Antenatal support thread for women who have chosen to terminate 7

[mrsbigz]

May this thread continue to offer support and friendship to all who have found ourselves knocking at its door. May the door stay firmly wedged open - to be a comfort to those who have recently lost a little one, and welcoming back those who have longer memories of their loss. May the tea always be brewing and the millionaire shortbreads always freshly baked.

And may our all little ones find each other in a magical place, where they can run, laugh and play together with no boundaries

Hi, sorry for barging in but I've just had bad news about my 13 week pregnancy and will have to terminate. Baby has cystic fibrosis. DH and I were adamant that we wouldn't bring a child into the world, knowing its lifespan would be so limited and that it was very likely to be extremely poorly for much of the time.

But now I feel horribly guilty about the baby and feel a sudden desperate urge to keep him or her although I know that is not an option :(

Has anyone else felt like this?

I'm very sorry to hear your news DTNB.

I have had to terminate for medical reasons twice now and both times I have gone into a sort of tunnel once the decision has been made and just refused to think about it any further. This time I was told that the pregnancy was slowly failing anyway as well as the baby having T21 and that just made me want it over as soon as possible. I am desperately sad about it having happened but I feel that by not terminating I would have caused greater suffering down the line both for me and a child. This way, only I have suffered.

My (medical) termination was yesterday at 14(2). If I can be of any help in what to expect let me know.

Feeling extremely tired today and there has been more crying. My mum has just gone home so I'm upset she's gone. She has been the most brilliant support to both me and my husband. Bleeding continues every time I move and I feel weak as a kitten. I hope for another good sleep tonight. I am completely at sea as to what to think about the future. After my first termination I just wanted to ttc and make it alright by having a healthy baby. This time I just feel utterly hopeless.

I have had to terminate for medical reasons twice now and both times I have gone into a sort of tunnel once the decision has been made and just refused to think about it any further. This time I was told that the pregnancy was slowly failing anyway as well as the baby having T21 and that just made me want it over as soon as possible. I am desperately sad about it having happened but I feel that by not terminating I would have caused greater suffering down the line both for me and a child. This way, only I have suffered.

EggletinaClock, the 'tunnel' thing you mention is exactly how I was feeling right the way through this pregnancy up until the cvs test, when the medical staff kept referring to "the baby". Up til then, I'd been determinedly seeing this almost as a potential pregnancy rather than an actual one IYSWIM. And then, suddenly, it was a real live baby and I was its mum. I'd made them switch off the overhead screen for the dating scan and cvs scans because I couldn't face seeing what was on it, but somehow just being there made it all seem real.

You are so right when you say that not terminating would cause great suffering for the child. I know it's the right and kind thing to do. But since I got the news, I've started having these horrific feelings of grief and guilt. I feel so bad for the poor baby. DH and I were so sure we'd cope if the news was bad. I never thought I'd go to pieces like this.

Anyway, I'm so sorry to hear that you've been through this twice now :( What awful, shitty luck. I cannot begin to imagine how devastating that must be and really hope that if you can face trying again in the future, it works out for you. Hope your physical recovery is quick. It sounds like your mum is being a tower of strength to you and your DH :) Take care xx

Horrific grief is unavoidable in my experience, guilt less so. I have never looked at a scan screen in any of my three pregnancies as I always assume the worse and I don't want to start any sort of bonding until I have an alive healthy baby in front of me.

Medical staff always keep referring to the baby, I refer to the fetus instead and I notice sometimes they change to reflect that. Everyone handles it differently though and I assume most people aren't as cold about it as I feel I have to be.

It is exceptionally shit and I'm not sure where we go from here. I think your situation us worse though if you always have a 1:4 chance. We were only supposed to have a 1% risk this time. I think you need to develop some sort of coping strategy - god knows what like. Our perspective has been not thinking beyond the CVS at 11 weeks but that's failed us this time as the (19 day) wait for results took us over the threshold for surgical termination which was by far my preference.

Life is extraordinarily unfair at times. I hope you can come to terms with your decision.

How are you doing egglet? Sorry I haven't been able to post for the last couple of days. I've just quickly read your other thread too so I'm glad others have been posting. I know how that panic feels about running out of time and feeling the urgent need to ttc again, in fact sometimes I find it totally overwhelms me and sends me into a complete downward spiral. But you have to give yourself some time to get over this hideous ordeal first. I'm not surprised you've lost your lust of life when it all just seems so totally shit. I sometimes wonder what is the point in getting excited about things when they just normally turn out badly! You really need to be kind to yourself. The fact that you're functioning at all is AMAZING. Realise how strong and fantastic you actually are and don't sweat the future right now as the present is more than enough to cope with.

