Having a girl will divide us

[CrunchyCrump]

I realise this is going to polarise a lot of people and I’m not sure what I’m looking for by posting, everything feels pretty dark at the moment so reaching out perhaps.

I’m expecting a DD in Spring after a DS. Because of my husbands religion, which I don’t share, she isn’t going to have the same freedoms in her choices that I’ve had. Having to marry into the religion for instance or conforming to religious dress.

Yes this was a discussion before we even married, but I’m now struggling with the lived version of an abstract thought. There’s no wiggle room either, if she doesn’t follow her father beliefs he will be punished for it.

I’ve spoken to DH, he does understand to an extent but when I ask for compromise he can’t meet me halfway on this because it’s so clear in his religion.

I’m so sad, it feels like this baby will cause us to separate and I don’t want that but at the same time I don’t know how I can accept a future where she doesn’t have a choice.

It’s my fault completely I accept that, I feel like I’ve screwed all of our lives up but I just can’t see a way forward.

Your DH is talking bollocks. We live in a mutilcultural world and thousands of families all over the world have successfully made compromises that still work. It sounds like he is totally unwilling to think about any kind of compromise, and is ignoring the fact that you are one half of the couple. It drives me insane when these religions claim there's absolutely no way of looking at things differently whilst still following the faith. He needs to try a lot harder. If he was that wedded to his religion he should have married someone from it.

[quote CrunchyCrump]@BurntToastAgain it’s not cultural when it’s explicitly stated in their text that women should cover their hair. Not sure how that can be misinterpreted?[/quote]
There are lots of things in that text that are conveniently ignored. How religious texts are interpreted is 100% cultural.

And there are lots of ways to ‘cover hair’. But it sounds like he expects a particular style of religious dress that is entirely a cultural choice.

What difference will leaving make though? He will still have fathers rights & access, maybe even 50/50?

[quote CrunchyCrump]@girlmom21 all children are taught the religion from around 3-5 so she’ll know about the expectations. Once any child hits 16 they’ll be accountable for their own actions as it were but yes parents are effectively punished (doesn’t get into heaven) for actions their child takes up until they’re married.

Part if me is thinking I’m blowing this up for something that’s not going to impact them for 14+ years. I’ll be ensuring they both get my views as well as they are taught to respect all other beliefs/faiths. It could be a non-issue, or at least kept kicking along into future IFYKWIM.[/quote]
Look, these two paragraphs are contradictory. Bluntly - and I am going to be blunt - you are showing that not only your dh, but YOU too, are both prepared to put your current convenience and comfort ahead of your future dd’s freedom of choice. Is she inducted from 3-5 or not introduced to religion until 16??

If she is raised in a religion from birth - and that is what it is, from birth, as expectations and different treatment start then - she will be OF that religion. She will have been thoroughly inducted into a culture that treats women as cattle.

Too few people seem to have any understanding of what culture is and how it perpetuates itself. It perpetuates itself precisely through induction throughout childhood: brains are actually formed and neutron connections created to remember and recreate correct behaviour in the culture children are raised in. It’s why childhood is so extended. It’s also why it’s so hard to change culture, attitudes, beliefs, even language: subliminal unconscious training takes a hell of a lot of rooting out and few can do that against the continued reinforcement and opposition from those around them. It’s all very well claiming that she will also be raised in yours, but do you have a stronger social network to balance out the all-consuming expectations of your dh? I suspect not - freedoms are unfortunately not as strong as control.

I know exactly what you mean about the difference between abstract and reality, but the reality is here. Are you going to choose freedom or a thoroughly controlled life for your dd? Women need to be much more aware of the choices we are making.

Neuron connections, not neutron. Autocorrects still trying!

Time you put your daughter first rather than being complicit

As far as I can tell from what you have posted, pressure on your daughter starts at 3. Discrimination and curtailment of her freedom starts at 3-5.
Sorry op but I can't see how you can be a good mum, knowing this is what is planned for your child.You would knowingly allow her life to be poorer and less free. I could never have married a man that held such views in the first place but you need to leave. Your first responsibility is always to your children.

@CrunchyCrump clearly you are getting your information from your partner and the country where you are. But some of these statements as a previous poster said are not correct.

There is a verse in the Quran that refers to covering of the head and bosom but actually interpretation of this is varied.

As with all of the text much of it is down to interpretation- which is why you have all types of Muslims. And indeed Muslim women - some of which are presidents of countries, dominating their fields, and part of everyday society as medics, teachers, police officers etc with and without head coverings.

You really need to educate yourself as it won’t be your husband oppressing your daughter but you with your ignorance

Well that sounds depressing. I wouldn't bring a baby girl into that shitty marriage of she was going to be oppressed. fuck that. leave your shitty husband and his shitty religion. It's 2022 ffs

I don't think anyone here is likely to tell you it's ok. If you're worried about your child's lack of freedom to chose....then surely you know!

many religions are forward thinking now, so there is no need to ever surpress anyone's freedom. I'd get out of there and show my children what it meant to grow into the person you chose to be.

