am pregant again after a termination for downs

[busierbee]

I traumatically and sadly had a pregnancy with a downs baby last year. I am 42. I am pregnant again - ten weeks - and consumed with fear and anxiety. Although there is no genetic basis for downs, the risk of having another downs pregnancy is higher than for a woman who has not. Am having a cvs in two weeks. Has anyone been or is anyone in this situation? need a friend

Oh Busier, oh you poor poor bunny. I'm crying for you. Do whatever you need to do to get through the next hours, the next day. Just take each moment in time and count it off, let it pass. Sleep as much as you can, just to let your brain rest from all the pain (probably impossible, especially with children). Have you got hands on support for necessary tasks like shopping, cooking etc? Call in all favours.
You don't need to post answers on ARC- but if you need to just express the rawness and godawfulness that you feel, everyone will be there for you. You don't have to say your exact situation. And I will write back to you, and so will so many others who have been there. (I'll call you too if you want to talk, sort of in Real Life, but not!! ARC will pass numbers on with permission.)
On the otherhand, if you need to just hibernate, and shut down for a bit, do that.
This is YOUR thread and if someone new looking for encouragement reads it, they can easily not read it and get support and love on another thread, so don't worry about that.
Thinking of you, and sending a gentle hand to stroke your head, through cyberspace.
Love Lins xx

My thoughts and prayers are with you. I know how painful it can be. We had to face the same desperate decision after we were diagnosed with having triosmy 9.

Now nearly exactly a year on I am still terrible mess, but it is different now. It will always be with us.

Loads of love,

Am still here. Yesterday was got through after an almighty melt down in the morning where i ended up shouting at poor DP to go away and stop telling me what to do- am sure was the shocking trauma of him telling me in the end to put the pessary in. Much hugging and sobbing afterwards. Feel we can not comfort each other at exactly the moment the other requires it as we have our own pain to manage. Am so sad. So angry. How can this happen twice really and although there is very little chance of genetic component - feel that this is just because they have not identified it yet- not that there isn't one. I am 42. Too old to go through this again. Yet my hollow emptiness where a baby should be is so excrutating. I want to be pregnant again - the only way I coped last time was because I knew i would try. Now? Different. Am so traumatised by it. I am focusing on the procedure itself and how clinically it was handled - when they were just doing their job. First time - i was in a private room in NHS hosp and was treated so gently and softly and warmly and the consultant came to see me before i went. This time no one seemed to care. I needed caring for. I guess terminations should be handled by the FMU - trained compassionate staff.
So can not come out from duvet- cried and sobbed in middle of night and feel seriously damaged by whole thing. I know it will change. I understand now that the process of conception, pregnancy, birth - even if an early painful, sad birth is more natural way to handle things maybe. In the past I was so scared to know about this. But reading Lins and other people, I understand. It is not less painful, how could it be, it is maybe more humane. Who knows? I am so angry and troubled by the process - so shocking - and yet really it is the loss of the baby that is the heart of the matter, not the offhandedness of the nursing staff. Thank you to everyone for reaching out - I so appreciate it - truly.
Quieter bee

Dear Bee
Just to add to those sending you strength and love. I terminated at 16 weeks last year for trisomy 18 and as you say the procedure itself felt so awful and I too have wondered if a birth, like Linspins, would have been different for us.
I am so so sorry this has happened to you and your family a second time.
You mentioned again your DP and the pessary -I guess he thought he had to lend you the strength to do it? That if he let you walk out without doing it the nightmare would continue? It must have cost him a lot to "persuade" you. You said you hugged a lot afterwards though so I hope you can keep talking and stick together.
thinking of you

thank you pick and mix lady for sharing. Ifeel calmer on MN than anywhere else - then when i get off I worry that am not ever going to engage with the real world. You are right re the whole pessary and DP thing- I was thinking to myself last night how perfectly horrid for him to have to do that and how would i feel if I had to encourage him to commence the end of our baby. And i have three children and he is not a daddy. It just breaks my heart in two. I am sorry to hear you have endured to same - I do not think Lins experience any less heartwrenching - God only knows she has suffered, is suffering - it just seems more humane and natural. It is all unbearable. Sorry to discuss you when you not here Lins - but as you know your thread and your honesty and humanity have moved me and given me strength.
Love x

Dear Busierbee

I'm so sorry that you are struggling and am angered that your surgical experience was made unnecessarily more unpleasant by unthinking staff. It's bound to have had a huge impact on you.