Can you get away for a little bit? A change of scene may lift your spirits a little bit???

DTNB I'm so sorry to hear your news. I was a totally floored when we got our bad results (little girls with Turners Syndrome) and hung on for as long as I could before we knew that there was no chance of survival or a good life for her. The decision was the hardest thing in the world and taking the first pill (we had a medical term) was awful but once that was over, I never doubted my decision. Like egglet I've never really suffered from guilt. Our little girl was struggling to survive and I feel like we did the right thing. The grief is very hard but it has got better as time goes on and I'm sure once our due date has passed that it will continue to do so.

The decision is yours and you will make the right one. Don't let anyone else sway you as no-one truely knows what it's like until they're actually faced with it themselves. Do ask any questions you want if you think we can help you at all. Nothing is too personal here.

Lily how are you doing? When are you going away? We're still thinking of something to do on Cora's due date and I looking to you for inspiration!!!!

Love to everyone else.

xxxxxxxxx

It's awfully quiet on here! I hope you're all doing ok.

xxxxx

Sorry, I've been busy on my Me Me Me thread. Feeling pretty awful really, hard to contemplate the future with any optimism. The one thing that I'm sure we'd all benefit from is knowing that whatever we have to go through we will finally get a healthy baby at some point. I could stand anything then.

Sorry for doom and gloom. Hope you're feeling ok RW.

Oh egglet no need to apologise. You deserve all the me me me you can get at the moment.i'm so sorry that you're feeling so awful but I'm not surprised. You've been though total shit recently. Do you think you'd be able to just focus on the here and now for a little bit and not even think about the future? I totally understand the panic on trying again or not but maybe you should take some time to just get back to normality or whatever is normality these days. I have absolutely no doubt at all that this won't all end well for you and all this suffering will produce the most cherished and beautiful baby.

I'm doing ok thanks. Struggling a bit as due date is approaching and I've sort of lost the will to do or care about anything but I'm hoping it will pass soon. A couple of friends are due around the time we were and, while I don't begrudge them, I'm finding the "only x weeks to go now...I can't wait to meet my little one" posts on Facebook really irritating! I think I'm just feeling a bit bitter at the moment and I hate being like this.

Anyway, I shouldn't moan on as it's not exactly helpful to you and I'm sorry. Take care of yourself and maybe try and get out for a walk tomorrow as it's supposed to be really chilly but lovely sunshine. It may lift your spirits even if only for a little while.

Hello ladies,

Sorry I haven't been on recently, we've only just got our internet back on here so I've missed the past couple of weeks.

Recently thank's for asking after me. I'm ok and not ok, depending on the hour you ask...hoping that the bad times will just get less frequent. We're away next weekend for a night, nowhere exciting, just a trade show that we'd have gone to anyway, but have decided to stay the night too so hopefully that will be a good distraction from our due date which is on thursday. I don't think DH realises this, but he is kind of aware that it would be about now. I haven't said much to him about it as I don't think he would attach the same feeling to the date as I do. How are you bearing up? I'm guessing your due date must be very close to mine. Maybe after they have passed we will both feel stronger? I think you're totally justified in finding it hard to deal with your pg friends at the moment. Luckly I'm not in contact with any pg at the moment, I think its hard enough seeing pg strangers or new borns around. Are you going to do something to mark the date or something as a distraction from it? Hopefully I'll be around on here a bit more now our internet is back, so can return some of the support that you've been kind enough to give out recently.

Egglet my heart just goes out to you, I can't imagine what you are going through, but know that you have true friends on here who will be there for you and whom you can be completely honest with. I've just read your other thread and you have been though so much already and the fact that you are still stringing sentences together is pretty amazing. I hope we can help you through this in some small way.

Barbie welcome the thread, sorry that you find yourself here, but be assured these are lovely ladies and you will get all the support you need from people that have had similar experiences and understand your range of emotions. Ask away if there's anything you need or want to know.

Hello to everyone else, hope the lack of recent posts is an indication that you are all coping well and have lots of rl support around you

xxx

Oh don't worry about moaning, if we can't moan here where can we?! I logged out of Facebook after my first loss and have never logged back in for exactly that reason.

