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[BonzoDoodah]

Hi All
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Morning all. We had sleep - YAY! Apart from the cat waking us up at 2am trying to hurl up a furball on the bed

So - what awaits today for everyone? It's already much cooler here - hoorah! I'm thinking I may offer my services as Home Secretary - i reckon I could fit it in around nappy changes and my mate across the road works at the commons.....could get a lift with her Mind you - now I can't claim for a duck house or moat cleaning I'm wondering if it's worth it...

Hope all you preggie ladies got some kip and those of us with grumpy LOs did too.

X-posts jw yes, Verity had a good night but woke at 5.45am so is now back in bed!

I heard that on Radio 4 this morning (followed by my friend in Nigeria talking about a story - which was really random!!) It's a hard one. Personally I think people do forget how most poverty-stricken countries in the world would love the chance to be vaccinated. We've not seen serious disease for over three generations now (my dad had diptheria in 1928)and people fail to realise why. I don't think it's helped by the single vaccine scandal...where they aren't licensed and some are apparently not offering full protection. I think it won't change until there is an MMR/single vaccine choice. I also think there should be much more money thrown at autism. A decade from now there are going to be one heck of a lot of kids with a diagnosis and no indication as to why it's happened - especially where there are no gentics links. Solve that conundrum and convince people it's not connected to vaccines then they'll come back.

Hope K gets through the day ok with the boosters x

JJ I think the link with autism and jabs has always been a tenuous one. I can't believe I even gave the triple jab a second thought. Afterall, I've had 2/3 already done and never batted an eyelid, nor did anyone else at the time, as the shonky autism/MMR study wasn't done at that time. I don't know of any of those children in my older ones classes that were told their were autistic. Nor of any child ever that has been directly linked with it.

What my HV was saying was that there are mainly two groups of people who don't take up the jabs; the hightly intelligent ones who have read too much on the internet and the ones on benefits who just don't care and don't show up for them. Of course there'll be a few in the mainstream too of either groups but on the whole, the average baby has them done.

I think what people are forgetting is that the evidence was disproved although this part isn't sticking very well is it?

K is pretty much back to her normal self but won't go to sleep by herself in the cot. Needs rocking/tickling/stroking etc etc. I blame DH as he's the one who does all of these things. I just put her in the cot and leave her to it. Lordy. Rod, back, own and all that.

Well, sister 1 is going for her amnio this morning, and sister 2 rang last night to say that sister 3 has announced she is pregnant too, about 2.5 months. There must be something in the water in Devon, France and Thailand. Poor sister 2 would love to have another child but is single and unlikely to be getting together with anybody anytime soon.

Blimey duchesse. The women in your family have been busy Hope that your sister's amnio is ok. Fingers crossed

Jerry Springer on Radio 4 Whatever next!

Morning all!

I think the MMR jab idea is a good one, but I also think it will raise a whole bunch of issues regarding freedom of choice etc. Yes, the study was disproved, but so many people still believe it anyway. My kid will have the MMR and all its vaccines.

They do need to allow for the single jabs as well.

I woke up at 3 and didn't get back to sleep until 7:30, so I'm a bit grumpy! Doesn't help that my mother heard my CS date and immediately booked tickets for 3 days after when I know I told her we'd discuss what date she should come after I had the CS date. So now DH is upset because we will have no baby bonding time. Even though he never told me he wanted baby bonding time until after I told him she'd booked the tickets. I was annoyed with her for about 2 seconds and then shrugged my shoulders and moved on. He? Not so much.

mrsB I'm due 17th June so 38 wks exactly today. And since my other 2 were late I have a dread of going over with this one too. Still, it's 3/5 engaged and pretty low, and I've been having lots of Braxton Hicks so it may appear on time. Getting my hair done this morning so any time after then is fine by me . Enjoy your gym intro - £9 is such a bargain

I missed the MMR debate on R4, but would have guessed that the demographic for not giving DC the single jab would be shared between neglectful parents who just can't be bothered (and for some of whom the benefits tie-in might work) and educated middle-class ones who love a conspiracy theory. As you say JW the entire research process was dismissed; that doctor didn't just mess it up by taking money for it, he used a tiny sample of children whose parents were desperate to find an external reason for their autism rather than a (far more likely) genetic one. There are so many more dx of spectrum disorders because people now know about them - there have always been people whom we would now dx but at the time were just accepted as being 'eccentric'. The whole link has been completely discredited, so I don't see the need to put LOs through 3 jabs when 1 is just as effective and less stressful.

