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Pregnancy choices

This topic is for sharing experiences of pregnancy choices; to debate the ethics of termination, visit our Politics or Chat forums.

See all MNHQ comments on this thread

I wish it was easier to talk about terminations (apologies if upsetting)

393 replies

Thurlow · 07/09/2014 13:06

It feels like it is one of the great taboos and I don't dare talk about it IRL.

It's playing on my mind as I had a termination just under a year ago, so newborn babies are a bit of a touchy spot at the moment.

I am comfortable that we made the right decision but as a 30-something mum in a long term relationship, I know it is not a common choice nor it is one that many people might even understand or approve of.

But knowing it was the right decision doesn't mean I have completely forgotten about it or that I don't ever want to talk about it. I had the counseling that was offered, I am fine with my choice - but it's still there.

But I feel like I can't talk about. Sadly, many of my friends are going through problems TTCing right now, including some very, very tragic experiences. I know the most inappropriate thing I could ever say to them would be to tell them I terminated a potentially healthy baby.

99.9% of the time it is no problem but every now and again, people ask me when we might think about having another DC, or I feel I am in a conversation where I am essentially lying and dancing around the subject. I nearly mentioned it completely by accident to a very good friend the other day, a friend who would probably be very upset if she heard about it.

Why does it feel like such an awful taboo? Selfishly, why do I feel like I have to keep this secret from people? I feel like even those who wouldn't be personally hurt by the decision would probably be 'disappointed' that I made that decision, or perhaps think less of me.

It's even taken me a while to be open about this under my usual username. How bad is that?

I might be sensitive about this at the moment, but sometimes it feels as though "you made that decision, you live with it".

Is it just me? Does anyone else understand?

(Sorry this is a bit waffly...)

OP posts:
Thurlow · 09/09/2014 15:57

I still haven't had an email from HQ. I hope they are reading this thread.

OP posts:
Darksideofthemoon88 · 09/09/2014 16:02

Me too, Thurlow.

Labmonkey : I'm sorry Flowers. Hand-holding for tomorrow. Do you mind if I ask what's wrong with your DD? Don't feel you have to answer.

MewlingQuim · 09/09/2014 16:19

When I had my first termination aged 16 (pill failed) all the other women having terminations on the ward were mothers in their 30's. They were so lovely to me, neither my 'D'P nor my family were there,I still remember those kind ladies 25 years on Thanks but we were all told to shut up talking to each other about our terminations as there were women on the ward who were miscarrying Sad

I had my second termination aged 22 (coil failed). Lots of complications and ended up being rushed back into hospital at 3am in a pool of blood. Dr who examined me was fucking awful and cruel in hurting me and she said 'well you let your boyfriend in there so stop making a fuss about me' Angry

I had no regrets about my terminations as, at the time they were made, they were the best decisions but I then spent 10 years ttc with DH, having mcs and ivf. I felt a huge amount of guilt and regret about it then, but it is easy to forget how things were all those years ago. My life is so different now and a pregnancy would hold joy not fear, but that isn't how it was at the time.

I wish I could talk more about my experience in RL, but I'm glad that MN exists so I can waffle about it on here at least Smile

to all of you especially labmonkey

WinifredTheLostDenver · 09/09/2014 16:23

Christ, mewling, that's awful. Did you ever feel up to making a complaint?

LabMonkey · 09/09/2014 16:31

I'd rather not say - she would survive but would be severely disabled so I'm scared of peoples reactions. Ultimately we made what we believe is the best decision for both our girls. We live hundreds of miles from our families and would lose our house if I didn't work (main earner not ridiculous mortgage).

For our elder DD the impact on her life would be immense and for ever - we couldn't afford a third child so ultimately she would be solely responsible for her sister when we die. I have a colleague in this situation and while she adores her sister the stress and other issues are apparent.

For my baby DD the severity of her disability and associated health problems are unknown but she would never be independent. I know from experience how cruel our society can be and I do not want my baby to experience that pain. Her disabilities would mean she couldn't take care of herself or fight for her rights. I know that there are many many parents on MN with SN children and I admire them for their strength but I know that I would not cope.

Thank you all for your kind words - proof that this support is needed on MN. I was too scared to start my own thread but when I saw this one it seemed right.

WinifredTheLostDenver · 09/09/2014 16:33

Lab, well done on your strength for you and your family xx

Thurlow · 09/09/2014 16:46

Lab, I sincerely doubt that you are the only person to have made that decision. It's just that MN isn't currently reflecting that. But what a brave decision, and I admire and respect you so much for making it. You do have to consider everything when making a decision, and you also have to consider the effect on the family you already have. Nothing in life is ever simple.

