeating a few lines to herself under her breath. As asked by a few posters, if it had been me I would have asked DD to share the poem and have the opportunity to get it out in the open if you like. IF she had then continued I would have asked her to sit away from the group. At the age of 5 I don't think there's much more you can do than that.

I agree with the poster who said talk to the teacher about her not settling in well. I wouldn't personally talk to her over one punishment that seems a bit harsh - if it becomes a continual problem then maybe you need to have a chat to clarify exactly what is happening and how they are responding. As others have said, they probably didn't immediately just keep her back at playtime, they would have surely asked her to be quiet first and she presumably ignored their requests.

Thing is, whenever your child is being looked after by anyone else - no matter what the situation, they are going to handle things differently to you. They are going to 'punish' in their own way and not yours. Especially when they have a whole class full of kids to deal with.

Oh and I think the idea of telling the teacher what you think probably got everyone's back up - it gives the impression you're going to lay into her/him. I'm sure that's not the case is it?!

OP - I thnk that the approach to class discipline in Yr 1 can be a bit confronting - I was taken aback at the way small children are in a very exacting system. But then I saw how quickly they do get the hang of not talking when they are supposed to not talk..and how that shows NO sign of making them permanently 'cowed' when they are allowed to talk! If teachers didn't get this established quickly, I do think all classroom activity would be hopeless. They do enjoy focussed activity, and progression, and learning, more so if they are in the swing rather than in their own world chattering to themselves.

I suspect that the school also use lots of postive affirmation - smiley faces on the board etc. In DS's school the Head peppers assembly with 'well done, XXX, sitting very nicely today' etc etc - very public praise.

Greensleeves is wise about helping your dd learn from this.

Ah, another education thread for you to pile in and moan about teachers, Greensleeves. I don't think anyone has been unpleasant. However, I do think you are being sanctimonious (again).

No! makemineaginandtonic the fact the poem was about Pooh is totally irrelevant Your child should have been listening but she wasn't!

igitur - my DD is in a class of 15. There is no way the teachers would have accepted chatting through carpet time in Y1 any more than the class teacher would in the Y1 workin now where there are 39 children.

It is rude to talk over the top of others and to disrupt the learning of other chilren. It doesn;t matter whether the child is dirupting 14 others or 29 others.

Consequences and sanctions would, IME, happen in both scenarios.

OP - this has to be a wind up.
Your DD disrupted teaching time. She is now Yr1 so after a year of school she must understand the consequences of talking over the teacher.
What do you mean about the teachers 'accent'?
If you think the educational system is that bad take her out. There will be alot more 'punishments' she will come across in her school career.
I'm off for a Pinot Grigio anyone want to join me?

OP - how do you know they didn't take that approach but she continued anyway so further sanctions were needed?

Problem with your idea of getting her to share the poem is that they do try and limit carpet time at this age. What about all the other kids who find it boring? They would end up having to sit still and quiet for even longer.

you know what, if my kid was trying to learn to read, and the teacher was teaching them letter sounds, but instead they had to sit there while one boastful child wanted to recite a poem while they all sat there as her audience, I'd actually feel quite peed off. As for her sitting elsewhere, well, what would happen if every kid who felt too good to listen to the teacher was merely invited to sit 'elsewhere' (where?) and get on with their chattering?

Sorry MrsGravy it's the fact that the OP thinks it's OK for her child to recite poems during a lesson that is the issue

Yes, OP, maybe the teacher should have interrupted the whole class to focus solely on your DD. And then maybe the teacher could have focussed solely on another child who was also disrupting the 'lesson'. And then it would be the end of carpet time, and the other 28 children would have been ignored.

But a least your DD would have got the attention she wanted, so that's okay.

And I tell you what, I bet my kids would have found listening to your precious darling lisping her way through AA Milne a fuck of a lot more boring that listening to the teacher. And the next day all the othe offspring of the pushy mums would expect to take centre stage too. The horror! The horror!

"As asked by a few posters, if it had been me I would have asked DD to share the poem and have the opportunity to get it out in the open if you like. "

You'd have done this right int he middle of a numeracy lesson then? Or in a phonics session? How about whilst discussing RE, Science, etc.

If it was sharing time or talking about what we like/do, maybe even in PHSE - then it may well be appropriate - but probably not immediatey if others were talking and having their turn.

The poem it was is irrelevant.

OP- your suggestion of the teacher allowing your DD to share the poem to 'get it out in the open' makes me think you have never spent time in an infant classroom.
If the children were all allowed to share their thoughts/plans/ideas at will nothing would ever get done.
I'm sure it would be fascinating to hear about your DD's poem/Billy's rabbit/Jane's poorly toenail/Ramona's holiday etc etc but it wasn't the correct time.

