Why are woman made to feel guilty for desiring a particular gender?

[Milliegirl25]

My whole life I have wished for a daughter. I know it sounds crazy but since I was a little girl I've felt like I've known her. I've dreamt about her, wrote stories about her, spent years coming up with a beautiful, meaningful name, and once I decided on the name I would write it out over and over, I would paint it, draw it, type it. Just because I was so proud of it and couldn't wait until the day I could proudly give it to my future daughter. I am currently pregnant. Like a lot of woman I have been through a lot to get to this point. I suffer with a severe anxiety disorder that has effected me my whole life, not only mentally but it also causes a host of unexplained physical symptoms. Two years ago I had a miscarriage, following that I got pregnant again. I suffered with such severe anxiety during those first few weeks I couldn't function. Tried to access support but felt under pressure due to the limited amount of time I had to make a decision. In the end my partner and I decided to terminate. I have lived with guilt as a result of my decision everyday since and have never been able to forgive myself. I worked incredibly hard and put in a lot of time, effort and money to ensure my next pregnancy wouldn't be the same. I have been seeing a perinatal psychiatrist for over two years now to support my mental health for the next pregnancy, I take medication, I exercised daily, changed my diet, got all the prenatal testing done, read books, listened to podcasts and did everything in my power to support myself to ensure this pregnancy would be successful. We even started the IVF process as it took us over a year to concieve, but luckily just as we started, we concieved naturally. Anyway despite all the work and preparation I put into this pregnancy, one thing I didn't completely consider is the possibility of not having a daughter. I know it's 50/50 but my entire life I have felt the presence of my "daughter" and just felt in my heart that for once in my life things might actually fall into place, and I might finally get my lifelong dream.
Well that wasn't the case. Two days ago I got my NIPT results back and it said male. The way I have been feeling since this news has completely taken me off guard. I mean this pregnancy has not been easy mentally so far. I'm 12 weeks and have needed a lot of mental health support for my anxiety, and have been working incredibly hard to make it through each day. But when I got the news that I wouldn't be having a daughter the pain has been completely unbearable. I will not be able to have another chance, due to my anxiety disorder. So this means I will never have the daughter that I dreamed of my whole life. I thought to myself as long as the baby if healthy, I would cope, but am shocked at how I have reacted. I know I come across as ungrateful and that's what hurts. Woman sacrifice so much physically and mentally to have a child. But when they express their desires (in this case for a particular gender), they are made to feel selfish, ungrateful or that they shouldn't be a parent if they aren't happy with the gender they are given. Anything else in life (a home, something we save up for, a career etc) we work hard and as a result we desire a particular outcome and if we don't get it, it can be upsetting. This is similar but woman aren't supported if they are upset over not having their dream of a daughter/son fulfilled. There's so much judgement online in this situation.
I just feel so disconnected from this pregnancy now. I have had to work hard for a lot of things in my life (as we all do) but this pregnancy has been something I have worked for 24/7 for over two years, and at the end of it, I will never get my longed for daughter.
I cannot stop crying. I'm grieving for someone that never existed, and feeling like an absolute awful person for not just letting my dream go and being grateful for what I have.
Since I found out every minute has been unbearable. I don't know where to go from here. The thought of living my whole life without filling that empty space in my heart that's been waiting for a daughter since I was a little girl, is absolutely unbearable.

If you have read this far, thankyou. Please no negative judgement. I already feel like an awful person, I don't need anyone else to tell me. Thanks, for reading.

Posts like these are why mumsnet is known as a nest of vipers. How vile.

I agree with the last statement here.

OP, parenting is a wild ride. Finding out you’re having a boy rather than a girl is so insignificant compared to the rest of what this journey will throw at you. Kindly, you urgently need to work on this in time for your baby arriving. Whatever you’ve been doing to work on your mental health for the last few years clearly isn’t working. You need to develop some emotional resilience and fast. I’d suggest reading a book call Bad Therapy by Abigail Shrier. She isn’t everyone’s cup of tea but reading that really helped me see my anxiety in a whole new light.

To add in to the experiences of having a boy… I wouldn’t say I was desperate for a girl but I did sort of weirdly assume I was having one. When I found out I was having a boy, I was probably mildly disappointed but more surprised than anything. The disappointment lasted all of three minutes and I just reframed the picture in my head of what it would be like. My boy is the absolute light of my life. I love him to pieces and I’m so glad I was given him and not anybody else. I am extremely grateful for him. There are so many positives to a mom/boy relationship. All of the male friends I have, most of which can be stoic or unfeeling, still have a special place in their hearts for their moms. They’re all very protective over them and practically turn in to little boys again when they see them and they get to sample moms cooking again. It’s actually quite sweet. Me and my son are very close and I hope he grows up to be like this.

Bravo that you were happy to wait until the end. But don't be so reductive by calling it nonsense.

Some of us live our lives in a different way where certain practicalities prevail.

I think gender disappointment is a complex thing. In a lot of cases it is the result of people having unfair and stereotypical expectations of what it means to be a boy or a girl, and that can be hard on the baby.

