Is one large glass of wine every other night whilst pg ok, or not?

[AuntieSocial]

and if your friend was drinking this much, would you say something, or not?

Its my first time on mumsnet...and this topic really bugs me.the official guidlines are now NO alcohol in pregnancy...God yeh, i would love to have a couple of beers with my husband but if the physician says avoid it...who am i to decide my baby is immune to any possible effects...major or minor.
I have a friend who got drunk a few times in her pregnancy and is constsantly telling me her baby is healthy and i should chill out...how naive. Hormones or not i could murder the woman....shame really shes a good friend just stupid and easy to argue with.

You could murder the woman - you surley have the moral high ground there

Its not about having a moral high ground.
Its only for nine months...it doesnt hurt that much to give it a miss for a while...'murdering' a silly woman who smoke and drank is easier on myself than causing any potential harm to baby. Figure of speech by the way!!

'but if the physician says avoid it...who am i to decide my baby is immune to any possible effects...major or minor.'

Well, I for one am a woman who knows her body better than ANY physician out there. Because I live in it every day.

If I obeyed physicians instead of following my gut I'd be dead right now for some of their incompetence.

oh my goodness... ffs, it's a figure of speech!!!!!!!!

and the government admits the guidelines have been changed to no alcohol at all because of the belief that British women don't know how to drink in moderation, not because of any solid research.

Hmm - yes my physician told me I had indigestion - I thought it was angina.
He didn't listen - until I had a heart attack.
Physicians are fallible.

BTW - I drink a glass of red wine a day - have done all through my pregnancy and did with my last pregnancy - It relaxes me and means I haven't needed to take my angina spray whilst pregnant.

to each their own... no solid research either way...
but I do know that alcohol is a toxin, and I just prefer not to drink it whilst I'm growing a little person. whatever anyone else wants to do, i certainly would never judge them, just wouldn't do it myself.
But goodess, people are very, very adamant either way that their way is best. hot topic!!
yeah, i'll be careful not to overdose on broccoli either... (as mentioned previously) but I do know for certain that moderate broccoli consumption is actually good for a growing person

NICE guidance (March 2008) is:
Advise women planning a pregnancy to avoid alcohol in the first 3 months if possible.
If women choose to drink alcohol, advise them to drink no more than 1 to 2 UK units once or twice a week (1 unit equals half a pint of ordinary strength lager or beer, or one shot [25 ml] of spirits. One small [125 ml] glass of wine is equal to 1.5 UK units). At this low level there is no evidence of harm.
Advise women to avoid getting drunk and to avoid binge drinking.

So not a straight up "don't drink" message, but given the range of opinion as to what might be considered heavy drinking, and the preponderance for pubs to supersize drinks I don't think it is unreasonable to think that people might be confused as to what constitutes a unit, so many doctors/MW in practice may give the easier message "don't drink"

If the large glass is actually close to a third of a bottle of wine (3-4 units), then I personally would think that was at least a moderate drinking habit. If this was my friend I would talk about it to her, yes. I wouldn't nag, because that is completely pointless. Personally I drank small amounts of good wine (probably about half a glass) when offered, but only in the middle trimester.

Oh, and if you want to look at evidence, then the NICE site gives a summary of all the evidence used in putting together their guidance (which is part of general advice on antenatal care). www.nice.org.uk/nicemedia/pdf/CG62EvidenceTables.pdf The evidence, such as it is is quite equivocal, and as true double blind tests are obviously impossible, it's probably not going to get much better. But unless you are qualified in statistics, epidemiology and critical appraisal then I think it is foolish to dismiss the NICE guidance in favour of your own research or feelings about your own reactions. It is likely that the researchers who produced this guidance probably do know what they are talking about (it is after all what they have spent their professional lives specialising in). I have a masters in public health and still found working out which research was credible and which was flawed very difficult (not that I was a star in my studies, but it is a complicated field).

That's a great summary on the NICE site thank you nooka.
It shows that lots of research has been done which fails to prove any detrimental effects from light to moderate drinking (I think it was starlight who pointed this out before) ...and in fact some benefits at low levels.

My GP said that nobody knows what a safe level is at this point in time, and that while moderate drinking probably does no harm at all, to steer clear when pregnant on that basis. It's not forever, after all. I had a glass of champagne with a meal at 13 weeks, and will have another at my DH's 30th at 38 weeks, but that's my lot.

