Gutted by gender stereotypes

[Genderstereotype]

I’ve name changed for this one as it’s outing!

I’m a lifelong (fairly hardcore) feminist and am so depressed about all the gender stereotypes you hear when pregnant and when you have a newborn!

Friends who I’d previously thought were pretty pro equality are just as bad and I feel quite down about it all!

All I get asked is ‘what are you having?’ (I don’t know) which I don’t really mind. But then they take this as a cue to launch into stereotypes about girls being <insert stereotype> and boys being <insert stereotype> It’s infuriating. I’ve heard stereotypes about dads wanting boys and mums wanting girls. Boys loving their mums more and girls being easy toddlers but hard teens. And various other BS. I don’t think I’ve ever heard such unashamed sexism in my life! Loads of it from teachers too!

I think gender stereotypes are incredibly limiting to both sexes and it’s making me genuinely upset (granted my hormones are wild right now too haha)

Is it just me? Can anyone else relate?

I think sometimes it’s just idle chitchat to be honest.

Yeah you’re right. Need to grow thicker skin. I’m usually quite good at being all live and let live and not letting things get to me. It just seems particularly unfair when the person in question isn’t even born yet. What chance do they stand. Just society I guess. Will chalk it up to pregnancy hormones.

I haven’t found people talking about what different sexes are like when they’re born/older, but the constant “what would you prefer to have?” questions (we don’t know either) really start to grate. Like, none of your business!

I’m glad we don’t know though. I personally would hate to tell people/let slip I’m having a girl to then have everyone buy pink and purple clothes and decorations for the nursery. It’s set as a neutral farmyard theme, and that’s the way it will stay! Not all girls should aspire to be princesses 🤮 I get that some parents lap up all that stuff, but not for me. Likewise with overly boy-ish themes too.

I think it will be harder when the baby’s born, as you can’t control what Christmas and birthday gifts people buy. I’ll cross that bridge when I come to it though. I don’t struggle with being blunt tbf.

There’s a lot of interesting research that shows the way we treat different sexes early on very much shapes personality differences. E.g. boys are much more likely to have their pram/stroller facing the outside world, whereas parents of girls are more likely to face the parent. Can lead to boys seeming more ‘inquisitive’ and girls seeming more ‘attached’ to their parents.

That’s so interesting about the stroller position@ES1986. I’ve seen something similar about the way people hold newborns when they’re ‘told’ they’re a certain gender. It breaks my heart that little girls are dismissed as ‘not inquisitive’ and little boys get pressure to be ‘tough’ at such a young age. And the way we treat them when their little shapes their whole life.

I’m so genuinely pleased you’re not hearing the stereotypes I am. It gives me hope that not everyone’s sexist! I’ve had quite a full-on day of people and must have heard at least 50 lazy stereotypes!

@ES1986 for Christmas and birthdays I send out an Amazon wish list! Not everyone listens but for the most part they do. I say it's because otherwise we end up with doubles or things that never get used. So no point wasting money, I control 95% of what my son recieves. I mean also because I know what space I have in my house and don't want it absolutely cluttered with stuff we can't even fit in! I might sound like a crazy mum but little man is still spoilt, gets only things he will actually play with/use and would definitely help with the issue of not wanting all princess stuff for girls and cars for boys etc. My sons quite likes his doll house and often steals his cousins baby doll to play with haha

@Ttcmumma that’s brilliant

I was in the hearing test for DS4 with a speech delay and had DD1 with me, when I said that DS4 is struggling and DD has more functional language at 1 than he does at 4, the audiologist literally said "girls learn to talk faster than boys". 🤦‍♀️

Arghhh! @SisterMichaelsHabit that’s infuriating.

My parents and in laws are low key sexist about everything. I gently challenge them and do a lot of ignoring to keep the peace! What is harder for me to tolerate is sexism from professionals whose jobs really matter! I spoke to two teachers today who were raging sexists and felt like weeping!

Granted that my pregnancy hormones make me weep at anything right now haha

To be fair there are some minor developmental differences. It is factually true that on average girls' speech and language develops faster than boys', and boys are more likely to have disorders of speech and language development.

That shouldn't affect how we treat girls and boys though. Boys with speech and language delay need appropriate assessment and support! The criteria are not different by sex.

I can't stand the BS self-fulfilling statements about interests, traits etc either. Unfortunately, it does get worse after they are born because you begin to receive huge amounts of gendered toys and clothing. And you see people treating your child differently based on sex. It's good to buy opposite-gendered toys and clothing for your children yourself, to compensate. If you have family members that will happily let you direct them to what to buy, the same goes there. Regardless of gender stereotypes, you get given so much crap that you need to have a system for returning / selling / donating much of it in order to not be overrun.

Beyond that, it's a case of accepting that this is the society we live in, there are worse societies... parental influence and role modelling is probably the most important thing. Change what you can, compensate for what you can't, accept what you can't compensate for. Befriend and mix with other parents who share your attitudes, that can be very heartening and gives you a less sexist subculture / perspective to refer to as well.

I remember a really stupid conversation with an acquaintance:

me: I’m having a second DD
her: do you mind not having a boy
me: no, I don’t think you can tell what a child is going to be like based on their sex, they’re all different
her: that’s so true! And anyway, girls are easier

🤦‍♀️

I think part of the issue is that sex is about the only thing we can find out before a baby is born, so people fixate on it and give it more importance than it has.

