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Pregnancy

Talk about every stage of pregnancy, from early symptoms to preparing for birth.

See all MNHQ comments on this thread

Having a girl will divide us

476 replies

CrunchyCrump · 15/01/2022 06:52

I realise this is going to polarise a lot of people and I’m not sure what I’m looking for by posting, everything feels pretty dark at the moment so reaching out perhaps.

I’m expecting a DD in Spring after a DS. Because of my husbands religion, which I don’t share, she isn’t going to have the same freedoms in her choices that I’ve had. Having to marry into the religion for instance or conforming to religious dress.

Yes this was a discussion before we even married, but I’m now struggling with the lived version of an abstract thought. There’s no wiggle room either, if she doesn’t follow her father beliefs he will be punished for it.

I’ve spoken to DH, he does understand to an extent but when I ask for compromise he can’t meet me halfway on this because it’s so clear in his religion.

I’m so sad, it feels like this baby will cause us to separate and I don’t want that but at the same time I don’t know how I can accept a future where she doesn’t have a choice.

It’s my fault completely I accept that, I feel like I’ve screwed all of our lives up but I just can’t see a way forward.

OP posts:
Meraas · 15/01/2022 14:15

@Eustonhalf

There’s no wiggle room either, if she doesn’t follow her father beliefs he will be punished for it

What a horrific situation to bring a child into. Imagine knowing your father will be punished if you make choices freely. That's not freedom.

How could you do this to your daughter?

He won’t be punished for it 🙄 Because there is nothing to be punished for.

Op and her husband are the epitome of ‘ a little knowledge is a dangerous thing’.

Ozanj · 15/01/2022 14:19

[quote Meraas]@Somerandomshittyname

She eats non halal meat and chicken (if we eat out), purely so she has choice but we all eat halal at home, even me, just because it is easier.

Whilst I think people should observe as they see fit, I think eating halal at home and non-halal outside is one of the most pointless things I’ve ever heard.[/quote]
The child mentioned in that quote you referenced is from a mixed upbringing. They don’t have to fully follow either of their parents
religion. Besides that halal is more than just slaughter - it’s about cooking and preparation and context too. For example even pig meat can become halal in certain situations - for example if you’re in a place where you literally can’t find anything else to eat (all theoretical until you find yourself in a gap year trip in Asia and get stuck in a random poor village where the locals only have pig and maybe a bit of cabbage until harvest).

Ozanj · 15/01/2022 14:25

@Puzzledandpissedoff

I get that you are in a very difficult position and that it is only now that you realise that your DD will explicitly be treated very differently to your DS

That's the bit I don't get
It's not as if these practices and cultural expectations are any big secret, and muslims certainly aren't alone in encouraging them, but surely this is the kind of thing to discuss before having children or even before marrying?

It seems OP assumed her DP would fight for their kids and he clearly hasn’t. Similar situation with my Sikh Pastun school mate who married a Muslim Pashtun guy - everything was fine while they had daughters (they have four!) as cultural expectations were similar across both parents’ cultures. Then their much wanted son arrived and her DP, who thus far had been the most liberal guy ever, suddenly decided he ‘needed him circumcised. It took years of mediation to resolve and I think the only reason why they stuck together was because they had so many kids it would have been difficult for either of them to truly move on in their cultures.
Jk987 · 15/01/2022 14:27

You have 50% influence at the very least. Your husband doesn't decide. Therefore you let her wear what she wants and allow her to be atheist until she's old enough understand about religion and can decide for herself. Luckily she has you as her Mum so you can do something about it.

StarCourt · 15/01/2022 14:40

@CrunchyCrump I also married a man who was of Islamic faith and had a DD. I discussed it with him before deciding to try and become pregnant. He reassured me it wouldn't be a problem, I asked him lots of questions too.
Lo and behold I had a DD. He was straight on The phone to his family saying how disappointed he was that the baby was a girl!
3 years later we were divorced. DD is now 12 and 8 months ago she decided she didn't want to see her dad anymore.
I don't know if everything he said to me was a lie or not, or he thought he was keeping me happy. But he's made my and DD's life miserable so OP be very careful.

MagicKit · 15/01/2022 14:43

What if your DH wanted her to undergo FGM for his religion? Would you let that happen?

Don't force little girls to do what men expect of them under any circumstances.