I think the loss of interest in life is very common, I have it badly! Same with the bitterness, it's not a nice way to be though.

I know I shouldn't be thinking of the future too much but equally I find that only having some sense that there might be a future is what I need to keep sane. When I thought my husband wouldn't let us try again I felt utterly defeated by it all.

I have a day with extended family tomorrow so we'll probably go for a walk in the woods or something.

Waves to everyone - hello
Sorry been AWOL for a few months - been trying to get back to 'normal' - however not found normality yet..
Plus lost the link to the mums net tie when we moved Internet providers.. Grr
How is everyone??
Not read all the thread yet will do at one point
Take care out there
X x

It is exceptionally shit and I'm not sure where we go from here. I think your situation us worse though if you always have a 1:4 chance. We were only supposed to have a 1% risk this time. I think you need to develop some sort of coping strategy - god knows what like. Our perspective has been not thinking beyond the CVS at 11 weeks but that's failed us this time as the (19 day) wait for results took us over the threshold for surgical termination which was by far my preference.

You only had a 1% risk this time Eggletina? Bloody hell, that is beyond shit We were also trying not to think beyond the CVS and spent 10 weeks bracing ourselves for bad news - that did work for about ten minutes when the phone call with the results came but then it just hit me really hard and I don't think I've cried as much in my life as I did that day and the day after. Can't believe you had to wait 19 days for your results Presumably that was because of the christmas and new year period? My CVS and results were both delayed for that reason, although for nothing like as long, and when I was waiting for the results it felt like I was waiting to be executed and I was also petrified that I'd end up going to 14 weeks (the threshold for surgical terminations where we live). I can't imagine how horrific it must have been for you to have that dragged out for almost three weeks

DTNB I'm so sorry to hear your news. I was a totally floored when we got our bad results (little girls with Turners Syndrome) and hung on for as long as I could before we knew that there was no chance of survival or a good life for her. The decision was the hardest thing in the world and taking the first pill (we had a medical term) was awful but once that was over, I never doubted my decision. Like egglet I've never really suffered from guilt. Our little girl was struggling to survive and I feel like we did the right thing. The grief is very hard but it has got better as time goes on and I'm sure once our due date has passed that it will continue to do so.

Thanks recentlywombled, I'm so sorry to hear about your poor little girl. The approach of your due date must be so hard and I totally know what you mean about finding it hard to cope with other peoples' easy, uncomplicated pregnancies and the unfairness of it all. I feel so childish saying it's unfair but it's true! Now that this has happened to me and DH, I have almost got a sense of wonder at the way most people can just get pregnant and be pretty sure they're going to have a healthy baby at the end of it. That seems incredible to me now. And it does make me feel sad and envious and slightly resentful, which is awful because I really would never wish this on anybody else.

The guilt I feel comes from the fact that I knew there was a 1 in 4 risk of DS2 (we found out that it was a little boy) having CF but I crossed my fingers and went for it anyway, thinking that as the odds were in our favour then the baby would probably be ok. So stupid, arrogant and reckless. I can't describe how devastated I feel for him, for having created him and then done this to him. All the way into the operating theatre, I was hoping something would happen that meant the termination couldn't go ahead after all.

Barbie welcome the thread, sorry that you find yourself here, but be assured these are lovely ladies and you will get all the support you need from people that have had similar experiences and understand your range of emotions. Ask away if there's anything you need or want to know.

Thanks lily, I'm so sorry for your loss. Hope your trip away does help to distract you from your due date being this week. Mine isn't til mid July and although I'm not dwelling on it now, I just know that come the end of June it's going to be very hard not to think about what should have been.

Egglet and dtnb, hope you are bearing up ok, and also everyone with due dates approaching. Ours is in mid Feb, it's very tough when I stray into thinking what might have been. We have a booked a few nights away which hopefully will help.

Saw the geneticist last week but the detailed chromosome testing they ran on ds2 has failed and so no further information is available unless they can find some left over post mortem tissue to use (not a sentence I ever thought I would write sadly...). She seemed to think what happened was fairly random but of course the risk of it recurring is greater than it would be had it not ocurred once. She also reiterated that she thought our baby would not have made it to term, as his hydrops were so bad by 20 weeks and his brain so seriously undeveloped (missing cerebellum). This was a great comfort.