I do understand your upset. I am a radical feminist.
But as a mother of 3 boys and 2 girls, and as someone who worked with children- there are categorically developmental and emotional differences between boys and girls. Ignoring this is like saying it’s ok for teen boys to play rugby with teen girls.

You don’t know yet, but you will. They are different. Boy babies have more in common with boy babies and girls likewise. Sure it’s a Gaussian curve but nevertheless it stands.

@KidsDr some truly great advice here. I love the part about compensating for what you can and befriending less sexist parents. The latter has reminded me to hang out more with my more open minded friends.

I feel the same, I'm dreading telling people I'm having a boy because of the assumptions people make immediately.

OP, I also dislike the gender stereotype stuff - but I have to admit that being truly child led has been one of my core struggles with parenting. I’ve a girl and boy one year apart. While he will wear pink/princess dresses and play more openly. From 18 months she would CHOSE anything “girly” and refuse neutrals/have meltdowns over dungarees. She sorted toys in the house into his (cars trucks trains dinosaurs) and hers (the dolls for the buggy) which is not how they were bought nor gifted. Both will play with the kitchen/make believe in all roles. I watch what we reinforce in the house. We watch limited tv - and they were only at minders 2 ish days a week (so environment was relatively controlled). Im at a stage that I’m having to learn to play because every morning there are demands for “princess hair” and I’ve no idea how to do it!!! I know it’s in all of society but honestly since having kids….in many ways I’ve been surprised at how little influence I have overall. Luckily so far it’s more about clothing/play than trait based stuff - but still harder to balance than I thought.

*plat not play

@Cheetocat congratulations on your baby!

There have been so many threads here about gender disappointment over the past week alone. I can only assume dads are just as gutted to get girls. People really buy into stereotypes!

Think @minipie makes a great point that’s it’s literally the only thing we might know about them until they’re born so people overthink the significance.

My mum and brother are much closer than any other two members of our family. They have a shared interest and just naturally have a lot in common. They also talk on the phone much more than I do with my mum.

Yeah I get you. I think that’s another reason why we need to be so careful in what we say as adults to compensate for our terribly sexist society. I have an older child too and they informed me quite recently that only men could be builders, which I guess is not unreasonable considering 100% of the builders they’ve ever seen are men. It’s no wonder this kind of experience shapes their behaviour and boys might be more into fixing things, for instance. My kid has also never seen a male childcare worker so I guess that influences what they think they should be playing with or into e.g. dolls

Weirdly I find it easier to deal with stereotypes once the kids are here. I find it relatively easy to challenge sexism by saying ‘but what about daddy? He is great at looking after babies and cooks beautifully’. Or at least I can defiantly dress my kid in the ‘wrong colours’ or take them to the ‘wrong hobbies’.

There’s just something about the sexism happening in utero that really, really, really winds me up haha

I don’t like some of the things mentioned and find it a bit tiring but I also don’t believe males and females are blank slates with no differences. Males do develop speech later on average for example.

Also when you say you’ve heard stereotypes about dads wanting boys and mums wanting girls I’m not aware of any studies but I wouldn’t be surprised if there was a link. I did a quick search and there do seem lots of articles about it. And in my experience most of the “gender disappointment” threads on mumsnet are women upset they’re not having a girl. I’m not saying this is a good thing just that I wouldn’t be surprised if true.

I understand your aversion to pink, with my first girl I made it clear that I wanted mostly yellow colours and family found it really difficult to not buy her pink all the time. They are pre-programmed that way.

I work in a preschool and used to work in many nurseries, and I have to say that in my opinion the most ‘rounded’ children were the ones that were able to play with all toys and have a natural curiosity. For boys as well as girls to play with babies and dolls and show compassion and empathy is brilliant, for girls and boys to play with building materials and pretend bricks and cars helps with spatial awareness and motor control. It is such a shame that some parents limit children’s toys to stereotypical items, when there is a wealth of other areas and skills to be gained by having variation.

Sorry if I am ranting, just a subject close to my heart.

Good point @ThomasinaLivesHere. All the disappointed women on mumsnet want girls and I’m pretty sure that their sexist partners (ok I’ll say traditional to be polite) want boys. That way I can take them down the footie etc <insert stereotype here yawn>

That’s lovely to hear and something to aim for @Silverfoxlady I guess there’s something to be said for that right up until the world of work too since we’re always being told that men need to be empathetic modern team mates who are good with comms and that women need to be confident.

The pink/blue thing is hard for my family too! I once read a great book called ‘parenting beyond pink and blue’ (which has probably made me even more of an anti-sexism ranter but that’s another story!)

But is that because boys are born much more likely to be slower with speech or because we socialise boys and girls differently from birth?

I have found my tribe! I'm 19 weeks with #3 and have been told that girls steal the mother's beauty (wtf?), it would be handy if it was a boy because I wouldn't have to buy new clothes (I've always dressed my boys in yellow and green) and of course, the classic 'are you trying for a girl'.

The Christmas before DS2 was due I suggested my parents get DS1 a doll. My Dad thought I was joking and said there was no way he was getting a doll. I asked him if he was worried DS1 might grow up to be... a good father?!

He got his doll.

That’s the best ever retort to your dad @Thankyouthankyoujellybean Bravo! I need to be more quick witted with my own stuck-in-the-1950s father! I actually think we’re making much slower progress with boys as a society. At least most people understand in theory that stereotypes limit girls.

Congratulations on the new little person you’re growing!

Thank you kindly, but I'm pretty sure I heard it first on Mumsnet 😂