Getting her to tell it had she been on her own with you - fine. If teachers allowed carpet time to be full of children being allowed to tell everything they were chatting about / reciting it would take all morning. More interruption than interrupted! AND the kids would v quickly catch on. They have to learn: silence means silence.

If you don't want that fo your child, then maybe you will need to home educate. But it's interesting that igitur suggests Steiner schools, where children are free to be who they are and sort out their own karma...bullied / bullies...

Greensleeves - again? Surely not?

Igitur - I'm quite sure all of those teachers present on this thread are far more intelligent and less ignorant socially able than you. If you can't teach, slag them off, eh?

OP - you really should consider home ed or Steiner. DD won't get very far if you complain every time something happens that she doesn't like in school.

I can see that the OP feels proud that her DD can recite a poem and should have been able to share her knowledge with the class.

But,

Time is precious in the daytime. The teacher has to cover a lot of topics in a day and has a set timetable to achieve her targets. A few minutes wasted here, a few minutes there, and the whole timetable is screwed up. And she still has to complete her timetable.

So what should she do.

May be keep the WHOLE CLASS in at playtime so that the teacher can complete her timetable, because she has to talk to her pupils and teach a particular subject.

I am sure that all the other pupils will be pleased to miss their playground because they had to listen to someone recite a poem.

I think the message is, There is a TIme and Place for Everything. Reciting Poetry can be done at the appropriate time, discussion time, circle time, etc, but NOT when the teacher needs to teach all her pupils about a subject.

Talking during carpet time is extremely disrupting, because once one child starts, so do others and then the whole session is a waste of time.

I doubt if any teacher would "punish" a child by making them stay in on the carpet for a few minutes without plenty of warning and opportunities for a child to rectify their disruptive behaviour. Perhaps the question should be...what led up to this? I doubt very much it was one incident of poetry reading under the breath. Unfortunately I doubt teachers have the time to listen to 30 children reciting poetry. I expect the teacher was trying to teach. And I suspect some of the children at least were trying to learn.

I love the ideal of children being constantly engaged and thriving in their education but I'm confident that the reality is that for each child, there are things that they are expected to do/learn that bore them. I tell my children to suck it up...you can't always enjoy everything and one of the most important things I want my children to learn is respect. Respect for their teachers and respect for the other children who want to learn. Sometimes they will be disruptive and be "punished", sometimes it may even seem unfair punishment, but some things you just need to let go. For the rare times when my children feel slighted/unfairly punished, I can think of a hundred times when they have been encouraged, built up, given opportunities and generally had a wonderful experience thanks to dedicated teachers (who let's face it can't pander to every single child all of the time).

I'd just like to stick up for teachers (and no I'm not one!!) who quite frankly have to jump through enough hoops trying to educate our DCs without this sort of attitude. And yes, maybe we don't agree with everything they do but let's face it....we're not the teachers, so let them get on with their job and support them in it. And let your children know you support their teachers!! Undermining the teachers, undermines your childs education.

packs away soapbox and heads for the kettle....

I can see that the OP feels proud that her DD can recite a poem and should have been able to share her knowledge with the class.

But,

Time is precious in the daytime. The teacher has to cover a lot of topics in a day and has a set timetable to achieve her targets. A few minutes wasted here, a few minutes there, and the whole timetable is screwed up. And she still has to complete her timetable.

So what should she do.

May be keep the WHOLE CLASS in at playtime so that the teacher can complete her timetable, because she has to talk to her pupils and teach a particular subject.

I am sure that all the other pupils will be pleased to miss their playground because they had to listen to someone recite a poem.

I think the message is, There is a TIme and Place for Everything. Reciting Poetry can be done at the appropriate time, discussion time, circle time, etc, but NOT when the teacher needs to teach all her pupils about a subject.

Talking during carpet time is extremely disrupting, because once one child starts, so do others and then the whole session is a waste of time.

I swore I wouldn't reply again but I am really upset by the number of posts to my message that are aggressive or negative, or glib and sarcastic! I genuinely felt upset that my DD hadn't been able to go out to play as that's her favourite time at school and because she has been finding it difficult to settle I felt that this was particularly harsh on her.

Under no circumstances do I think she should be allowed to speak on the carpet or disobey the teacher in any way. However, i do think that children need to be considered for their particular merits/problems and especially at the start of the school year this taken into consideration when dealing with any bad behaviour. I feel uncomfortable with a one size fits all approach. I certainly won't seek any comfort from mumsnet again!

Thanks for sharing your suggestion OP, but I think everyone else has already said what I would have said!

This was the point I was trying to make earlier, everyone thinks they know how easy it would be to keep discipline, but until you've done it you have no idea!

And I speak as a KS2 teacher - hats off and huge respect to those who teach in KS1!