WHY is such a big deal made if you use drugs in labour?

[hamster]

I'm a little curious as to why so many women think that because you have pethidine/epidural/any other drug, you are a bit of a wimp.

I had an epidural during my last labour, and continuously people have felt the urge to comment. Things such as "Oh I did it with just gas and air", or "A friend of mine went through labour with absolutely nothing"

I do appologise if I do sound petty, but it really puts a dent into your confidence
My sister has just been through labour, a couple of days ago, and I know that this will be one of the main topics of conversation next time I see the family, as such a big deal was made of it before the birth.

At the end of the day, I would have thought that as long as you have a healthy baby at the end of it, what does it matter?

Aloha: "I just love it when people who haven't had babies want to tell other people where they went wrong." Hmm - was that another snip at me? I'm not telling people where they went wrong. I wouldn't be so presumptuous. I keep referring back to the notion of 'informed' choice.

I don't want to discuss my medical history, but I have fairly lengthy experience of what you call "searing, falling to the floor agony" - and without anything to look forward to at the end. I'm prepared to accept that when push comes to shove, things may go pear-shaped - and I won't beat myself with guilt if I have to, say, transfer from home to hospital for a c-section. But for various reasons, both medical and ideological, I hope to stay away from drugs for as long as humanly possible - and I haven't decided this lightly.

Of course, if RZ has had miscarriages then that is sad. But I think telling other people that their birth choices (eg epidural) are wrong and harmful to their baby is pretty provocative, actually. Esp on a thread started by someone who has had an epidural and specifically said that her confidence was severely dented by people saying exactly that.

RZ, you know perfectly well that you had a pretty good go at me too before I posted that!
Of course I hope your birth is exactly as you want it and you have a splendid healthy baby. But criticising other people's choices isn't exactly kind either, esp when they say that previous criticism has made them sad.

Thanks SoupDragon, Dinosaur . I hadn't gone off to weep, it just took me a while to post the last entry - whilst being chewed by the dog.

Yes, I've had three miscarriages. I'm pregnant and due in September. I also have a history of kidney problems, the pain from which I would cheerfully describe as crucifying.

Amusingly, my mother found labour far less painful than some of her periods had been.

I've had surgery too you know. Enormous cysts on both my ovaries that the surgeons thought might be cancer (but fortunately weren't). They were extremely painful and I could easily have lost my fertility. It was scary. But it was truly nothing compared to labour in my case.

Oh dd is fantastic. She still wakes at night but only for five mins and then goes back to sleep. She's in her own room (which has really helped the sleeping) but I sneak her back into bed with me for a cuddle! Time slips by.
I didn't know if I'd ever be able to have children after having tennis ball sized cysts hacked off me, but thank God it all still worked when I needed it.
I really honestly thought I had a hugely high pain threshold before I went into labour with dd (though dh, who already had a child, laughed irritatingly knowingly whenever I said that). The doctors who took out my cysts said they couldn't understand how I could have stood the pain that cysts like this normally cause. But nothing could have prepared me for how I felt with dd, with her little head boring into my back. Some people do genuinely seem to find birth pretty much a doddle (not many but some!) but that doesn't mean birth is a doddle, it just means their birth was. I wouldn't wish pain on anyone.

presumptious? Moi?

Aloha: I didn't say the choice was wrong. I said there is a harm issue with drugs in labour because there is research to this effect. The thread title is "WHY is such a big deal made if you use drugs in labour?" and I would say that this is perhaps one of the factors therein. I don't think that Hamster should feel that her confidence is dented, regardless of how her family react, because it was her decision and she's the one that needs to be happy with it, not them.

dinosaur: I wouldn't say anyone was leaping over themselves with support for home birthing - particularly not since I'm currently on anticoagulants for antiphospholipid antibody syndrome. The midwife really gave me no suggestion that she would support my decision in the face of the consultant - so we have hired an independent midwife. Obviously this isn't cheap - and our bathroom remains grotty for another year, but I really feel that it was the only option I had. I would have considered a birth centre, but because I'm allegedly 'high risk' (and I've ranted about this elsewhere, so I won't burden you again) this is closed to me. I want to reduce the likelihood of caesarian as much as possible as I don't really want major surgery when I'm extra-clotty.