Eustonhalf · 15/01/2022 14:49

14:15Meraas

I don't for one moment think he'll be punished. Did you think anyone on this thread really does? However they do and this is what their daughter will be taught. I'm afraid that's where it's at.

girlmom21 · 15/01/2022 14:53

@Eustonhalf

14:15Meraas

I don't for one moment think he'll be punished. Did you think anyone on this thread really does? However they do and this is what their daughter will be taught. I'm afraid that's where it's at.

She said his punishment would be not getting in to heaven. There's no 'actual' punishment- as in no repercussions from his peers
Sceptre86 · 15/01/2022 14:56

Your dh is a total hypocrite and had he been so devout should not have narried a non Muslim women. Being Muslim affects my whole being and I was raised that way by two parents, my m and dad had equal influence. Your dd will be massively influenced by you and since you are non Muslim I think you are being melodramatic. My dad isn't going to hell because my hair isn't covered! At some point you have to take responsibility for our own actions and their are many interpretations of text. You need to get out and do your own research, your introduction to being Muslim is solely through your dh and it sounds like he just does what suite him and picks and chooses. Find out more and educate yourself. Their really is no excuse for ignorance and blindly following your dh's lead in your situation.

I bloody well resent the way you think Muslim girls are raised. I was never limited by my sex and will not be raising my girls to be either!

Sceptre86 · 15/01/2022 14:58

*I should have used the correct there several times.

Ddot · 15/01/2022 15:16

It all depends on how devout his family are, plus how strict the mosque is he attends. The family can loose their honor and then nobody in the family can marry. Decades ago you lost your family, now its stricter or so I've been told by work mate

Ddot · 15/01/2022 15:25

Apparently if a man is praying and a dog or a donkey walk past his prayers are annulled so must start again. Also included with the dog and donkey are woman!

Kanaloa · 15/01/2022 15:28

@Ddot

Apparently if a man is praying and a dog or a donkey walk past his prayers are annulled so must start again. Also included with the dog and donkey are woman!
I thought it’s if anyone walks past? I read that if you see a Muslim person praying in a public place (I’ve seen it sometimes at airports) you should try not to walk directly in front/across them because it spoils their prayer. But if they put something in front of them like a rolled up blanket or something then it’s ok because it acts as a barrier.
Somerandomshittyname · 15/01/2022 15:41

@Meraas ok, tell that to my 3 year old currently at a kids party, where everyone else is eating non halal chicken. DH eats fish or veggie if we’re out and halal at home so I think your post is the most pointless thing ever tbh Grin

Ddot · 15/01/2022 16:10

Most devout religions treat woman as second class its just a form of control

Anotherviewtoyou · 15/01/2022 16:37

I think you have a duty to leave for your daughters sake and really for your sons too so he can be brought up to be a better person who doesn’t discriminate based on sex and who believes in equality.

Personally I would not have had children with someone like this - it doesn’t sound like your discussion pre marriage resolved anything so what was the point of it?

You need to leave.

Meraas · 15/01/2022 16:41

[quote Somerandomshittyname]@Meraas ok, tell that to my 3 year old currently at a kids party, where everyone else is eating non halal chicken. DH eats fish or veggie if we’re out and halal at home so I think your post is the most pointless thing ever tbh Grin[/quote]
How do you think other children cope?

Seems a bit confusing for your child but each to their own.

Somerandomshittyname · 15/01/2022 16:58

Dd doesn’t find it confusing at all, maybe it’s just you? Wink

toomuchlaundry · 15/01/2022 17:03

@Kanaloa, how far away do you have to be for it to become not a problem to disrupt someone’s prayer, 1m, 5m?

Ddot · 15/01/2022 17:33

Woman sit in a different room at the mosque, that's if their allowed in at all. The men get to go out have girlfriends wear what they like. I worked with a bloke who had just got married, I sat listening to him loudly bragging about his affair. I told him he was disgusting and how would he feel if his wife played away. He looked me straight in the eye and said I'd kill her

always2tired · 15/01/2022 17:37

My daughters do cover their heads most of the time but it was left up to them and they decided to do it of their own free will. They are proud of the fact that they come from two different cultures and embrace both.

LittleBearPad · 15/01/2022 17:40

Somerandomshittyname
@Meraas ok, tell that to my 3 year old currently at a kids party, where everyone else is eating non halal chicken. DH eats fish or veggie if we’re out and halal at home so I think your post is the most pointless thing ever tbh grin

How do you think other children cope?

Seems a bit confusing for your child but each to their own.

Do you think the three year you old even knows the difference??

