Is one large glass of wine every other night whilst pg ok, or not?

[AuntieSocial]

and if your friend was drinking this much, would you say something, or not?

yes yes saymyname (great song btw) but what causes FAS???/ have you read up on that?????

have you???

because i'm telling you 100% it ain't a large glass every other day.

alcoholism and severe binge drinking does.

FFS sophable have you read the last line of my post? I'm not claiming it is - I'm just pointing out that Starlight seems to be determined to underplay the frequency of FAS, so why should I accept her arguments about moderate drinking when her arguments about heavy drinking are so flawed?

"The number of children born each year without the physical anomilies but with mental retardation and behavioural problems is offically calculated to be between 10,000 and 15,000"

When you look at the research, there are actually huge problems with the way those figures are calculated - for example many children with behavioural problems of no known cause are subsequently labelled as having foetal alcohol spectrum disorder (not full-blown FAS) when their mothers admitted that they consumed some alcohol in pregnancy.

i have a serious question perhaps one of the historians on the board can answer.

i studied european history a bit, still an amateur, and people used to drink regularly in the past, even whislt pregnant.

not binges, but at times the water was dangerous to drink.

is there anecdotal or hard evidence of children presenting with symptoms that may have been FAS from the past?

We're never going to agree on this Starlight - you think no babies except those with alcoholic mothers can be harmed by alcohol. I disagree.

May as well just leave it there.

Don't know, but a friend who is pregnant in Spain was told by her doctor to have a glass of red wine every day if she fancied it - just don't get drunk. But if you're worried maybe its the way she drinks...not just the amount? Does it seem out of control?

Don't know if this will help or not - I stopped drinking comletely for the first 16 weeks (used to be a couple of glasses of wine with dinner most nights) adn then got married = couple of glasses of fizz, then went on honeymoon in Belgium and France = glass of fizz or wine 2 or 3 nights out of 5; then came home and discovered mum was terminally ill = glass of wine most nights after coming home from the hospital on the principle (probably flawed) that I needed to relax and the stress was probably worse for the baby than the alcohol.
My best friend did offer the opinion that it was up to me but to think about how I would feel if anythign did turn out to be wrong with my baby - wouldn't I feel better knowing that I had done everything as well as I possibly could and might I not end up blaming myself for my weakness if anything was wrong? A good point and well made, no offence meant or taken, no feeling of interference but I still kept having 1 glass of red wine every night.
Doesn't seem to have caused any problems so far - DS seems fine!

Thumbwitch - your logic may not have been flawed ..see below:

"WORRYING during pregnancy could stunt a child's intelligence, women were warned last night.

Stressed mothers-to-be double the risk of their toddlers having lower than average IQs, research shows.

The children are also more likely to be hyperactive, have emotional problems, not do as they are told and suffer from stress themselves.

It is thought high levels of a stress hormone in the womb may affect the brain of the developing child.

Researcher Professor Vivette Glover said the study showed stress during pregnancy to be a major public health issue.

Professor Glover, of Imperial College London, followed the progress of almost 70 women and their children.

The study looked at how stressed the women were during pregnancy.

It then measured the mental development of the children at 18 months.

The toddlers took a basic intelligence test involving tasks such as slotting shapes into holes, scoring 100 on average.

But those whose mothers were stressed during pregnancy scored much lower.

Professor Glover said: 'We found that if the woman had been very stressed when pregnant, the child scored about 90. Stress has a very marked effect on the child's mental development.' She added that it was 'highly likely' a similar effect would be found in older children.

But not all children whose mothers reported being stressed while pregnant had lower scores, suggesting genetic makeup plays a part.

In a separate study, Professor Glover who last night addressed a conference held by employment lawyers

Russell Jones Walker followed 7,000 women from pregnancy to their child's tenth birthday.

Tests when the children were four and seven showed stress during the later weeks of pregnancy was linked to long-term behavioural problems.

Those whose mothers were stressed or anxious while carrying them were twice as likely to be hyperactive, have emotional problems"

Before anyone flames me I'm not saying 'drinking is better than worrying' - just wanted to show that there is all sorts of research out there into what is/isn't harmful/beneficial - we should n't just take govt advice at face value and should make our own educated decisions.