I wish I knew how to make you feel less alone Sad But we are here, and listening, and I suspect many posters are also agreeing.

With much hand holding for tomorrow Flowers

OP posts:
PatricianOfAnkhMorpork · 09/09/2014 16:46

Lab I really don't have the words but will be thinking of you tomorrow

KateSMumsnet · 09/09/2014 17:00

Thank you for all your feedback - we'll be sure to digest it and have a think about the issues you've raised. Apologies in advance for a rather mammoth post.

First off, we need to clear something up: we absolutely think that Mumsnet is a place where women can (and indeed do) talk about their experiences of terminations, or about choices they need to make that may involve termination.

We didn't, at all, mean to suggest in our previous post that women shouldn't post on Mumsnet about abortion. This really, really couldn't be further from our point of view. It's a vital and important topic and we absolutely embrace MNers using the boards to discuss it, in any form.

One MNer had contacted us off-board about the possibility of setting up a new talk topic where MNers could discuss their personal abortion choices, and had mooted the idea of this topic being pro-actively modded, or otherwise 'protected'. Some sentences in our previous post on this thread were Blush cribbed from our reply to her, and so conflated two slightly different issues. In hindsight, we can see why saying "we're afraid that we don't think Mumsnet is able to be this place", has given the wrong idea, and we apologise for this (that'll teach us not to be lazy and copy and paste).

Just to explain our thinking a bit further: the reasoning behind our reluctance to introduce a specific 'Abortion' or 'Termination' topic is that, realistically, it would be an absolute internet-wide magnet for trolls, inflammatory single-issue posters, and bunfights. While we take on board that some of you don't think it's ideal, the beauty of our 'Antenatal tests and choices' topic is that it has a usefully anodyne title, and is very rarely targeted by trolls or inflammatory posters - meaning that (in our experience) women who post there tend to get the thoughtful support that they're looking for.

One possible solution is to change its title to 'Pregnancy: choices and tests' - would that work?

"Question, MNHQ: theoretically, if there was a 'bus'-style long-running thread within Antenatal Tests and Choices specifically for termination support and chat, would you be willing to delete inflammatory/politicised/religious posts which appeared on it which were not in contravention, technically, of the Talk Guidelines but were inappropriate, insensitive and/or fighty? There's precedent for this in the recent 'please report gratuitous aggressiveness on AIBU campaign."

Thank you for suggesting this AdamsLambsBreath. A long running support thread sounds like a grand idea and you're more than welcome to start one, wherever you would like.

Obviously we can't say for definite what we would and wouldn't delete til we see it: in the end, it all comes down to whether we think something breaks Talk Guidelines. We've always resisted implementing special rules for individual threads and individual topics; there are, of course, an awful lot of very sensitive and difficult topic areas on MN, and our aim is apply our rules equally to all of them. As with all personal or potentially difficult topics, we'd like to see threads concerning abortion being thoughtful, humane and mindful of the individual circumstances of the poster concerned. And as ever, we will always take a look at any posts that you think are deliberately inflammatory, abusive or just plain mean.

If it appears that someone has signed up to Mumsnet purely to pursue a particular agenda, and we can see that they are irritating or upsetting a lot of MNers, we are always happy to step in. Similarly, we're always happy to look and see whether someone seems to be deliberately inflaming, or refusing (consistently) to engage with the debate in hand.

With these things, it's always a question of context and judgement - what one person might consider inflammatory, another might consider a valid opinion. But we are always happy to take a look.

All that said (SORRY that this is so long!) do please keep feeding back and let us know if you think we're getting it all wrong. (Or even just a little bit wrong, or the usual amount of wrong Grin).

Thanks
AdamLambsbreath · 09/09/2014 17:13

I was the poster who contacted MNHQ off-board. If there has been confusion I think some of the responsibility there may lie with me for not being clear about the e-mail which I had sent and that Kate responded to. I did indeed suggest the idea of a kind of passworded/application-only area, as I was under the impression this already existed on MN.

I should have made it clear when I posted the response that the response related to the kind of board I proposed at 10:56 and 11:52 on Monday.

LurcioAgain · 09/09/2014 17:18

Lab - big hug and good luck for tomorrow.

I have never had an abortion - but I am clued up enough to know that that's luck, because contraceptives sometimes fail. I have always been pro-choice, and pregnancy made me more so - it's hard enough with a child you know you have chosen to have and can support, and I would not wish any woman to have to go through that if they did not feel in the right place in their lives to have a child.