JJ Cross-trainer was the only gym machine I liked, and you can concentrate on just arms, just legs or both together so I found it a great all-over routine. My shoulders and upper arms used to be lovely. Sigh . I couldn't cope with running machines - bouncing bozooms and the feeling that I was bound to go through the floor put me off .

All a bit academic at the moment. I shall have to join one of those post-natal bootcamps they run in LA to get back into my size zeros...

tee freedom of choice is all well and good but what about the rest of us that are at risk for those who don't take them? It doesn't just affect that one person (child) it affects the rest of us too.

3 days after you give birth? Wouldn't be happy if my mother popped over to stay that soon after I'd had a CS. I'm not even sure you'll be out of hospital (I know that hospital policies vary on this but mine would have been 4-5 days stay after the CS). I guess it'll be your DH who has to compromise with her as you won't be up for anything apart from resting. Btw, men don't generally tell you anything as you're supposed to know from reading their minds. Dincha know that yet?

ermintrude totally agree re the jabs. And the single ones aren't much better as, you have to have at least one month between each of the jabs given after 13 months and at least ONE YEAR gap between each booster. That's leaving the immunity compromised and the rest of us at risk. Not to mention the poor child who has to endure 6 jabs instead of two.

Never got on with tread mills. They make me dizzy when I get off them.

I'm sure once your hair is coiffured then baby shall appear...as if by magic

morning all! gorgeous hot day today i love it

tee i can understand where your DH is coming from. BUT having another pair of hands to help you with your LO (esp as you are having CS) is a real bonus! so you lucky girl

after the birth of both my LOs, i find that having DH around is nice, but when it comes to actual helping, well, he wasnt much chop.
jw i am the same as you, i do not do the rocking, patting business, i just put LO down after he had his feed and he goes to sleep by himself most times. now that he is rolling over, he sometimes gets himself into a pickle by getting stuck in a position he does not want to be in, and starts crying, so i have to go rescue him. funny chap

JW I completely agree with you. I think not giving the MMR (or the same in singluar jabs) is practically criminal. But I do think the freedom of choice argument is going to stop any kind of 'do it or you won't get your benefits' idea.

Actually, its his parents who will be here 2 days after my CS (yes, I will still be in hospital) and then my mum is coming 5 days after I give birth. Sorry if not clear.

And I would much rather have my mum here sooner as she will actually help with stuff whereas his parents will expect to be waited on. His mum won't even stick on the kettle by herself for goodness sake! My mum will grab the hoover and the dusting cloth and cook me anything I want!!!

tee ah i see what you mean. well, just ignore his parents if they want to be waited on! hopefully, they will be helping. will they be staying with you? or is there a nearby B&B for them? me, i hate people staying over for too long. even if they are relatives.

Maybe it's just me then and I won't accept help. I'd much rather do it either by myself or get DH to do it. I remember unloading the car from holiday the day after I gave birth. My mother has never offered to help me when I've had any of my children but then again, I doubt I would have accepted it anyway. Yes, I'm strange. My DH tells me often

The thought of two sets of parents milling around after I've just had a baby makes me feel anxious and they're not even mine!

heron K does exactly the same thing of rolling over and getting stuck somewhere at the top of the cot, bent over double. They're funny creatures sometimes.

Oh it won't be two sets at the same time. PIL will be leaving on the Sunday or Monday, my parents arrive on the Tuesday.

DH and I just had a huge fight over the phone about it anyway. Because I didn't gasp read his mind about wanting a few days alone with the baby. Meaning alone, but his parents can be here and mine can't. God I hate families.

jw ohhh NOOOO about jeanie how tragic. Please send her my condolences via your facebook thingie. Very sad. Thanks for checking ... I removed the link for the old thread so wouldn't have seen.

jj have to agree with you about the exercise - and I read a big science paper on how it's actually the amount of exercise you do rather than your body weight that is more important in beating heart disease etc And especially if you've been yoyo dieting ... the exercise becomes even more important.

