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Preppers

Prepping for a pandemic...6

999 replies

wheresmymojo · 24/02/2020 16:00

6th thread on prepping for a pandemic and following the risk of a COVID pandemic.

Anxiety

As Preppers we tend to look at a reasonable worst case scenario to plan for. Everyone is welcome on the thread but if you find it makes you anxious be kind to yourself and think about sticking to once daily updates from the BBC or similar Thanks

General COVID Info

The estimated replication rate is R= 2 to 4 based on latest expert estimates. This means each infected person spreads the virus to between 2 and 4 people. Experts estimate that, unchecked, it could infect 60% of the population.

Around 15-20% of cases are thought to be severe - that is resulting in the need for hospitalisation. Around 3-5% requiring ventilation.

The estimated mortality rate is around 1-2% at the moment (compared to 0.01-0.1% for flu). This may change as it is very difficult to estimate mortality.

Children tend to have milder symptoms. Those over 60 with underlying health issues and a history of smoking are more likely to be severe (although not exclusively this type of person).

Spread of COVID

It is estimated that the average incubation period is 3-5 days but can be as long as 24 days.

It can be spread with no symptoms.

It can be spread via droplet (cough/sneeze), aerosol (breathing same air in very close quarters), bodily fluids, fecal/oral route and formites (via surfaces, up to 28 days in the right circumstances but up to 3-5 days in more typical circumstances).

Updates

As this is a novel virus and knowledge is constantly being updated - I will post updates as they become available with links to source.

I am not a medical expert so any opinions or conjecture of my own should be taken with a pinch of salt!

Prepping Scenarios

Most of us are prepping for the following situations:

  • Wanting to stay indoors for 2-4 weeks + in case of a local outbreak / schools being closed
  • Potentially being ill with a flu type illness lasting 2-3 weeks with one or more of the household having the illness
  • Having to take a family member to hospital for COVID or any other reason during an outbreak

Prepping Items

Threads 1&2 have lists of things to think about to prep for the first scenario as do the Brexit prepping threads.

Main differences/additions to something like the Brexit list are:

  • Face masks if you can get them for any trips you have to make in public during an outbreak. These don't offer full protection and cannot be 100% relied upon but are probably better than nothing if you make sure you wear them correctly and dispose of them correctly. N95 masks are best but expensive and harder to wear, surgical face masks are second best. Dust masks are not going to help.
  • Hand sanitiser needs to be 60% or more alcohol content
  • Dettol / bleach / Miltons to disinfect. Not all disinfectants work but these three do
  • Plenty of at home/over counter treatments for flu type symptoms should you need to treat at home
  • Tissues (lots of) should you catch the virus
  • Think about meals that are easy to cook and eat should you be ill or both parents be ill at the same time (soup for example)
  • For a potential hospital trip you may want to prep a 'go bag' should you need to take someone to hospital with the virus (or anything else) during an outbreak. See Thread 1&2 for examples of what people are packing
  • Frequent and thorough hand washing, not touching your face and social distancing (no handshakes, hugs, etc) are some of the most effective ways to stay virus free

Other Thoughts

India have announced that they are stopping exports of some antibiotics, hormone treatments and vitamin supplements as they rely on China for raw materials.

Many factories that supplied fibre for use in sanitary towels and tampons are being diverted to manufacture face masks. Consider stocking up or changing to sustainable items (cloth STs, mooncup, period pants)

OP posts:
Thread gallery
18
TenShortStories · 24/02/2020 16:32

I was thinking about finely chopping up carrots, onions and celery and freezing batches to fry and add to all my pasta and tinned tomatoes when I cook them. I use them fresh most weeks so not a crazy thing to prep as they will get eaten regardless.

PurpleCalm · 24/02/2020 16:33

Today I baked a load of potatoes ready to freeze - they reheat (from frozen) in the microwave really well.

GorkyMcPorky · 24/02/2020 16:35

There hasn't been asked about it from either my DCs' school or my own, still.

AutumnCrow · 24/02/2020 16:36

@Twixes if you can't prep and freeze vegetables, cold and dry is usually best as a rule of thumb re storage.

MissusMaker · 24/02/2020 16:37

I'm testing out Idahoan potatoes tonight and if we like it I will buy a few packs for the stash. DH hates smash etc with a passion so I'm not going to tell him till afterwards so that he gives it a fair shot 😂😂😂

RedLentilYellowLentil · 24/02/2020 16:39

@ofwarren DC has just come home and told me. The self-isolating child is back today and told everyone. Because of half-term they've been in quarantine for 3 weeks so hopefully that's enough to be fairly sure all is well, although there seems to be anecdotal evidence that kids are more likely to be asymptomatic carriers. Angry

MotherOfDragonite · 24/02/2020 16:39

Checking in.

