Gutted by gender stereotypes

[Genderstereotype]

I’ve name changed for this one as it’s outing!

I’m a lifelong (fairly hardcore) feminist and am so depressed about all the gender stereotypes you hear when pregnant and when you have a newborn!

Friends who I’d previously thought were pretty pro equality are just as bad and I feel quite down about it all!

All I get asked is ‘what are you having?’ (I don’t know) which I don’t really mind. But then they take this as a cue to launch into stereotypes about girls being <insert stereotype> and boys being <insert stereotype> It’s infuriating. I’ve heard stereotypes about dads wanting boys and mums wanting girls. Boys loving their mums more and girls being easy toddlers but hard teens. And various other BS. I don’t think I’ve ever heard such unashamed sexism in my life! Loads of it from teachers too!

I think gender stereotypes are incredibly limiting to both sexes and it’s making me genuinely upset (granted my hormones are wild right now too haha)

Is it just me? Can anyone else relate?

males and females being genetically different is a fact scientifically shown and accepted, not just something I'm 'propounding'. Boys being better at maths than girls is not a fact and there is no scientific evidence for it

(I would question the veracity of both your statements here, but far too complex a discussion for a media board.)
Let me try a different track- Yes, there are genetic differences based on sex (with variations), there are also genetic differences based on race. Are you also inclined to emphasise the latter - and point out the “scientific” “acceptance” and “factual” relevance of these differences - in response to threads where posters are sharing concerns about racialised stereotypes ?

I think I actually believed some of the stereotypes until I brought up my own daughters to adulthood. No they weren't bitchy, no they didn't hog the bathroom (that would be my late dh) Yes they did love their mum. Etc

Just to add dd1 got A for Maths A level and dd2 got 8s for physics and maths gcse

I think this is well explained @Skinthin

Even when the average boy differs from the average girl (not talking about individuals) the distributions are largely overlapping. This means we cannot predict what a child will be like based on their sex @LaCerbiatta Boys and girls are not two distinct, non overlapping categories. Even though it’s easier to think each group has a core set of characteristics, it doesn’t work like that. There’s too much variation within each group and more importantly, too much variation within each individual child.

Research doer show girls are a couple of months ahead in verbal development but that could be because they’re spoken to more in utero (my parents read to me and not my brother) or more as newborns due to stereotypes and frankly, sexism from the parents. See PP’s point about putting girls in parent-facing pushchairs so they can have chats and engage in non verbal comms versus putting boys in world-facing pushchairs.

Standard deviation does not negate the overall data story.

It is very depressing.
I’m having a second boy and people (always women actually, which is even more depressing) are quick to tell me how lovely that will be. And it’s so much easier than “dealing with” girls.

The extent to which my MIL was thrilled really highlights her internalised misogyny.

Also why do people ask what you would have preferred?! I’m not going to tell an acquaintance that I wish I wasn’t having the baby in my womb because I wanted a girl instead. I just say “well I didn’t get to choose haha”.

What do you mean? What data, and what, practically, do you use it to inform?

Why shouldn't a man look forward to having a son he can take to football?.Fact is, men and boys bond over sports. The unfortunate boy is the one who misses out on the guy stuff because his Dad isn't around or can't be bothered with him.

I know what you mean op. My dds are late teens now and most of the dire predictions never came true. They've been fine as teens.

This is true tho

The confusing thing is likely that average people that you’d meet will just be individuals.

But if you look at the top tail of achievement, it will be FULL of stereotypes lol.

So you cannot say an individual boy will be any better at maths than any individual girl, but the top scorers in maths will almost certainly be boys (and very likely East Asian).

Both can be true at the same time.

Like there’s a band where people of similar heights will occupy, but the tallest people u know will invariably be male and the shortest will be female.

@Genderstereotype Absolutely relate. You're not alone. Hate how much people go in for blue for boys, pink for girls. Want to scream anytime someone asks about gender (SEX PEOPLE SEX!).