I always fought for the surgical option, as for me that was the only way of coping. But I think I was lucky in that our local hospital's policy is to give a side room for procedures carried out under such circumstances.

After having to be strong together, DH and I were initially a little tough on each other, and that's something I regret. I think I didn't appreciate the extent of his grief and his total lack of a support system. He only had me to talk to and I was useless! Sounds like you are both helping each other through - he seems a lovely man.

Our appointment with the geneticist came through about 3 months after and that gave me something to focus on. I think one of the hardest parts of the experience/s for me was feeling 'all bottled up' with some very strong emotions and only the smallest circle of people that I could release them with. In many ways I think my silence delayed the healing process. That you're talking here is such a positive thing, so keep on posting, if you can.

With love

Thank you Shangrila
I am sure you dealt with your pain in the only way you could at the time - I joined mn before i knew about this sad news of mine and it has been strenghtening undoubtedly not to feel so isolated. But I very much feel there is no wrong and no right way of doing things at all.
I do not dare to ask for fear of upsetting you - so do not reply if too hard. Did you try again? Have you tried again. We too have meeting with genetic team altho consultant said that baby had a whole extra chromosome which would mean is not translocation ds which is the inherited condition. Can not imagine that the next baby would not also have.
So, on we go. The mornings are my worst time and as the day goes on as it inevitably does and always will, I feel less overwhelmed. Still sad but less crazy.
Thank you again for your reaching out - is never easy.

I have no experience to offer but having been following Lins's thread and now yours I just wanted to send thoughts and love. You've both been through things no-one should ever have to twice now, and I can't even imagine how it must feel.

You and Lins both express yourselves so well and I think you're both amazing women.

Wishing you every strength to get through the coming weeks.

x

Busierbee - I'm past upsetting and actually find it quite cathartic to post, so ask away. If I can help now, or at any stage in the future, just let me know.

We did try again and I have had two missed miscarriages. We found out from the post mortem that the first was affected by turners syndrome and then, finally, the most bitter of blows the last was again downs syndrome. I was around 39 at the time.

The geneticist was adamant that it was just random 'bad luck' which I found rather impossible to believe.

I have a DD who is the absolute light of my life and my pregnancy with her was textbook and blissfully worry free. It was only when she was 3 that life wobbled. We have taken the decision that she will be an only. We did enquire about PGD and were put off by a consultant who I think was perhaps uninformed. If I could go back to where you are now, I would certainly have investigated that as fully as possible, rather than blindly trying again in hope. I think it would have been a better way forward for us, but who knows?

Despite this not being the outcome we wanted or envisaged, you must believe that we are fine and happy. We have had to make some tough choices along the way but life is good.
I'm sure it will be again for you and your family.

Let me know if there's anything else you need.

BB, just left my phone number with ARC helpline, just in case you fancy a chat this evening or at the weekend. But totally fine if not! .
Have got dd and a friend running riot round the house at the moment, hence this is a brief message.
xx Lins xx

BB - i can't give this post the time it needs because of rl, but I wanted you to know I am thinking of you and have been all week really. Time will pass.

Busier, did you read a post on ARC today from a mum called Dani? I've just read it and couldn't believe it - she's had two Downs babies in a row. And very similar experiences to you. I got your messages too, thanks! xxxx (not sure if you realised, but because the message board is fully moderated, the messages only get put up twice a day, in one big lump, so the first one you wrote only appeared this evening, with the other one.)
I feel like I am glued to my computer at the moment. My husband usually uses it quite a bit in the evenings but recently he's been turfed off, and is now mumbling about getting a spare laptop. But for me to function for each day I need to keep checking my messages and writing to people who are going through the same stuff as me. It's the only way to deal with some of the thoughts in my head. And reaching out to help others makes me feel that Daisy wasn't here for no reason.
Blimey, I'm waffling. (that's the effect of a big glass of red wine after no alcohol for ages...hic).
Lins xx

You're an amazing lady linspins. Enjoy the wine.