NebbiaZanzare · 24/02/2020 16:44

I saw 7 deaths and then it dropped to 6 despite the new death remaining.

The gist I got that one of the previous deaths has been removed from the list. Because while the patient did have CV, CV was not responsible for their death. I guess they were in such bad shape that death was inevitable and CV didn't hasten it.

I think it was one of the oncology patients. I'll go back and see if I can find the article again. Pretty sure it was in La Repubblica.

Plantherd · 24/02/2020 16:47

Been a lurker for a while! Thank you to everyone who has posted, been incredibly helpful.
Just wondering if its OK to store food items in the attic? Currently have tins or glass on shelves and anything plastic or cardboard stored in plastic tubs with lids..

wheresmymojo · 24/02/2020 16:50

So I've just had a better look at what was going on with swine flu and I think this shows that there definitely is a difference with this virus. Here are some example news reports...

Date not known but early on
Mexico - 7 confirmed deaths from 2,000 hospitalised (but not confirmed, just have flu like symptoms). Total cases unknown.

US - 64 cases, 5 hospitalised, no deaths

https://edition.cnn.com/2009/HEALTH/04/28/swine.flu.mexico/index.html

25th April 2009
1004 cases, 70 dead (6.9% CFR)

[[https://amp.theguardian.com/world/2009/apr/25/swine-flu-mexico
amp.theguardian.com/world/2009/apr/25/swine-flu-mexico]]

29th April 2009
2500 cases, 7 confirmed deaths but up to 159 deaths suspected

US still has 64 cases, no deaths

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/world/americas/8023820.stm

30th April 2009
US cases up to 95, 1 death
[[https://www.google.co.uk/amp/s/www.latimes.com/archives/la-xpm-2009-apr-30-sci-swine-flu30-story.html%3f_amp=true
www.google.co.uk/amp/s/www.latimes.com/archives/la-xpm-2009-apr-30-sci-swine-flu30-story.html%3f_amp=true]]

2nd May 2009
Already starts dying down in Mexico, new cases popping up in Europe but no deaths
[[https://edition.cnn.com/2009/HEALTH/04/28/swine.flu.mexico/index.html
edition.cnn.com/2009/HEALTH/04/28/swine.flu.mexico/index.html]]

5th May 2009
Already being noted that it is less severe in terms of mortality than originally thought. Confirmed as being ‘mild’ in most cases.

Confirms treatment of tamiflu to be sent to 72 nations.

26 deaths in Mexico
400 cases, 2nd death in US.
1300 cases in 22 countries
[[https://www.google.co.uk/amp/s/amp.france24.com/en/20090505-us-reports-second-swine-flu-death-
www.google.co.uk/amp/s/amp.france24.com/en/20090505-us-reports-second-swine-flu-death-]]

OP posts:
FelicityFebruary · 24/02/2020 16:53

My memories of swine flu are of a young couple coming back ill from holiday with it but there being no spread from them. So not so easily transmissible. Then much later as it was circulating there was a school trip where it ran rife. So very much spreading among and making teens demonstrably ill.

I just googled the couple and one friend at least did catch it on a night out with the man! Still there was not the level of passing on we have seen with asymptomatic Brighton Man. The friend who acquired the swine flu infection in UK described being given a false negative result when tested as a contact and so throwing his birthday party with all his family round! None of them appeared to have caught it despite plenty of comings and goings.

LittleSwede · 24/02/2020 16:53

Thanks for new threadwheresmymojo!

teta · 24/02/2020 16:53

Thanks for the new thread.

FourTeaFallOut · 24/02/2020 16:53

I bought the Dettol laundry liquid. I stood there for ages working out how bad things would have to be before I would countenance tackling the logistics involved in soaking the mountains of laundry in this house for two hours before it went in the washing machine. I mean, nobody had to manage this shit in wwz or The Road.

NaturalBornWoman · 24/02/2020 16:53

So I'm challenging myself now on whether this could turn out to be another 'swine flu' (so a small number of deaths, nothing to worry about for 99.98% of people).

I'm really hazy on how it was, all I can really remember is people having to get Tamiflu. I know it was really bad for some people but I don't have any recollection of being afraid or of seeing people dressed in full hazmat gear like they are now. When you see some reports on the news it looks like they're dealing with Ebola. I saw some in Korea who appeared to be wearing breathing apparatus to wheel someone on a stretcher who was also enclosed in a protective tube. It's terrifying.

