Gutted by gender stereotypes

[Genderstereotype]

I’ve name changed for this one as it’s outing!

I’m a lifelong (fairly hardcore) feminist and am so depressed about all the gender stereotypes you hear when pregnant and when you have a newborn!

Friends who I’d previously thought were pretty pro equality are just as bad and I feel quite down about it all!

All I get asked is ‘what are you having?’ (I don’t know) which I don’t really mind. But then they take this as a cue to launch into stereotypes about girls being <insert stereotype> and boys being <insert stereotype> It’s infuriating. I’ve heard stereotypes about dads wanting boys and mums wanting girls. Boys loving their mums more and girls being easy toddlers but hard teens. And various other BS. I don’t think I’ve ever heard such unashamed sexism in my life! Loads of it from teachers too!

I think gender stereotypes are incredibly limiting to both sexes and it’s making me genuinely upset (granted my hormones are wild right now too haha)

Is it just me? Can anyone else relate?

Hmm

I have some relatives with a girl and a boy, close in age. Boy was given a digger one year for Christmas. He absolutely loved it. But the girl also loved it and played with it whenever the boy wasn’t. However, the relatives kept going on about how much the boy loved his digger. Over time he was bought more and more toy vehicles and now is known for being “into” cars tractors etc.

Nobody ever bought the girl a vehicle, despite her obvious interest at age 3.

If i asked someone whether they knew what they were having (before mn taught me how offensive it was) it was because I had nothing to say and felt I needed to make a conversation. Like weddings, I don't really have any slightest interest whatsoever and hope not to have to be present for the main bit! But since being on MN I do kind of get its a pretty preposterous and intrusive question and I don't ask any more, I stick to less controversial topics like in laws and politics 😀

Well they do.....
https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC6509633/#:~:text=During%20the%20first%20years%20of,words%20(21%2C22).

It's all very nice to fight the gender stereotypes but we can't forget that boys and girls ARE genetically different (or epigenetically to be precise) and that has phenotypic consequences.

I have two sons and they are both very different, same with me and my two sisters.
We were more like tomboys in our day and spent loads more time outdoors.
My parents never made a fuss regarding what we wore or played with, anything went.
I was same when my sons were younger.
I don't really think l have had issues 're gender stereotypes, most other parents l know are laid back and allow their children to choose activities they are interested in.
My late husband wasn't at all sporty or interested in football, it was me who kicked a ball around with them.

I'm interested in hearing your opinion, how would you deal with it? If you have three kids of the same sex and over years worked out the algorithm of dealing with them. Would you change your attitude for a different sex or would you raise him/her the same as the others.

And what? So you had a boy who liked vehicles and a girl who liked clothes.
my first DD had zero interest in clothes at 2, she couldn’t give a toss what I put her in (unlike my friends DS who was extremely particular from early on). She also had no interest in dolls. she liked monkeys and train sets. My second DD cares more about what she wears and she loves dolls.
What does that tell us about the price of tea in China? Sweet FA. 🤷🏼‍♀️

That's specifically about language differences
"The aim of this review is to present the sex differences in typical communication and language development and in the prevalence of communication-related neurodevelopmental disorders"

and also, what happens if you get a person who is very good in language development as my nephews both were? Do you decide that "actually they're girls"? Or do you realise that the correlation is weak enough so as to be practically useless in using sex as a proxy measure for language skills?

There may well be differences in boys and girls as a class - averages may skew one way or another. But there is HUGE variation and crossover between individuals. Does this mean when, for example, you are hiring for a job that requires language skills you would go for a woman over a man regardless of their individual skills?

I’m not finding out, but haven’t experienced what you mentioned. I am very saddened by the predominant attitude which seems to favour girls, and this obsession with knowing the sex as early as possible and worrying if it’s “wrong”. Also assuming if you have 2 kids both male that you’d be disappointed or have a 3rd only because it might be a girl.

Exactly this. Society engrains what they expect of sex stereotypes, with examples like this and expectations around behaviour and interests.

I really don't mean to be arsey, but you do realise you are drawing conclusions about all girls, and all boys, based on observing one of each?
If I had a boy who played with clothes (I do actually know one little boy whose main hobby is dressing up) and a girl who played with vehicles would that be enough to reset your beliefs, or do they hold more strongly because you're exposed to your own kids in more depth?

To be fair I probably feel so strongly about this in part because my kids aren't necessarily gender conforming (although you could definitely pick parts of their characters that are - as I said before, depends how it's framed) so I feel slightly obliged to stick up for them - boys are no less boys because of the things they like! If one of my kids was the opposite sex I know I'd be looking at their differences and putting them in part down to sex - whereas actually I know it's purely their personalities.

@HyggeTygge Not sure I understand your argument. Yes, differences are between girls and boys as a class and there is huge overlap. And any examples that go against this trend are just anecdotes. And yes if you have 2 individuals and one has better space awareness and shows less empathy for example it doesn't necessarily mean that that one is male and the other female. They are trends and I was making a factual observation, not suggesting any different treatment based on it... 🤨

I remember when my brother got a remote controlled crane for his birthday. I loved playing with it so much. I also loved My Little Ponies, reading and programming.