In your case it sounds like it’s very tied up in your general anxiety about the pregnancy, and it’s really good that you’re already obtaining help with your mental health. You had a fixed idea of what the baby would be like and this is a challenge to that.

I do want to reasssure you that when your baby is born and you hold their little body to you for the first time, you will have an overwhelming feeling of ‘yes, of course it’s you!’. He will feel like the baby you were always destined to have, the child you were made to mother.

You will be ok. You will love your baby. He will be all you could have dreamed of or hoped for.

Give yourself grace and time.

I can sympathise @Milliegirl25 I wanted girls (although not to the extent you seem to) and was lucky enough to have two girls.

You have built up a fantasy daughter in your head. The reality is that even if you had a daughter she wouldn't be that fantasy child. She will look different, act differently and experience life differently. Every difference between your dream and her reality would be another loss to you. That would be so unfair on her. She would constantly be letting you down just by being herself.

Under the circumstances it's probably best you have a boy this time. You can grieve your dream daughter now. Then when your son arrives I am reasonably sure that you will love him from the second you see him and accept him as he is. He will have the freedom to grow up without the pressure of fulfilling your fantasies.

Ask yourself why you had this fantasy. Was is a chance to correct wrongs in your own life? A do-over to ensure she became what you always wanted to be? Or a perfect imaginary companion you never had to share? None of those are the responsibility of a child to a parent.

Good luck. If it feels right for you let us know how you get on. You will be on my mind and I am rooting for you and your lovely little boy.

I'm sorry you're suffering. It sounds very concerning to me and the baby's sex isn't really a concern at this point. It's how mentally fragile you are and what can be done to build you up. Having a parent with severe mental illness is classed as childhood adversity.

I'm not sure you should have posted. You have MH help, I'm shocked they advised you to go forward with getting pregnant knowing there was such a high percentage of this being the outcome. No child should be born with a job.
My two DSs are simply brilliant (my youngest DC happens to be female). They've grown into amazing men, never brought a moment's drama to my door and excel in their chosen careers. I'm intensely proud of them.
The eldest is married and expecting his first DC early next year, a girl. I've watched them go through years of trying for a child, including several losses and fertility treatment. I think DIL would, if pressed, have said a girl but the joy of being able to become parents was their dream, not a sex.
No girl could ever have lived up to your fantasy.

So sorry for how you're feeling and it seems like you have a lot of mental health issues to navigate in this. Also the guilt must be awful for terminating previous pregnancy too.

However I will never understand this obsession with having one sex over the other or being surprised it's a boy when the chances are 50/50. You're putting an awful lot of pressure on baby to live up to expectations.

Having been in your situation, I am positive you will feel all proud and happy when you get your baby.
There is nothing wrong with longing for a particular gender.
Keep focussing on being healthy.

I'm glad this was your first reply, OP - very insightful, and much kinder than I wanted to be.

I'm going to quote the Bible (bear with me). 'When I was a child, I spoke like a child, I thought like a child, I reasoned like a child. But when I became a man, I put away childish things.' Your fantasy of a daughter is such a 'childish thing' - fine when daydreaming as a girl, but when you grew into an adult, and began to understand that life doesn't unfurl as some kind of perfect plan, it would have been time to put that away, and really understand that as a parent, it's always about the child. You seem to have missed that moment of maturity, and instead have built this idea of a daughter up almost into your destiny, which has now, in your reading, been snatched from you. I'm thinking these extremes of thinking are linked to your anxiety - some really good therapy would help here, I think. You seem very focused inwards, on yourself.

Your son exists. He will be a real person, and he will already have enough to deal with in terms of your anxiety - I know this may upset you, but your anxiety currently sounds poorly controlled and this will affect him. He really, really needs you to work through this sense of being owed a daughter by the universe and turn fully to him as he is. Now is not a moment to want to indulge your sense of injustice and get validation from others that it's just fine to 'not be happy' with a child of a particular sex. It's a moment to put away childish things and be the parent your son will need.

I thought it was hilarious.

You’ve had some good advice here, please talk to a mental health midwife about how you are feeling. And preparing for all the challenges that will come with little one when he’s here, is daddy able to take extra leave to support you? I too think having a boy will be positive as no girl will be the fantasy you imagine, this little boy will arrive and just be him, and you will love him. Please make sure you are alert to pnd and you have the right people round you.

I am sorry but your reaction is not exactly healthy and neither is the whole fantasising over a girl "for your whole life".

Your response is perfect.
As the mother of boys and a girl - each one wanted and loved equally for who not what they are ,I couldn't agree more.

Get as much support as you can from as many agencies as you can to get through this. It will turn out but it needs an awful lot of management on your part. Girl or boy, you will put this child under huge pressure whichever. Take each day a step at a time and try to give this new life, its best life, whatever. Think carefully also if you want further children. Keep it real.

What a lot you have had going on. It must be exhausting being in your head sometimes. I’m so sorry you are feeling like this.

I wanted a girl. It’s all girls in my family. My feeling wasn’t as strong as yours and it didn’t come with all the idealistic built up fantasies but I was worried about if I’d love a boy or know what to do.