Duchesse - send the invoice to the person you did the work for ... don't see why the other person should get a cut for your efforts. They weren't available ... that's the way the game goes I'm afraid and they aren't a job agency are they! (Really good to get the work though)

ermintrude did you do to the David Lloyd? I joined prior to my wedding and went 4 times a week (and dropped a couple of dress sizes). I loved swimming in the outdoor pool first thing in the morning. But yes - couldn't afford to keep the membership up and blob ... weight back on with a vengeance [sob]

TEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEE Thursday!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! Boy oh boy oh boy ... how exciting for you!!! Although the little sod may confound you and arrive by themselves before that. Do you have a C-S birth plan? Good to write one. They can still do immediate skin-to- skin contact and stuff even if it is a CS. Good Luck!! My nephew is Adam and I really like the name.

MRM jabs - harumph - there's no way they should force people to have them ... freedom of choice etc ... opens the door for SUCH an array of abuses. Where would you stop once you had forced one particular medical treatment on people who did not want it? Forced sterilisation of people after X children? Forced administration of drugs with questionable side-effects? Not to mention the loonies people who refuse medical treatment on religious grounds.

My Sister and partner are home now - partially collapsed lung and in pain - so has to recover - but safe enough now - phew!

Tee don't worry about PIL coming ... you'll still be in hospital (for 3 or 4 days - at least) after a CS so you won't be getting home while they are still there anyway. So you will have time alone with the baby and the stupid selfish in-laws will have to make do with the restricted visiting hours rather than the full-whack if they'd waited. Haha really. Bloody selfish of them though - you really do need time alone at home to get used to eachother - is so life-changing having a new person in the house to look after. Any chance you can talk your parents into coming later in the week so you've had a few days alone at home before they arrive?

bonzo PIL will be here when I get out. They have planned their trip down so they are the ones who bring me home from hospital with LO, as we don't have a car.

And my mum is flying in from US. No way to change her tickets at this point. And honestly? I'm glad she's going to be here. I am suddenly getting the feeling DH will no use at all.

Hi all - can't stop/ catch up at the mo. Bit tied up on another thread (bet you can't guess ) and I wont bore you with my views on here.

Awful news about Jeannie - I was going to send a mesage on FB but she's deleted me. I suspect she doesn't want to be disturbed (understandably)

back later..........

I'm also deleted iris so can't send her any well wishes

Yeah, she's deleted me also.

morning all

I bet this place is abuzz with the MMR issue - well I ain't getting into any arguments with the pseudo-academic conspiracy theorists, not this time!

I'm not sure about making it "compulsory" what does that mean? a statutory obligation? if it just means you lose your benefits or your child has to be aducated at home then that's not compulsory as such - as you still have the choice not to do it. I don't think in general that medical treatment should be compulsory as in forced upon the individial. But absolutely, unvaccinated children should not be accepted into schools and nurseries. No way. They should be educated at home where their parents recklessness has less chance of harming others'.

tee tough call with the parents.I would not have wanted anyone around for those first few days but it is harder when you have a CS. I had a terrible job trying to put my sister off coming to stay the day we got out of hospital. It is great that people want to see the LO but you don't want peole sitting around askingyou what's for dinner when you are busy with the LO! Your DH will be fine - he just needs to learn - mine had never so much as come within a mile of a baby before D was born - now you'd think he'd been looking after them for years and is better at me with the very difficult wriggly business of changing and dressing the LO as he does it more than I do [blush} Hopefully the grandmas won't push him out of the way too much.

Hi all
Tee thinking about you and the excitement of a new baby!

Re- loosing weight- here's my F plan,I am an expert in this!

1. Fags (I don't smoke currently but they are excellent appetite suppressant)

2. Fresh air (you can go for a walk rather than eating)

3. Four hours riding, mucking out and general hard labour a day.

4. You will know this one if you have watched Shirley Valentine [shock)

14 1/2 stone to 8 1/2 in about 2-3 years first time

13 stone to 8 stone 10lb in 18 months second time

MMR - just do it- that's why we don't have smallpox anymore

Re- thieving like witch, I had a dream that my friends and I grabbed her like Squirrel Nutkin and shaved her precious bottom skimming blonde hair off and tatooed theiving cow on her forehead.... I am ashamed

Ooooh that was fun I love a good -argument- chat Immunisations are a very contentious and personal issue though aren't they.

Tee - fab news about the CS date excitement abounds!!!!!!!! (love the names too)

Bonzo- glad your sister and PIL are home and recovering now.

I'm off to see the diabetes consultant in a mo to see if he's finally going to relent and sign me off.