I know that at the level of one large glass a night (I know that's not the OP but it's what I was arguing) I would see the effects over a few months - my weight, skin, alertness, general wellbeing would all be affected, so I don't find it a leap of logic to assume that an unborn baby 1/20 of my size will also be affected.

not really trying to justify myself here (oh ok I am) but just wanted to point out that for me it wasn't a large galss every night, it was a small one. Spritzered. Yes, red wine spritzer. Quite like it really, haven't gone back as it slows down my consumption.

slight sidetrack ......
DH & I went out for our wedding anniversary on Tuesday and I had 2 halves of Carling .... you should've seen the looks I got from the waiter when I ordered it.

BTW, I have probably had 5 beers and a spritzer since I've been pregnant and I've only got 5 weeks left

To answer the original question - there is no way of knowing if your friend is harming her baby. Everyone is different, every baby is different, so the only way to be 100% safe (from an alcohol point of view) is to drink none at all. That's the current medical advice :- to play it safe. There will always be people who drink gallons and have healthy babies, just as there will always be smokers who live to be 100. I guess it just depends on whether someone wants to gamble with their baby's health or not.

Personally I wouldn't take the chance. But I can see it puts you in a difficult position. Judging by the passionate vehemence with which many people here defend their right to drink in pregnancy, I imagine it would be a scary prospect to actually tell your friend what you thought.

But I think she is being irresponsible. Although I chose to abstain, I can understand people who might have a few drinks during pregnancy. But to drink that frequently seems like a reckless gamble to me. One which she (and her baby) may live to regret.

Tough call for you I think. Good luck!

'I know that at the level of one large glass a night (I know that's not the OP but it's what I was arguing) I would see the effects over a few months - my weight, skin, alertness, general wellbeing would all be affected,'

You may be affected, others who drink the same amount may not. Everyone is different.

But even if she is doing harm it is still none of your business - women don't give up the right to do whatever reckless thing they want to do their bodies when they get pregnant & like it or not fetuses have no rights.

Minster surely things that affect our friends are our business. OK, within reason - no-one would want a friend who was constantly nagging them to live their lives differently. But ultimately friends care about each other, and if someone is concerned that their friend may be doing something they may regret, surely it's OK to mention it?

'But ultimately friends care about each other, and if someone is concerned that their friend may be doing something they may regret, surely it's OK to mention it?'

No, because you don't know if they'll regret it or not, and whatever happened to supporting your pal rather than judgement masked as concern?

One of my best pals is wrecking her marriage by just being an idiot - not cheating or that, but letting the past destroy her life.

I'm not here to tell her she'll regret it.

I'm here to be on her side.

So expat, just out of curiosity, since you're such a fan of live-and-let-live, would you happily watch a friend become a heroin addict and never say anything about it? Surely even you would draw the line somewhere with your unquestioning support?

And who said the OP was out to judge her friend? She sounds genuinely concerned to me.

I had a friend who became anorexic. She was on a downward spiral, and didn't start to improve until someone expressed concern about her. Deep down she wanted someone to notice she was becoming a skeleton, and actually ask her about it, so she could admit she had a problem.

As I made perfectly clear in my post, I'm not saying we should nag our friends constantly, but a bit of concern is surely one of the essential components of friendship? And it doesn't have to be presented as "if you don't change what you're doing I won't be your friend" - there are more subtle ways of handling it.

we're not talking about someone becoming a junkie. we're talking about someone having a glass of wine every other night whilst pregnant.

Yes, I know, but you disputed my statement that friendship could involve stepping in and expressing concern. I was trying to point out that sometimes it can be appropriate. Minster said that even if she was harming herself it was none of her friend's business. I said that wasn't always the case. You disagreed with me.

'You disagreed with me.'

Yeah? So I did. Big deal.

In France apparantly they are allowed to drink every day a couple of glasses of wine, to keep the pregnant woman relaxed.

I personally think that is too much, a drink of wine every other day is your friends personal choice as having 2 glasses a week (recommended ammount and what i have) or having none at all is.

If you are so concerned about your friend that you clearly are then why don't you concentrate on doing things with her/for her that will keep her relaxed i.e- go swimming/give or take her to have a pedicure/help out with some of her chores.

Expressing concern when there is something to be concerbed aboutis one thing, sticking you nose in and alienating a friend is another.

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