I haven't managed to read this whole thread, but this is clearly something of an emotive issue, like so many things around childbirth and child-rearing. I really wish that, as parents, we could muster up the courage to feel happy with our choices, to accept that we do what is best for ourselves and our children. I'm as guilty as the next person of this (feel bad about not having breastfed dd1 beyond 6 weeks, for example, despite the fact that she is clearly happy, healthy and doesn't seem to have any 'bonding issues'!), and I'm not having a go at any one person on this thread or in RL. It just seems to me that there's always something to feel bad about when you're a mother.

I know plenty of people who think that epidurals are the best thing since sliced bread. I chose not to have one because I had had a previous c-section and was worried about the total numbness of an epidural masking any pain from the scar in the unlikely event of the scar rupturing. I came to this decision after doing quite a lot of reading. I also put in my birth plan that I wanted to avoid pethidine because of the chances of it crossing the placenta. I was lucky that I coped without much pain relief (TENS, baths, a bit of G&A). But I was LUCKY and the birth was relatively short and straightforward. Had I been less lucky I'd have had another section, and I'd have been a bit disappointed, but only for a few minutes, until I saw my daughter. In both cases (the section and the drug-free natural birth) once I saw my babies I honestly felt that I wouldn't have minded if they'd dragged them out through my nostrils, as you said right at the start, Hamster, it's the baby that counts.

i think women that have an epidural are brave.. I wouldnt have dared!!
Child birth is a special time of your life and to be honest I think your birthpalan is totally up to you. Be open minded enough to change it when you get in there too!!
Child birth is not a competition, its not important how you deliver, where you deliver or how big the baby is at the end of it.
Because of medical knowledge and intervention we have lowered the ammount of mothers and babies that die ..surely thats a good thing!

If when we find out we are pregnant, we could all say that "I am having a baby which means that I will be in labour for precisely 10 hours and baby will be facing the right way and I have a threshold of 7 on the pain threshold scale which is exactly the same as every other woman on the planet" then I think that this discussion would be valid - we would all be able to make recommendations to each other if we were all in exactly the same circumstances.
As it is, we are all different, our babies are all different, facilities in hospital are different, some of us are frightened of needles, some allergic to various substances, some of us just too darned polite to ask!! I'm not even going to mention my own experience - you'll have to guess whether I have/haven't given birth before.
All we can hope for is when/if we get to the stage of giving birth that it is a comfortable as possible for mother and baby and all works out ok in the end. I really do feel bad for anyone that has had a bad experience and am not going to judge whether pain relief is right or wrong.

(dismounts from soap box)

Spidermama, I'll swap birth stories with you!!! You can email me if you like.

Both my dd and ds were born at home (dd by accident,lol, ds planned).

I was offered gas and air both times, but found couldn't do anything but just breathe - taking my attention away from what was going on in my body. Couldn't talk, move, nothing, when I was having a contraction!!

However, I will say that the pain with dd was bearable (3.5 hr labour), but with ds I have never known such pain was possible, if I'd had a mallet, I'd have willingly knocked myself out! (1.5hr labour). The experiences were totally, totally different!

Perhaps if I had had the pain of ds's labour for hours and hours, I would have had any and all pain relief going.

If you need pain relief then why not take the options open? - would a man at the dentist say no thanks to pain relief?? as the experience would be better

havent read all of this (no doubt controversial) thread but I didnt have an epidural with either of mine as, wierdly, I have more of a fear of having a spinal injection than of labour.

but I thought it was common knowledge that epidurals slow down labour considerably and this can often lead to an increased rate of sections/intervention? [honest, puzzled emoticon]

and I think having a baby is probably a bit like having your legs waxed

by which I mean sometimes it is bearable, sometimes it is agony and you can never be sure which you are going to get. So if I had a third i'd be open minded about the drugs thing.

