WHY is such a big deal made if you use drugs in labour?

[hamster]

I'm a little curious as to why so many women think that because you have pethidine/epidural/any other drug, you are a bit of a wimp.

I had an epidural during my last labour, and continuously people have felt the urge to comment. Things such as "Oh I did it with just gas and air", or "A friend of mine went through labour with absolutely nothing"

I do appologise if I do sound petty, but it really puts a dent into your confidence
My sister has just been through labour, a couple of days ago, and I know that this will be one of the main topics of conversation next time I see the family, as such a big deal was made of it before the birth.

At the end of the day, I would have thought that as long as you have a healthy baby at the end of it, what does it matter?

Several people have posted that they had negative reactions from others to having pain relief in labour. It's how the thread started in fact!
I also know women personally who were refused pain relief by their midwives. I was personally told I couldn't have anything in hospital.

Well, I was given two paracetamol. I didn't know whether to laugh or cry...so I cried.

Found this on the web re the history of obsteric pain relief

'In sorrow thou shalt bring forth children." -- Genesis 3:16

"And the Lord God caused a deep sleep to fall upon Adam, and he slept; and He took one of his ribs, and closed up the flesh instead thereof." -- Genesis 2:21

Conflicting ideas about relief from childbirth pain were rooted in the Bible and continued throughout the Middle Ages and Renaissance. In late-sixteenth-century Edinburgh, Eufame MacAlyane was buried alive for seeking pain relief from Agnes Sampson, reportedly a witch, during the birth of her two sons. The biblical justification for pain during childbirth was raised again when James Simpson introduced chloroform in 1847. The quandary was effectively laid to rest when Queen Victoria set the fashion for analgesia after the successful administration of chloroform for the birth of her eighth child, Prince Leopold, in 1853, and two years later her ninth child, Princess Beatrice.'

Isn't it bizarre that so many people are judged for taking pain relief in labour, and others, myself included, are judged for NOT?

Somewhere along the line you're damned if you do and damned if you don't.

One's thing's for sure, it's other WOMEN doing all the judging. As usual we're our own worst enemies.

We should be supporting wach other and sharing the pride and awe of birth. It's such an amazing thing, however it happens.

In Genesis, Eve's punishment for giving Adam the 'forbidden fruit' is pain in childbirth and submission to her husband.

'I will multiply your pains in childbearing, you shall give birth to your children in pain. Your yearning shall be for your husband, yet he will lord it over you' (Gen. 3, 16).

Adam, incidentally, gets the lesser punishment of having to work for a living!

However, we clearly have a chicken and egg scenario here. Do women suffer in childbirth because of Eve's Original Sin? (But even most Christians don't necessarily take the story of the Fall literally.) Or is this a myth told to explain the pain suffered by women in childbirth? (And, incidentally, the fact that women have always traditionally been subordinate to men while we're at it...) If it's the latter, than it doesn't have to be taken to mean that we should suffer pain.

NB 'I shall multiply your pain' implies that some pain was already involved in the first place, but Eve's sin makes it worse.

It's also interesting that Genesis actually contains two accounts of the creation of the first woman. In Gen. 1 we are told that men and women are created equal (and, apparently, simultaneously), but in Gen. 2 we have the story of Eve being created out of Adam's rib (which makes the relationship between them an unequal one). Just goes to show that this whole thing about creation/birth and the relationship between the sexes has always been a thorny one. (And, of course, when Adam and Eve eat the fruit they also 'notice' that they are naked, so at this point sexuality/nakedness also becomes something shameful - this has got to be linked with the fact that Eve's 'punishment' is connected to childbirth surely.)

Personally, I don't feel that the pain of childbirth is a punishment. But I would also distinguish it from the pain of, say, breaking a limb (which I have done). People talk about 'pain with a purpose' and it was like that for me.

Anyway, I am wittering on irrelevantly here, sorry. (Writing something about creation myths at the moment, so the Eve thing struck a chord!)

Ellbell I agree about 'pain with a purpose'. For me it was different from (and yes, greater than) any other pain, in that, it completely stops in between contrations. Then once it's over, it's over almost as if a switch has been turned off.
Phew! What a feeling that is.

So it's like 'healthy' pain as a pose to 'Oh-My-God-something-has-broken!' sort of pathological pain.

The 'purpose' for me was very clean during labour with number 2. It told me how to move around, how to stand and rock, how on earth I was going to get this monster beachball head out.

Yikes! I still cross my legs when I call it to mind.

For me, there's a clear difference between the pain of childbirth and inflicted pain.

Whic is not to ay it's not *-ing painful.

I agree, Spidermama. I have stage four endometriosis and PCOS - my periods have been seven days of worse than labour pain, I have been left vomiting, clammy and shivering - from menstruating. The pain with endometriosis is relentless - I found that with contractions, until the end, there was at least a pause of a few seconds or a minute or so.

And a burst ovarian cyst...nothing quite as eye-watering IME. But these are my experiences of pain - and for me, part of the pain of endometriosis and the burst cyst was that I was told I'd never have children because my insides were so messed up. That didn't do much for my coping skills, shall we say...