Linsoins - how patronising of me . It was a well intentioned post but so hard to say these things isn't it? I have seen your thread and can only wish the same peace I wish BB. x

treedelivery- huh? not patronising. That was a nice thing to say. And yes, it is hard to say stuff on here cos you're never quite sure how it comes across. Just giggling at the thought of having webcams on Mumsnet so we could all speak face to face - but then on the other hand the anonymity can be good too.
Night all xxx

O busierbee i am so sorry, I have never been in your position. But when i sat and though about what you are going through it breaks my heart.

I am so glad i came accross this thread because i am sure there are other women out there afraid to say they had a termination. You have friends here and always will, and i hope you get the comfort you need.

Take care
x

Hope you have had some sleep and Have been able to eat. x

Linspins - cheers for that! Hard to talk without having a tone of voice isn't it? Hope you're having an ok weekend too, sounds like ARC is really helping. x

Hello MN friends
Am still here - and thank you to you all for checking in on me. It gives such comfort to go online and see little messages of hope and connection - even if not strong enough to reply always.
Lins - so glad have finally made contact with ARC - I have worked out how to do it now and realise it functions in different way to MN and understand why that would be given the impact that some posts here have had on fragile states of mind. And i did read the post re Downs - will reach out to that woman when can. At moment am too worn down to start again and introduce self - whereas here I feel known a little and the journey has been shared. And you are a honey to leave phone number for me - when I have th words... I had another meltdown of epic crazy proportions last night - started off with shut down then big arguement about how poor DP needed to able to reach me and comfort me and he is hurting too. And ended with just sobbing and sobbing how all i wanted was a little baby to love with him and how at one stage during the scan we both felt it was all okay as that is what the first doctor said and our hearts leapt. And now this. Too much to bear somehow. You know that place where you lose all control of yourself- regress to a sob wracked wreck? Comforted each other and then really felt needed to get out and get away from this house of tears and sadness - so bizarrely went for dinner. And was good to be us still.
Came home somewhat worse for wear and of course checked my MN ladies - and there you all beautifully were - also a bit red wineish. As you should be Lins - you have got through another week my dear.
Today overdid the real world - saw pregnant ladies and tiny babies - and felt to estranged. Somehow thought I needed a new cardigan in my life (gosh like a new baby gets?) - thinking of Treedelivery and her words of keeping warm and soft. Although suspect this is not quite what you had in mind Tree. But what was I thinking? Stupid stupid shoppping. so am stting in the sun- catching up with you and listening to DP strumming on his guitar - such a sad sound.
Shangrila - I have to agree with you and your sense that it can not all be random - I really feel that they just have not identified the gene yet. But maybe that is how one feels after this.So glad that you have your precious daughter and that you feel life is good - bitterness can be such a destructive force. It just seems impossible. DP is reluctant to leap back in to trying - either with PGD or otherwise - worried for me, worried will not work. Feels our life if more than fine as it is and that he can live without being a dad. Breaks my heart his bravery. Sorry this is so long - but feel the thread is so vital. Such a fitting word a thread - in the way that a thread holds textiles together I feel it is holding me together and also holding me to something bigger that myself. Which is you people - even though I have not met you even. Deep breaths for another week - has only been a few days since that shocking procedure. Another woman on ARC had a similar troubling dehumanising termination at a clinic in fact, makes me so cross. Such poor care of women in fragile fragile states of mind and body.A little humanity is all that is required, and dignity and kindness. She had even worse esperience poor woman. Happy Saturday to you all - and again thank you.
BB xxxx

I am ready to kick ass at how your procedure was handled.

Maybe order the thing you think might help online? I know it's not really important - but yet even postman bringing a parcel is something that happens in the week, for you, that signifies passing of time. I always tell everyone who is able - to get cashmere socks and a hot water bottle nearby at all times.
A warm, soft wrap to cocoon in, and that can be got out in 10 years when you revisit these times is an amazing thing to have also.

It was very brave of you to go into the world. It may have been too much, and yet, maybe it suplied something else for your brain to do. Even thinking that it was too much and mulling over details of the trip, is not thinking about your troubles. And that is time off for your poor exhausted brain

Hope it makes sense, if not totally ignore my ramblings. x

you need a pair

Now thats what I'm talking about.

Thank you ladies - yes you are right - and we do make up - they are not so much rows really as just geysers of emotion that well up and are, in my opinion, better out than in. And yes little treats and key small things to focus on do help too.A massage would be good. Tree - you sound like a wonderfully hippy ish spirit - in a good way.
But what is this - I need a pair?!
a pair of what? AM laughing now - good sign.