Legoandloldolls · 24/02/2020 16:54

I'm very happy. I went to Costco today so have to depressing job of splitting up the packs of things I got to freeze. I caved and bought 4 masks. 2FP3 one and two P2 just in case it becomes mandatory to leave the house in a lock down. I also bought paint stripper and protective gloves so I can strip and sand some second hand furniture I have been avoiding.

I just kept noticing the sheer amount of people coughing every where. There was also a Chinese girl looking at masks in B&q - it's a university town near us. That makes it feel real.

It is a bit weird that its truly global but it doesn't seem.like a widly perceived threat. Mind you some people still dont believe in global warming either

wheresmymojo · 24/02/2020 16:54

^ So basically there was a very brief period around end of April where people would have been concerned as the mortality rate seemed high but it wasn't clear because the total number of cases wasn't clear.

But by 3-4 weeks later although it is spreading quickly they are already confirming that it is 'mild' in the vast majority of cases and that the mortality rate is much lower than they initially feared. The number of cases are going up but deaths outside of Mexico are very few (only 2 confirmed). Plus they're already sending a treatment (Tamiflu) out.

It had basically died down in Mexico only a couple of weeks after alarm bells went off. Mexico did close some schools and cancel some public gatherings but there were no lockdowns.

In conclusion, I can see why I shrugged my shoulders at the whole thing in a way that I'm not right now.

OP posts:
RedLentilYellowLentil · 24/02/2020 16:56

I'm loving this, from No 10 this afternoon: "We will be led by the advice from public health and medical experts and will take steps which they feel are required to best protect the British public."

This is from the same people who told us the country had "had enough of experts".

NebbiaZanzare · 24/02/2020 16:57

Got it, La Repubblica

Non è dovuta, invece, al coronavirus, come si era pensato in un primo momento, la morte agli Spedali civili di Brescia di una donna di Crema che era stata trasferita ieri. Si tratta di una paziente oncologica e il quadro clinico era già compromesso.

Rough translation ... The death of the lady from Crema who was transferred to Spedali Civili Hospital in Brescia yesterday was not in fact caused by CV as 1st thought. She was an oncology patient and her clinical state was already compromised.

OK that's weird. The first time I read it I thought there was a line included saying she tested positive, so she died WITH CV, but not FROM CV. But it's not there now. Either they edited it cos they have new information, aren't sure of their information ...or my memory muddled different cases and it was never there.

So I guess it's possible we'll learn later that she did not in fact have CV.

FelicityFebruary · 24/02/2020 17:00

Boris is not the worrying type.

EnidBlyton · 24/02/2020 17:05

thanks the thread

wheresmymojo · 24/02/2020 17:05

Also swine flu had a mortality rate of 0.02%

If we use Italy's numbers as we know they are doing a lot of testing and should be catching even people with reasonably mild/no symptoms they are at 2.7% today but with another 23 in serious/critical state.

So although it's hard to estimate mortality while it's ongoing it does seem that 2-3% mortality is about the best estimate which is the same as 1918 Spanish Flu.

OP posts:
wheresmymojo · 24/02/2020 17:06

I just like to challenge myself now and then when other people are 'meh, haven't even been following it' or 'it's just like swine flu'...

Every time I challenge myself the evidence says, no it isn't like swine flu.

Happy to be challenged if people think I'm over-egging things.

OP posts:
AlohaMolly · 24/02/2020 17:11

Re chopping and freezing fresh veg, I regularly do that with carrots and broccoli as we end up going away regularly with short notice, and never want to waste them! As long as you cook from frozen they’re fine.

Thanks for the new thread.

RedLentilYellowLentil · 24/02/2020 17:16

I don't have any recollection of being afraid or of seeing people dressed in full hazmat gear like they are now

I had swine flu in 2009, about May time. I didn't get Tamiflu as they'd run out here. I remember feeling completely shocking, far far worse than ordinary flu. I had to sleep on the sofa because I couldn't manage stairs.

I had a few days of feeling appalling in myself, and then the following morning, which was a Saturday, I woke up with a really, really high temperature. I don't remember that much about it, but I was raving about being in Paris apparently (I wasn't - not even near) and DH was really worried and called the out of hours service for advice. The duty doctor they sent out arrived in a blue hazmat-style suit with a helmet, and came inside just long enough to take a history and swab me. When he left, he took it all off on our doorstep and left it in a clinical waste bag. That's about all I remember (presumably my visions of Paris were more compelling).

I ended up with pneumonia but wasn't ill enough to be hospitalised, just on two sorts of antibiotics, but I've been prone to secondary chest infections after flu ever since and always have a vaccination now - one reason I'm quite nervous about getting Covid-19.

I'd forgotten that until @NaturalBornWoman mentioned it.

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