Having said that I think it's a very personal judgement call, and short of abusive levels of drinking (which need professional help, anyway) I'd stay off the issue. Dietary issues, and it's not something everyone knows about - drinking when pregnant, and comments are all over every imaginable media. Unless she's never watched Eastenders, or read a paper/magazine criticising Kerry Katona, or a broadsheet discussing the research/guidelines, she knows already. She's just making her own choice, and there's very little evidence to prove it's a mistaken one. People really do seem to feel they have a right to judge pregnant women's choices (not the OP! I should add) and it bugs me a lot - seems on a par with random acquaintances asking if you plan to give birth vaginally/breastfeed/use cloth nappies, and grabbing your bump without asking. Just nobody else's beeswax.

whatever happened to people using their own judgement and common sense about their bodies instead of relying on others to police them and tell them what to do and then complaining about a nanny state?

seems the reality is no one knows for sure whether your friend is taking an undue risk or not. I personally have gone with my gut feeling on drinking, which is that 1 (sometimes 2) small glasses a week is probably ok, with some weeks having nothing at all.
A small glass every day or a large glass every other day would just feel like too much to me, just like i try not to have salmon too often, or other foods that have known toxins.
so i guess i'm saying everyone has to use their own judgement, though i would probably point out to a good friend that drinking every other day is going to be more risky than once a week or not at all and has she thought about the possibility of FAS?
FAS is spectral disorder, you can have it just a little.

I agree that since there is no evidence to say that drinking in moderation is harmful, it seems pretty silly to make a fuss about it. I drank the odd glass of wine when I was pregnant.

However, what I think is very interesting and (I think, although I only skimmed the thread) has not been mentioned yet, is that for the first 3 months of my pregnancy I absolutely did not want any alcohol or caffeine. I first realised I was pregnant very early on when I didn't want to finish either my glass of wine or my cigarette... I also remember seeing someone buying a bottle of whisky in duty free and nearly throwing up just from the sight of the bottle.

In the 2nd trimester I was not so violently off the thought of it and did enjoy a small glass of wine every now and again, plus a nice cup of tea pretty much every day, although I quit tobacco for good.

So, my body was telling me not to consume the things which some doctors say are harmful. Was this a coincidence or did my body know something that the researchers have not yet been able to prove?

Without having read any of the research, can I ask a question? Is it known whether alcohol consumed by the mother crosses the placenta? If it does, is it generally thought that this doesn't harm the baby rather than having no effect on the baby iyswim?

starkadder - I think you're right. Lots of women I know have gone off booze at the start of the pregnancy but really fancied a beer later on!

Personally I found having a glass of wine when breastfeeding def helped to get ds off to sleep. and I don't care if anyone is shocked at that.

Expat why do you feel so strongly about this? Your name crops up in every thread that debates alcohol in pregnancy, and you seem determined to promote the use of alcohol and discredit the medical establishment. Do you own an Off Licence by any chance?

ROLF LOL

Slightly worried about all the women on here who say they need alcohol to relax...

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I'm still laughing about the owning an off-license post!!!!! RachelG that was hilarious!

good for you, onestonetogo!! Virtual medal coming your way

Gosh, I've been pg or bf (and at points both) for the last 4 1/2 years and don't think I could have remained teetotal for that long.

I am pg now and have a glass now and again when I fancy one. However, I would take great exception to anyone who said anything to me about it, as it's noone's business but my own. I wouldn't comment on a friend's drinking either.

If one of my friends said "drink can affect you differently when you're pg - let me know if you need help to finish that" I'd have laughed them out of town. Then ditched them for patronising me.

'Expat why do you feel so strongly about this? Your name crops up in every thread that debates alcohol in pregnancy, and you seem determined to promote the use of alcohol and discredit the medical establishment. Do you own an Off Licence by any chance? '

No, I don't, not that it's really anyone's business.

And actually, thanks for researching me. I'm very flattered by the stalking attention.

Like Monkeytrousers and madamez, I truly believe a lot of the medical establishment is still very misogynistic when it comes to maternity care.

They seem to have the goal of making women doubt and mistrust themselves and consequently be unable to make rational decisions about themselves and their health.

And I think this is wrong.

I'm far from alone in this, but carry on singling me out.