Enid, it's 'common knowledge' but rather to my surpise that knowledge is not particularly well-underpinned by fact

lol

I really thought they did though

thats what they told us in NCT classes anyway

I rest my case

RedZuleika, I like you. I like your rationale and your confidence. I don't imagine, for one second, that you'll allow yourself to be swayed from the course of your birth dreams.

It takes a strong woman to hold on to self-belief in the face of so much doubt. I remember so well being sneered at for requesting drug-free homebirths, by other mothers and health professionals.

I hated the attitude of 'Huh! she'll come down to earth with a bump. That'll wipe the smile off her face.' etc. It's almost as if they want you to fail in your dreams. To have as bad a time as they did, or better still - worse.

You go for it. I wish you all the very best.

I'd like to point out I LOVE my birth choices. I have them with me forever. That's me. There's no judgement implied on anyone else. The only flip side is that they make me unpopular amongst other mums. I'm too long in the tooth now to pretend things didn't go well so as not to offend anyone.

As for those who say, 'at the end of the day a healthy baby is all that matters'. Not for me. I also wanted to feel my child, a new life, something from another place, bursting through into this world from me. I wanted to feel every single twinge, every rub, every spasm of such a momentus journey. It's the most incredible feeling I've had in my life and way too overwhelming to describe here. I'm in awe of women and what we're capable of.

Gillevey ... People don't 'make you feel bad for having drugs'. No-one can 'make' you feel bad. That's all down to you. You are responsible for your own feelings.
If someone were to openly judge you for, say, going to yoga classes because they find Pilates a better option, would you care?
Of course not.
If you don't agree with the opinion of another, you're free to disregard it, surely. If you're confident in your choices, it won't upset you.

I'm not pretending I never judge anyone, but I am trying all the time to be less judgemental of others, Particularly other women. Judgement can be so destructive.

(Stands up on a chair ... tears rolling down her cheeks)
Sisters! Let's unite! Let go of judgement. The only way is your own. Let's support each other's choices. Celebrate the freedom we enjoy to make these choices.

Talk me down someone. I've got to make dinner now.

My 1st delivery was epidural, ventouse and after that I said I would never have another epidural. The reason I opted for it 1st time was that I felt completely out of control in hospital and was unable to cope with the pain.

I did a lot of research 2nd time around and decided that I really wanted to try to avoid drugs this time due to possible side effects/complications for me and the baby. Dd2 was born at home - I used a birthing pool and gas and air and was able to cope with the pain even though it was excrutiating.

Yes, I am proud to have given birth at home without strong drugs as I have a very low pain threshold. BUT - I have to say that the 2nd birth was more traumatic due to the level of pain I experienced - it was just shocking, and mentally it took me longer to recover than the 1st time (even though that time I experienced cord prolapse and narrowly avoided having to have an emergency section).

Yes, the 2nd birth was more relaxed, I felt more in control, and it was overall a positive experience, but it wasn't necessarily "better" than 1st time and I certainly wouldn't boast about it. The end result was the same both times - a beautiful health baby, and that, after all, is all that matters [smile}.

Thanks very much, Spidermama - that's the nicest thing anyone's said to me all day...

You go, Spidermama! (Careful not to fall off that chair, though... what with all the tears and everything!)

I am of the 'a healthy baby is all that matters' persuasion because I was unlucky enough to have a problem which meant that dd was nearly born at 27 weeks, so I was just so relieved to get to 36 weeks that the fact that I hadn't achieved my dream of a drug-free home birth seemed incredibly trivial. I had 10 weeks in hospital to come round to that point of view. (I still have the dream, though... and if I ever have no. 3... .) When push comes to shove (no pun intended) - if it's a choice between a healthy baby or not a healthy baby - that the end result really is all that matters. For most people, though, the choice isn't that clear cut, which is why this debate isn't straightforward.