Hottbutterscotch · 15/01/2022 17:56

My input comes from lived experience.

My husband is Muslim, I’m not. I was never asked to convert & I never would.

Our eldest child is a girl in early adulthood, then a few boys of primary age & now another small baby girl.

Your DH has married you & not asked conversion of you. Clearly he isn’t ignorant or unreasonable.
He mustn’t be the type to care too much about what his family think if you are his wife.
The ‘what a bastard’ comments are coming from posters prejudice. They’ve got very set preconceived ideas about Muslim men & this is a good opportunity for them to spew their nonsense.

Muslim men & women are not a monolith. They are as varied a people as any other group. No one expects Christian families to behave identically.

There are lots of non Muslim men treating their wives and daughters horrendously. The suggestion that all other men are raging feminists is hilarious and profoundly inaccurate.

Once your daughter is here your Husband will do everything in his power to love & protect her. As will all the other men in the family. Girls & women, from what I have seen for 25 years, are treated with kid gloves. The boys in the family are raised to be responsible for the girls too. If anything I sometimes think they get the raw straw because so much is expected of them versus the girls. My DD can ask anything of any of her cousins & uncles at any time and it’s done. When her brothers are old enough they will have to do whatever she asks. You will likely grow to feel annoyed about the expectations of your son more than your daughter.
There are of course families where wives and daughters are poorly treated but misogynists are everywhere. We all know that.

Covering hair is not oppressive. I know many many Muslim women & girls and none do so under duress. In fact they enjoy wearing the Hijab. There are so many lovely ways to wear one . To me they look beautiful, regal almost. Also, Muslim women are not the only ones to cover their hair but no one dares question anyone else.
OP you are thinking very far ahead on that one because she doesn’t have to wear one as a small child. You may not mind it by the time she’s ready to wear it. Modest dressing also isn’t oppressive. You can’t have a problem with dressing modestly because I assume you dress as such yourself.
A hijab is not a problem just as a kippah for a Jewish boy isn’t. Have a think about why that idea upsets you so much. Would it ruin your idea of your daughter being like you? A definite sign of her being different? They would be valid feelings and ones you could work through.

Marriage is a long long time away. I genuinely do not know a single family who have pushed to get their children married and our friends have children up to late twenties. What will likely happen is your DH will not settle for approving of anything less than a knight on a white horse. Muslim girls are so used to the princess treatment from all the men around them that they really don’t settle. Again this is a very long time away. You are hurting your own feelings thinking about stuff like that now.

Divorce will massively impact your children much much more than them being raised with culture and faith. That’s where you’ll do the damage. You don’t say anything to suggest your DH is a good man so why are you so sure that separation is inevitable. Is there more than you are saying?

I myself come from a mixed raced marriage. Perhaps why I understand how important it is to be raised with a deep understanding of who you are. Even if some of your husbands expectations are based on culture what’s wrong with that? Culture is good. It’s a a great source of pride for most and a grounding feeling to be part of something. I have come to realise that some people envy culture because they have none. They’re quick to ridicule & criticise. The cries of ‘this is so oppressive’ is absolute rubbish. They don’t care about your daughter or Muslim women. They likely don’t even know one. If you had said your husband was a devout Catholic you would definitely have gotten an altogether different response. If you had spoken of a Jewish DH you would have posts likely only from those who understand Judaism & then they’d be respectful but because your DH is muslim it’s a free for all. Be careful of the gaslighting and the faux concern.

Lastly, you are very vulnerable as a pregnant woman. I’m a bit irrational when I’m pregnant. The night before my delivery I sobbed like a toddler about not having the chance to wear a really nice maternity top I’d bought. It’s just a very intense time. In any situation now wouldn’t be the time to consider divorce. Just see how things go.

Wishing you a safe delivery of your lovely daughter

Anotherviewtoyou · 15/01/2022 18:01

@Hottbutterscotch how condescending of you to imply op’s very valid worries of her daughter being brought up in a religion that does not see women as equals as akin to you crying over not having a nice too to wear Biscuit you sound brainwashed in all honesty.

I’d rather my daughter be treated as an equal than a ‘princess’ however I think it’d an apt description - locked in an ivory tower unable to make her own choices. How sad.

JanisMoplin · 15/01/2022 18:06

I have culture in spades. ( I am not white British) I just chose to leave it/modify it because I don't think modest dressing and arranged marriages are anything to be proud of.

All this treating girls like princesses is just a cover up for how bad religion is for women and how great for men.