And yes to the idea of a supportive section of mumsnet where people trolling could be deleted.

WinifredTheLostDenver · 09/09/2014 17:23

I don't think there are any pwd protected or invitation only bits of Mn, Adam.

AdamLambsbreath · 09/09/2014 17:27

I think I got muddled with something else wini.

Thurlow · 09/09/2014 17:28

Thanks HQ - I need to read and digest.

However I just did an advanced search for "abortion" in the thread title to see where the results came up and it's quite clear that posters don't know that Antenatal Tests and Choices is the place MN has in mind for those conversations. Threads asking for support and advice when considering a termination pop up everywhere.

OP posts:
WinifredTheLostDenver · 09/09/2014 17:30

Yes, I'd agree with that Thurlow, I always thought that thread was for support during tests for DOwns Syndrome and various other conditions.

WinifredTheLostDenver · 09/09/2014 17:31

Sorry, I meant the Antenatal choices board, not thread.

momnipotent · 09/09/2014 17:31

It is not intuitive to me that I would look for support for a termination in the Antenatal Tests and Choices section. To me, that is the section where people will discuss nuchal fold tests and amniocentesis and pros and cons, and possibly have a discussion about termination of a much wanted but unhealthy child. I would not feel comfortable posting about terminating an unwanted but healthy child in that section.

momnipotent · 09/09/2014 17:32

Sorry if the wording of that offends, it is not intended to.

AdamLambsbreath · 09/09/2014 17:34

'The Special Needs topic is managed separately, on an opt-in basis' (message in Customise)

This was what confused me.

I thought this meant it was more of a hidden/protected area. It seems that for it to appear in Active Convos you need to customise your settings to opt in.

What does 'managed separately' mean?

KateSMumsnet · 09/09/2014 17:36

@LurcioAgain

Lab - big hug and good luck for tomorrow.

I have never had an abortion - but I am clued up enough to know that that's luck, because contraceptives sometimes fail. I have always been pro-choice, and pregnancy made me more so - it's hard enough with a child you know you have chosen to have and can support, and I would not wish any woman to have to go through that if they did not feel in the right place in their lives to have a child.

And yes to the idea of a supportive section of mumsnet where people trolling could be deleted.

Just to be clear Lurcio - trolling is against our talk guidelines, and if it's reported to us, we will always delete it.

donkir · 09/09/2014 17:38

Firstly I apologise as I have not read every post on this thread but thought if add my experience.
When I was younger I always against abortion and when I got pregnant at 19 I was determined to raise my baby. Which I have he's now a strapping lad of 12.
At the age if 21 I found myself pregnant again and my whole world changed. I knew I wouldn't be able to cope with another baby on my own so I took the choice to have a termination. It was very difficult going through it on my own and being in hospital on the same ward as women who had chosen to keep their babies was extremely hard. Looking back now I made the right decision for me even if it was tough at the time. I think about it sometimes when it's raised on a programme.
I am now with someone I truly love and who loves me and my ds. I'm currently pregnant and enjoying every minute.
Good luck to all of you with tough choices to make. I hope you all have love and support around you.

KateSMumsnet · 09/09/2014 17:55

@AdamLambsbreath

'The Special Needs topic is managed separately, on an opt-in basis' (message in Customise)

This was what confused me.

I thought this meant it was more of a hidden/protected area. It seems that for it to appear in Active Convos you need to customise your settings to opt in.

What does 'managed separately' mean?

Threads started within the SN topic don't appear in Active, unless, as you say, you go into customise and opt in to see them.

This is an historic thing, implemented when MN was much smaller. It was something asked for by those who use the SN topic, to avoid the confusion caused when someone replied to an OP without having clocked it was in the SN topic (e.g if an OP referred to their 6 year old DS being in nappies)

When it became apparent that there were other reasons poster's wouldn't want their threads appearing in Active, Off The Beaten Track was introduced.

MagicalHamSandwich · 09/09/2014 17:57

I had a termination when I was married to XH for what the pro-life crowd would arguably term 'social' reasons.

It's something I try to speak openly about - not exactly at the office water cooler but with people I generally talk personal stuff. What I feel more apprehensive about discussing is that I didn't think it was a particularly hard decision to make for me. It just wasn't. And when it was over I was only relieved.

I'm still scared people will think I'm a monster if I'm honest about that aspect of my termination. :(

AdamLambsbreath · 09/09/2014 18:00

Thanks for the explanation kate.

WinifredTheLostDenver · 09/09/2014 18:05

Magical, that was the OP's point in the thread I linked, plus the Caitlin Moran article mentioned.