We don't know about ttc still, geneticist said go for it if we want but dh is not keen and I don't really know how I feel, although part of me does want another baby I'm scared of a recurrence and am rethinking the concept of having another child for financial reasons too. We will wait till the summer and then see how we feel.

Sorry had to post without finishing properly as text disappeared from phone screen. I hope everyone with due dates soon gets through ok and those with more recent losses are surviving.

And re grand designs earlier in the thread - there was actually one of those programmes on tv in the waiting room when we saw the geneticist, can you believe it! x

DTNB, yes it was horrific waiting, but these days sadly I expect whatever can go wrong to go wrong. I hope you're making a good recovery. I don't think you getting pregnant was stupid or arrogant. The odds were and are still in favour of a baby of yours not having CF. Don't be hard on yourself at a time like this.

Purcellfan, it seems that the geneticists rarely say anything than up your chances slightly of it happening again. I had a supposed 1% chance of it happening again and it did, so now I assume that percentage chance will increase again. I'll try and give it one last shot but I've got age against me and thus can't hang around.

I had no due date this time. I refused to look myself and I wouldn't let the hospital generate one either. It will make things easier as I found my due date last time incredibly hard. All I can say is that it passes and then you can stop counting just how pregnant you would be if life hadn't been so shit.

Still on antibiotics here and have a check up next week. Told a friend about it all yesterday, she was horrified, I was stony faced. I'm getting to be very hard these days, it's horrible.

purcellfan poor you, I hope your time away in feb helps. The looming of your due date must be incredibly hard to cope with. And I totally understand how you'd feel relieved at being told your little one would have been unlikely to survive regardless of your decision. That must be such a comforting thing to hear.

Thank you Eggletina. I do feel terrible remorse though. But sick as it sounds, I would have been willing to do it all again as the desperate longing for another child is every bit as strong as the guilt and grief. It's bizarre and wrong but I would have done this again. However, DH has said there's no way he could ever repeat this experience.

He hadn't cried until tonight, when we were looking through some example readings for the funeral and trying to choose appropriate music. I've been the one who's fallen apart, while he's kept it together pretty well up til now. But he broke down in tears and said he doesn't want to play god again, and that he's devastated but really can't face this happening to us again. He's also very angry with the woman who did my CVS for telling me that my "baby" was "happy and wriggling about" and that it had a good, strong heartbeat. We had wanted to distance ourselves emotionally from this pregnancy as much as possible before we knew the CVS results and that didn't help at all, in fact it was downright upsetting to say the least. He's also pissed off with the hospital for not mentioning anything about the baby's burial arrangements to me until I was actually there for the termination - it made an already difficult day that much harder.

I know he's right and that this is the only sane and moral decision to make but it is so, so hard to get my head around the fact that we aren't going to have any more children, ever. And I know we're incredibly lucky to have our healthy DS but it's still indiscribably painful. It's something I just can't get my head around, like the concept of space going on for ever or of death. I don't know when I'll truly accept that this is our fate. He wants to have the snip but he's only 31 so I've said to him that that would be a bit premature because he's potentially got decades in which to father other children if we happened to split up. I wish I was 10-15 years younger and could hang on for these early blood tests that are meant to replace CVS in a few years time. And I keep thinking idiotic, desperate thoughts about how surely someone must be able to do something and make the CF genes go away. I just can't quite take in the fact that this is real and nothing can be done to fix it.

Sorry for rambling on. Eggletina, I hope your check up goes ok next week. And I hope that everyone who's been through this is getting lots of support from their loved ones, I honestly don't know what I'd do without my DH and my mum right now.

Hi, We just found out yesterday our dear sweet little baby boy has trisomy 13. I am almost 14 wks and DH and I have decided to terminate. I never thought those words would ever be said by me but we know in our hearts that this is the best for our baby and us. We had a natural miscarriage @11wks jan '11 which I really struggled to come to terms with and I am praying that I have the strength to get through this. We are very blessed to have 2 beautiful boys and they need their mummy also.
I haven't read many of your post, but will come back to them tomorrow and try and draw some strength from them. I am a heartbroken mummy.
Thanks for reading x

Maryangela, I'm so sorry to hear your news. I don't think you really have any meaningful choice in this situation. All I can say is you will get through it as you are far stronger than you feel right now. Your two boys will keep you going too. Keep posting here if it helps, we have all been through it too. x

DTNB, I don't want to question your decision but what you said chimed with me as my husband has always been more uncomfortable by the idea of having to terminate than me, not that I'm not incredibly upset by it but I just accept it and go ahead. He said after the second termination that there was no way we were going through it again. He has now said that he will support whatever I want, if I do decide I want to try again. It may be that your husband changes his position on this too in time. Just a thought.