This is a sad situation. Surely then if your DD will be expected to follow the rules of the religion then your DS will also? Meaning that in the future he will marry and impose the same restrictions on your potential GD’s? I’m afraid I wouldn’t have entered this situation in the first place as this was always possible. I would take my DC and leave if your DH won’t compromise, I’m so sorry your going through this

I think it's a tricky one whether to seriously think about leaving now or whether to hope he'll mellow in the future. I do know a few families where the children have dated/married against the parents' wishes and the parents have mellowed in the end. I imagine this is pretty common. In these cases the parents were first generation immigrants to the UK. But I guess the parental expectations were as much cultural as religious.

For example my white friend married a man from an African family (both Christian) and his parents were so upset that he wasn't marrying someone not only from his country but from his tribe that they didn't come to the wedding, but they've since mellowed and all get on.

And one of my friends is from an Indian Sikh family, and I think her parents thought she and her sister would marry men from their culture but they both married white British men and all is fine.

I guess it would depend for me on how reasonable he is in general, how much you think he might mellow in the future, how entwined he is with his family and religious community (versus wider community not of his religion), and what the culture/laws/main religion are in the country you live in. If you're living in a Western country then I do think these things tend to get less strict as each generation ages!

[quote Unoriginal43]@CrunchyCrump clearly you are getting your information from your partner and the country where you are. But some of these statements as a previous poster said are not correct.

There is a verse in the Quran that refers to covering of the head and bosom but actually interpretation of this is varied.

As with all of the text much of it is down to interpretation- which is why you have all types of Muslims. And indeed Muslim women - some of which are presidents of countries, dominating their fields, and part of everyday society as medics, teachers, police officers etc with and without head coverings.

You really need to educate yourself as it won’t be your husband oppressing your daughter but you with your ignorance[/quote]
Absolutely this.

You are letting your husband and his family insist on highly cultural - and personal - choices. They want to impose one particularly oppressive version of it. It’s not the only one.

There’s loads of information out there that can help you to say: no. That is not the truth. There are lots of other interpretations.

Why are you so scared to challenge them?

You're the person who gave her life. Do not allow a man to dictate or limit any child's life. Girls & women are not second class humans.

@Doidontimmm

What difference will leaving make though? He will still have fathers rights & access, maybe even 50/50?

It's better than her being forced into the religion 100% of the time and being treated as 'lesser' as the OP suggests

I'm sorry OP but I'm assuming Islam too and your husband is using your naivety to manipulate the situation.

I know Muslim women who don't cover their hair, who marry outside of their religion etc.

Religious texts were written thousands of years ago. They're not law.

Look, you made a bad choice and now you and your children have to live with it.

Too late to change things now. Even if you chose to leave him he will still be yor daiughter's father.

Just take it as a lesson learned. We reap what we sow.

If you’re talking about Islam then a lot of the interpretations are cultural. It doesn’t say in the Quran to cover hair. It’s just an interpretation of what is written and a reflection of those times.
Also there is no compulsion in Islam. Anything that anyone does must be done willingly.
I have Muslim friends who married men of other faiths. The friends who have very religious parents accepted their husbands after they did a simple proclamation to be accepted. Religion wasn’t really important to them so they had no objections to some lip service for family harmony.

If your dh is too rigid in his views then you have other choices than bringing your children up under his rule.

Honestly it seems quite awful to deliberately have children forcing your daughter into a religion that will control her and her life when you Havnt bothered to fully understand what it means for her, or even follow the religion yourself, so she won’t even have your full guidance or understanding. Why do you get a choice but she doesn’t? You can blame his religion all you want but it was your choice to bring a child into this set of draconian rules without following it yourself.

There is always a choice around interpretation OP. Do you think every Muslim woman lives an oppressed life? I live in a Muslim country (for work). There is a HUGE spectrum in terms of women’s dress and freedom. Many millions of women here live and dress and work and enjoy the exact same freedoms that I do. They all have fathers who are practicing Muslims (and are practicing themselves).

Your husband can celebrate his religion privately in his home. There is no need for him to go about telling people about his daughter and his personal life. The daughter is seperate to him, no one elses business and is entitled to her own beliefs and values. Punished how? Become a social outcast? so what.

@always2tired thank you so much for sharing your experience, I can’t tell you how grateful I am. I’m hoping for this exactly if I’m honest. I’ve spoken with my husband and the only differences between DS/DD would be the marriage/covering.

There are people who follow all mainstream religions without treating their daughters as second class citizens. I honestly can’t imagine what religion he is following.

But whatever his religion, you cannot accept this for your daughter’s sake or for your son’s (you can’t seriously have been ok with him growing up believing women are beneath him and shouldn’t have the same freedoms that he does?).

This is so sad. You are just as much to blame - you knew who you were marrying. But it wasn't just you you were deciding for - it was her, and that is so unfair. Your daughter is going to have so many struggles in her life, all the while seeing her brother grow up with none. In this day and age. I can't believe this shit still goes on legally because it is in the name of "religion". But you have clearly made your choice. I hope your daughter has the strength to break free the moment she can and never looks back - but my goodness she has got a tough road ahead and she hasn't even been born yet.

Calling it a religion doesn’t some make it justified abs acceptable. It’s just a system that men have set up so they can get women to do whatever they want.

I find it incomprehensible that you would contemplate subjecting your daughter to this sort of shit.