I had no pain relief except tens machine. The first time it was by accident, I was induced so it went very quickly and there was no time for the epidural I had planned on. I actually quite enjoyed it. The second time, I thought I have done it once not too bad I can do it again. The first baby was 5lb 3 and the second was 7lb 8 and got her shoulders stuck. It was absolutely excrutiating but by the time the pain got so bad I was asking for anything, it was too late. Motto: Don't be a matyr but don't necessarily scare yourself into thinking you must have drugs. I feel it all depends on the birth and not on the woman.

Hey, this is no good... we're all in agreement!

I like the idea of healthy pain, and also the idea of the pain telling you what you need to do. My first stage was a bit like that, though I lost it a bit in the 2nd stage and got a bit 'frozen' in one position.

Sorry to hear about the endo, HM. A friend of mine had it (she's now in her 60s) and I've heard how horrendously painful it can be. I also agree about the coping thing. I coped much less well with the pain of my miscarriage (and definitely wanted drugs to block it all out) than I did with either the after-effects of my section or my natural delivery, even though I know that the pain was objectively a lot less severe.

Funny that ellbel (sorry but I'm in agreement again!).
My worst experience of contractions was my late m/c before I ever gave birth. Possibly because my uterus was 'unused', but also my state of mind at the task in hand wasn't exactly a motivating factor!

HM sorry to hear about your endo'. Do you still have it? My friend has this and she has been known to use a contraversial herb which helps.

If I had someting like you describe I would have no hesitation in taking plenty of pain relief.

I think I still have it - and yes, it's as painful as you've both heard, and then some It's hard to tell whether I do still have it or not because I only had about four periods between having DS and getting pg again (that was the plan!). They were getting more painful though, so I'm not too hopeful about pregnancy being the cure (a myth, IME!). Nothing positive about that pain, that's for sure (And if men got it, there'd be a cure for it by now )

I've just skimmed the end of this thread. The thing about Adam & Eve - the word translated as "hard work" for Adam's punishment and "pain" for Eve's is actually the same word. Whenever it occurs in the bible, it is translated as "hard work". Except for the one occasion - Eve - when it is translated "pain". For no particular reason. Blame the King James translators for that one.

And nobody ever thought to make it illegal for men to use labour-saving machines at work. Cheek! We have Queen Victoria to thank for the popularisation of pain relief in labour (even if it was just gas&air). She sensibly insisted on it and after that, what could a Victorian husband say?

you would not say to a doctor "thats ok I don't need pain relief for you to re-set my broken leg"... so why is there such a stigma about pain relief during something infinitely more painful???
Go for everything you want or need IMO. Life is too short and early motherhood is too stressful to be recovering from an agonising experience that you needn't go through.

Queen Victoria actually had chloroform - 'blessed, blessed chloroform', as she called it - and had to fight the medics for it, as they'd gone to one too many Bible readings.

WOW, this has turned into quite a debate.
Having skimmed through, i think the most important thing is to go into giving birth open minded.
I had both times on my Birth plan that i would prefer no drugs but would see how i went.
If you go in open minded then i think you're less likel;y to feel bad about any choices.
I know the thread started as someone felt sad that she was being judged. I just feel that no-one has the right to judge as we all handle pain so differently.

I'm sure if it were men who had to do it, they'd be on the pethedine at the thin blue line

I have heared that Queen Victoria said, 'We are having the royal child and we shall have the cholorform'. I have looked for a quote but can't find it anywhere.

I do hope that she said it, great sentiment!

I wonder if Elizabeth II tried that, 'We are having the baby so we will have the pethidine'.

That's interesting Fruitful. But I don't think we can blame the translators. I've just checked the Bibles I have in two languages and in both cases God's words to Adam do mention 'suffering'. I was interested in the idea of the pain of childbirth as a punishment, which sort of sets women up to feel bad about the pain before they even start. Obviously this may be on a subliminal level (not suggesting that we all go into labour thinking 'Oh well, I'm a daughter of Eve, so I deserve all I get'!). My feeling is that the pain of labour is so unusual that it needs to be given some sort of mythological explanation.

(Alternatively, I may just be waffling... I am finding this thread really interesting, though.)

just skim read this.

I have a three week old baby. I always planned epidural, I got one, I loved it. Pushed for 45 minutes to a spot of mozart, ate a banana. It was amazing.

I think epidurals ROCK! But that's about personal choice. Who gives a monkeys what somebody else chooses? Informed choice is surely the key.

I'm amazed anyone can go through it without epidural, but I have a low pain threashold. I make no value judgements either way.

As for all that stuff about the bible....not sure about that. Isn't there something to the effect of "and lo! there came an angel, and it was good! And the angel was wearing a blue top and trousers and he did have access to a big needle and powerful drugs! and it was good! And Mary, who was high on gas and air, did tell the man in blue that he was very special and important and that he needed to "hurry up with that sodding needle". And it was good! And then, in the final hours, she did rest and eat a banana as the prize for her previous toils....."

I'm sure we did it in RE classes at the approved school I went to. Something about Mary wanting an epidural and Joseph saying "I'll go get the midwife"

I seriously would not of coped well during labour (both labours) without and epidural, it was simply a pain i could not manage.

Hats off to those who can cope, but everyone has a different pain threshold, mine is that of a small fieldmouse.

If pain relief is available then why not?? why put yourself through something so painful? Its not a "strong-man" competetition.