I also had to really be very assertive that I did not want to see any of the scan screens and the consultant (not my regular one) doing the cvs said the exact same thing to me after the cvs, which was what tipped me over into crying when I'd held it together to that point. I was trying very hard not to acknowledge there was an actual baby and him saying that totally undermined that.

Strength to you anyway.

Egglet, yes I had the impression that the geneticist had sort of plucked 5% from the air, having not had the chromosome tests work. Good thinking re not having a due date and scan screens, I can't believe how much I subliminally have the due date in my head, although I've deleted it from diaries etc.

Hi to DTNB and Maryangela. Sorry that you have had to join us, but I hope the thread is some comfort to you. It really does get easier with time, although it doesn't seem like that at the beginning.

DTNB my dh is not keen on more children either, although we too are lucky to have our first son. I'm young enough just about (35) but he's older than me and it was hard to persuade him to try last time, and now he is very unkeen on trying again. I understand his reasons and realise it makes sense in a practical way but in some ways I've realised it feels like I'm losing ds2 all over again, with the loss of the possibility of another baby. As I said earlier we are going to wait a few months and see how we feel.

Hi to recentlywombled and all the others if you're around. x

maryangela I'm so sorry to hear your awful news. Hope you're bearing up as well as you can, under the circumstances and that your family are looking after you.

I also had to really be very assertive that I did not want to see any of the scan screens and the consultant (not my regular one) doing the cvs said the exact same thing to me after the cvs, which was what tipped me over into crying when I'd held it together to that point. I was trying very hard not to acknowledge there was an actual baby and him saying that totally undermined that.

Thinking about it, that was a turning point for me too Eggletina I'd managed to stay strong and rational right up til then and those words just punctured that bubble of detachment and let all the emotion in. I've honestly considered contacting the hospital and suggesting that they maybe rethink the way they word things like that. Obviously it's a difficult one for them and perhaps they're worried about seeming too cold in a sensitive situation. There may be lots of people having CVS who want their baby to be acknowledged. But an "everything's fine" would have been so much better.

I'm desperately hoping DH will change his mind about trying again but am not going to raise the subject with him for a good few months. purcell I'm 35 too and am aware that although there is still time, we can't hang about too long. I know just what you mean about feeling the loss all over again when your DH said 'no more'. It leaves you feeling really empty and hopeless, doesn't it? Fingers crossed that your DH does eventually feel able to give it one more try.

DTNB, you could contact them and point it out but I doubt it wold make much difference, it's really ingrained behaviour as 95% of people they deal with are not experiencing any problems and want to see their scans at every opportunity.

Another thing that really annoys me is the use of the term 'baby'. Part of my distancing myself from my pregnancies means that I always use the term 'fetus' or 'the pregnancy' and despite me consistently using these terms to all the professionals I have to see, very few of them pick up on this and use it back to me. They kept saying things like 'and baby looks absolutely fine' etc. etc. I also don't understand why they can't even say 'THE baby' A daft annoyance but I find this use of 'baby' on it's on very twee and quite patronising. Maybe I am being unreasonable but I would expect basic 'mirroring' of language in sensitive situations to be a really basic part of communication. I'll stop ranting.

Also, you and Purcell both have bags of time! I am nearly 39 so I really can't hang about. I do hope that you both get to try again if that's what you decide you want.

Eggletina that's exactly how I felt - the nurse at the cvs and amnio appt kept saying 'we'll have a look at baby' and it really wound me up at the time.

I agree with you both. It's thoughtless and insensitive and, yes, tooth grindingly twee. You'd think they'd be used enough to dealing with people who end up losing "baby", to think twice about using that terminology when someone's having their CVS

Just been chatting to DH. He wants to book his vasectomy as soon as he's registered with a doctor here (we've lived here for 8 months and he's never got around to registering). So it looks like game over. I'm gutted but shocked, more than anything. When it does happen, I can't imagine what the despair is going to feel like. Right now it's just a sick, sinking feeling.