We didn't find out DD's sex until she was born. She wear a lot of her male cousins clothes and as a baby regularly got referred to as a boy, but never bothered correcting strangers as didn't matter.

I find if you respond "no, I don't know what genitalia my baby has, why are you so interested in their genitalia?" it normally stops people in their tracks and makes them realise that the obsession with is it s boy/girl is actually really weird. Equally, other good responses I developed by the end to "what are you having?" when I was pregnant with DD was "a human infant I hope" and (one my friend suggested) "hopefully a Gryffindor!"

I think its just often people don't know what to say / ask so its seen as a "safe" question.

Unfortunately the stereotyping doesn't get much better as they get older, sorry.

do you think that East Asian people are naturally, scientifically better at maths? Or are there other factors at play here?

Ummm. They aren’t all made up stereotypes. There are some behaviours observed more in girls than boys and vice versa, with of course huge variation in both. It doesn’t make either sex less capable or lovable. https://www.nbcnews.com/news/all/girls-speak-earlier-now-we-know-why-flna1c8451985#

It's people just making conversation, honestly just chill a bit. I have 2 girls and now a boy, and actually, he's following the boy stereotypes despite being in a very girly household!

No, these studies don’t say that. My degree was maths.

Presumably she’s talking from her extensive experience. You can’t really argue with that.

Ok. Not getting worked up about First World Problems = dumb dumb.

I get worked up about plenty of things. Gendercide, FGM, the sexualisation of young children, adolescent's unregulated use of social media and access to pornography, the liberalisation of sex work laws increasing demand and thereby leading to upsurges in human trafficking and exploitation, men pressurising women to abort their children and getting away with it.

But no, I don't feel any righteous anger about someone speculating about the differences between the sexes in a completely benign way. Partly because denying any difference between males and females is completely inane and deluded. Science confirms there are differences, even from a very young age, which are not caused solely by socialisation. You're not helping the feminist cause by pretending males and females don't have any distinct characteristics.

Girls speak on average one month earlier than boys.

do you think that East Asian people are naturally, scientifically better at maths?

Pretty much every global math assessment has seen this; even in diaspora communities globally the top maths students tend to be East Asian in origin, almost exclusively male (viewed a recent Math Olympiad and the American and the Chinese teams were …. almost entirely ethnically identical)

As for the why? Nobody really knows. I’ve heard theories as ridiculous as centuries of rice farming to a culture of diligence.

As a group, visual-spatial IQ (eg shape rotation) blows all other groups away, this could definitely have had an impact!

Well, he is the expert with many years behind him, or does that not count for anything?

Super interesting conversation this has sparked!

I’ve recently found out the sex of my first baby. I understand that it’s the only detail people know and so it is the only thing they have to comment on, but I’ve felt annoyed about comments on how hard work boys are, will I try for a girl next? how do I feel compared to my husband?

Having had a difficult journey trying to concieve and stay pregnant, I’ll be delighted to have a healthy baby and delighted to watch them grow up - whether there hobbies are traditional “female” or “male” hobbies.

Q. What are you having?

A. A baby.

That should give them the hint.

We didn't tell anyone the sex either. All the baby clothes I bought were pure white - easier to wash on high temperatures - and we don't hold with that silly pink/blue distinction either.

We had a pram in a vivid, royal purple - not a pastel lilac. From this, the assumption was made that the baby inside must be a girl. I had no idea that gender was colour-coded beyond the usual pink and blue. Of course, he's a boy 🤣

I agree with you OP. It's annoying.

Just seen this is a 🧟‍♀️

No idea why there are so many resurrections just lately.

I hear you. I’m pregnant with a girl after two boys. It breaks my heart sometimes how excited people get when they discover this. Would they have been so excited about a third boy? Seems doubtful.

My neighbour keeps on about me needing to go on a pink shopping spree. Sorry but that’s just not my thing and I’ve purposefully just ordered a blue and yellow outfit for the newborn pics.