What strikes me looking back is about clothes - they were far less gendered than now. I know you don't have to shop in the 'boys' or 'girls' section but it sends out strong messages about what is for boys and what is for girls. I went looking for jogging bottoms in the shops and didn't realise that girls just don't really have them - it's leggings, or skirts. Girls' shorts are tighter and shorter. And the boys' colours are more restricted (although there is more 'bright' stuff in the shops now).
When I was a kid it was all track suits (we were soooo stylish), I wore dresses on Sundays but don't even think I had any pink clothes. Pink velcro trainers maybe...

Yanbu, OP, it was easily the most depressing element of my pregnancy, even though I puked non-stop for nine months. I had no preferences, but some other people’s ‘pink vs blue’ thinking was suddenly revealed in all its glory, and my SiLs both condoled when I had a boy because obviously he was going to be a grunting, farting monosyllabic footballer rather than ball of pink to giggle and go shopping with🙄 — I hadn’t realised that the reason they both had two boys and a girl was because they were both obsessively wanting girls and kept going till they ‘got their girls’. Depressingly, while their sons are lovely, responsible adults, their two daughters are spoiled, unhappy princesses as an exact result of their gendered upbringings.

DS is 11 and an utter delight. Good luck with the rest of your pregnancy, OP. Ignore the depressing gender crap. It’s nothing to do with you or your baby.

And any examples that go against this trend are just anecdotes.

No, you can collect their data in the same way you collect the data of the rest of them. Did you mean 'exceptions' or outliers?

I guess I'm wondering - ok, someone has found that 70% of boys score highly on one attribute (let's say spatial awareness) compared to 55% of girls (figures totally made up). What do you do with this information? Does it affect anything? Can you say anything about any individual based on it? I guess you can only use it en masse - e.g. to sell stuff in quantities or with regards to large audiences where individuals don't really matter.

Not utilising that information doesn't mean we should negate those differences. Understanding and acknowledging them is needed to ensure there is no differetial treatment based on them.

My dd is very strong in STEM and is applying to study mechanical engineering. But that's no reason for me to negate that when she was little, with no influence from us, she loved dressing in pink and playing with dolls and she would favour that above anything else. But while I didn't dress her in neutral stripes or forced her to play with trucks I've always encouraged her to follow whatever her interests are with no influence or bias.

My boy is very active, won't sit still, not interested in drawing, not interested in the doll and pram I bought just in case it was of interest.

Yes sounds just like mine. She's a girl though.

It's shit, OP. And yes there are differences, but if we start treating children differently even before they are born, I really cannot believe they are all biological and women are therefore just naturally meant to earn less and do all the cooking.

DS was a delicate angelic baby with blonde curls, DD was not. I dressed them in whatever, no colour coding. I always found it quite puzzling how almost offended people were when they mistook my DS for a girl, and vice versa. Mostly the former though, as of course it is so much worse for a boy to be misgendered, apparently.

Yeh , you know those stereotypes /
generalisations you are propounding as “facts” that need to be “understood” and “acknowledged” also say girls aren’t as good as boys at maths, so really should your DD be going into structural engineering? All the while knowing her biology will put her at a disadvantage compared to her male colleagues?

with no influence from us, she loved dressing in pink

anecdotal, but my DD came home declaring she likes pink after her first day in the kindergarten, as older kids told her that this is what girls do. Parents are not the only influence.

Amazing point made by @G5000 and how the stereotypes can perpetuate the role of mothers at home or working part time in lower paid jobs. But surely the answer is not to dress all children in yellow and contradict their instincts of preferred toys! The answer is to lead by example and for women not to want and not to accept this role. And demand to work and have equal roles in the house. Nd please don't repeat the 'feminism is choice' bulshit. Funny how the choice is always for the woman to take the lesser role....

@Skinthin males and females being genetically different is a fact scientifically shown and accepted, not just something I'm 'propounding'. Boys being better at maths than girls is not a fact and there is no scientific evidence for it. Just an unfortunate misconception created here. Where I'm from it's funnily not the case at all and girls are considered to be equal to boys in maths if not better.

Please don't mistake the two

Yes LaCerbiatta, see also Nosek: National differences in gender–science stereotypes predict national sex differences in science and math achievement

Yup. I had to have a word with DS’s dimwit nursery assistant, who was a big proponent of ‘boys don’t cry’ and similar.

When I was a little girl I had all the 'girly' toys - Barbie, My Little Pony, Polly Pocket etc you name it. But the best toy I ever had was a 'land' my Dad made me out of papier mache and yogurt pots/toilet role tubs etc for my animal figures. I played with it for hours and hours, it was the best thing ever! Equally I had a lot of boy friends growing up and always preferred playing with their toys! Equally I loved climbing trees and riding my bike far!

We just found out we are having a boy (DHs male gene is incredibly strong so it was inevitable!) A girl would have been very special and I do sort of feel like I am mourning a loss as we only plan to have the one child but equally I'm excited about having our son. We haven't told anyone else the sex as I said to DH I don't want a load of either pink or blue - though that probably won't stop people once DS is born!

You make an excellent point re clothes. Sweater shop and fruit of the look all the way for us! And the shell suits as you say!

Don't get me started about clothes.

'Boy' clothes often make me want to bang my head against a wall. Dull, often dark colours full of cars, trucks and fierce animals like lions and sharks.

There's also the awful slogan ones such as ''here comes trouble'', ''boys will be boys'', ''mummy's little monster'' etc.

Yuck.