When he came along all of that dropped away and I love him so much. I can’t imagine having a girl now.

It’s really good that you are noticing how you feel now so that you can work it through with your psychiatrist. You’ll somehow need to let go of the fantasies you had.

In truth, had the baby been a girl she would have never lived up to the fantasy. A tantrum at a key moment that you’d fantasised about but would leave you disappointed or even cross with her and it would have gotten in the way of you responding as a parent. That would be a constant process. It would never live up to the fantasy and it could have given you a lot of work to do to remain loving and not let that push your buttons. My prediction would be a very challenging mother-daughter relationship.

I am drawn to seeing that it might be life sending you a clean slate. A new beginning.

A new life to nurture without the baggage of past hopes and dreams.

He will come into the world his own person. Brand new to you and your job will be to put your own fantasies of motherhood to one side and focus on getting to know him and meeting his needs as he is, not how you want him to be. It will challenge you in ways you’ve not thought of, parenting does.

You will need to keep up the rigorous self-care because parenting is so emotionally demanding. He will push your buttons, he will challenge you at times and you’ll need to feel as robust as you can to be the wiser, kinder, stronger one. But you CAN do it.

My son is a teenager now and can pick me up. He is rude and demanding, loving and kind, he is funny and intelligent, daft as a brush. He pushes my buttons and makes me laugh, he hugs me if he thinks I’m sad (but I never lean on him or expect that), he makes me belly laugh. He is unique and he is him and I wouldn’t change a thing.

I do hope you can find the strength to put your fantasies of motherhood and having a daughter to one side and lean into discovering who this new being is that you have chosen to bring into the world.

look after yourself so you can bring the best of who you are to this little bean that’s about to burst into your life.

Good luck lovely.

She didn’t, actually. What she has said there is pretty close to what the most up to date science says about nature vs nurture.
The big five personality traits (the most widely accepted measure of personality) all have a heritability of between 40% and 60% so it is roughly half and half. Although there is a field called epigenetics which I think leads in to this although I don’t know too much about that. It’s my next book to read!

😂 What a ludicrous thing to say! {about boys needing pockets for the keys to the patriarchy}

Boys are wonderful.

Women {their mothers} need to raise them to be good men.

Neurotic mothers are probably what damages boys {and girls}.

This is spot on (also my experience)

You think talking about little boys keeping a key to the patriarchy is hilarious? I think its sick. 🤢
Mumsnet is a weird place. I take it you don't have children?

Op having a boy is a lovely experience. I have sisters and I’m so glad I got to experience having a boy. Can you try turning this round. It sounds like you have a good imagination, stories about having a boy for example. Look at boy clothes. Spend time with friends who have boys. He will be part of who you and your partner are. Every child is different whether a boy or a girl they will be unique.

The difference with the other examples you have listed is that there is another person involved here: a tiny baby boy who is complaining reliant on you and desperate for you to love him as completely as you can.

Of course you can feel disappointment. I did for a couple of days when we had the scan for our second child. But then you resolve to love them and fight for them and realise it’s not fair on them to hold them up against expectations they can’t meet before they’re even born.

We need to protect young babies from so many things in this world and sometimes one of those things is our own feelings.

I want a baby girl (am pregnant now) because as an overseas singaporean, having a baby boy is more complicated. A baby boy who claims singapore citizenship is liable for national service for 2 years on pain of jail time if he doesn't serve. There are complicated logistics on posting bail for a singaporean baby boy if he is overseas at 16 (which he would be as we live in London and own our flat, no present plans to go back).. a baby girl isn't liable for national service and can enjoy the privileges of singapore citizenship including thousands of dollars in baby bonus. Overseas singaporeans enjoy all government gifts and bonuses even if they don't pay a scrap of singapore tax, they are just treated as if they are on a long holiday overseas (though we have to pay medical insurance in singapore, but I guess the upside is we can use the medical system in songapore if nhs waiting list is too long)..

Either gender has to choose between singapore and British citizenship at 21 but I would like to give the child a choice. My DH only remained in London because I wanted to, if he never met me he would have left uk at the earliest opportunity as his sisters did, they never even worked in the uk..if the child was a boy, I can't give him the choice as I would be sending him to fight for the army of a country he has never lived in though I suppose he can always claim citizenship by descent..

But I want an only child as well so I would just stop at this child. Anyway a subsequent baby girl doesn't remove the logistics of a baby boy. I guess I also only had a sister so national service is unfamiliar to me and I only have my father's 1980s stories of national service where he ruined his kidneys playing war games in Taiwan and Australia (didn't drink water for hours)..He rose to the rank of captain and would have been liable for reservist duty until the age of 50 (they let him off at 40 like a regular soldier due to his kidney problems).he used to tell me sending a singaporean son to the army is like signing a black cheque to the government..there is no war currently but every year there are a few deaths due to accidents. My dad had a friend who was a commando and died, it was an accident and there wasn't much comfort for the parents. And in the dangerous world we live in today there is no guarantee there is no war. To be fair if there was a ear, girls would be called up too (and if you believe the minister 60 year old women!)