Rainbow Babies - New Mums Support Thread 1

[MOGMOGMOG85]

Wonderfully supportive thread for anyone pregnant after previous loss

[title edited by MNHQ at OP's request]

I use shields 50% of the time due to nipple sensitivity. It's not had any impact on him getting enough (I was also worried about this). But he has exceeded his birth weight now (2 weeks old), despite dropping wright twice in first two weeks. Had similar scenario where he was feeding almost hourly or more but a lot were very short feeds. He was having the right amount of wet and dirty nappies but the midwife reckoned he was potentially not feeding long enough to get to the fattier milk. So I had to top up every 3 hours with expressed milk over 3 days and that seemed to pile the weight on. I'm guessing they already told you to strip him fully before feeding and feed skin to skin to try keep him awake? I found I was struggling to express as much milk the more I did it and midwife said that was more likely to him getting more efficient with his feeds and taking supply from me.

Have they told you to use a smaller shield to accommodate his mouth size?? As if you are experiencing discomfort that will become even more uncomfortable for you. You don't want to do yourself a mischief. Xx

Thanks @AnxiousLady1 - my god am I ever anxious about this one. Its really reassuring to hear your experience. No they haven't given any advice re:skin to skin I will start doing that.

They didnt tell me about the size it's just I tried a different size with him and it wouldn't fit his mouth! I'm hoping he will grow relatively soon and I can upgrade... I dont mind a bit of discomfort for now it doesn't seem to be doing any damage touch wood (youd think I'd know after 24 hours of almost hourly feeds!). Getting him to sleep not on me is my big issue. He sleeps for a couple hours on me but max half an hour in his cot and that's if I'm lucky. Being alone at the hospital dealing with this is a nightmare!

How often were you pumping? Xxx

@MOGMOGMOG85 So I was advised to strip him down/change nappy/Do all feeds skin to skin. This was to try encourage him to wake properly and stay awake a little longer for the feeds - getting to the fattier milk. With the short feeds, the milk is more water and sugar (so they might not be totally full when going to sleep and wake again shortly after for feeding again). I was expressing every 3 hours or so. I was told to express after a feed but as he was on there nearly hourly that was difficult. I was told to top him up every 3 hours with 30ml, and more of he would take it. Sometimes he would guzzle 80 to 90 and I panicked that I wasn't able to pump enough to keep up. My boobs were so sore after a few days of that, but it seems to have done the job and as his weight increased I was told I could stop expressing. So I've reduced down to once a a day again, to top up before "bedtime" feed.

I know what you mean about the discomfort and focusing more on getting Errol fed. But be sure to take care of your boobs as they can get very sore very quickly. Use lots of lansinoh. And I recommend the multimam compresses. I also bought some lansinoh breast therapy pearl pads that can be used hot or cold. The hot seemingly helps if used alongside pumping to speed up milk let down. But both hot and cold also reduce pain and discomfort.

What they might not have said is, with the shields, sometimes the breast might not be drained as effectively. So try hand massaging them while you are feeding (especially where you might feel any hard areas). Also different positions get better results. I kept being advised to use rugby hold as it seemingly helps drain the breast better. 🤷‍♀️

Totally get why you would be stressed by all thus though. It's so hard to judge. But my main thought was once those nappies were on track and baby wasn't unsettled after feeding, that's a good sign they are getting enough.

Also I feel.your pain about the sleeping on you. I've similar situation. I'm tied to the couch /bed all day and night as he feeds so much and falls comfortably asleep on me. Second he's put down he's awake again. I was almost in tears earlier as I just wanted an hour nap but couldn't as I couldn't put him down. 🙈 At night the issue seems to be more reflux.

@AnxiousLady1 so pleased the feeding is going well now & the weight is piling on.

@MOGMOGMOG85 ah you poor thing, feeding is so stressful. I won’t add much advice, @anxiouslady1 has given you some great advice. You could try expressing and finger feeding if his mouth is small. The Kelly Mom website has loads of good info. Also don’t be afraid to ask for specific help at the hospital, they should have specialist feeding support, not just the ‘normal’ midwife. Lactation Consultants are also doing online sessions atm which is really useful if you’re stuck not being able to get to one.

L is gaining weight, but slowly. I’m topping up with formula, about 250ml over the day. We had her tongue tie revised last Thursday so working hard to get her tongue moving and getting her used to using it. I’d love to decrease the top ups but with my low supply I’m not sure if we’ll be able. Will see. She’s content & happy which is the important thing. I did look into donor milk for the top ups but I’m not sure how I feel about that...

@Avocuddles so pleased the op went well, hope you can now just concentrate on enjoying the baby cuddles.

Hope everyone else is doing ok x

Oh, @AnxiousLady1 I don’t know much about reflux but a friend put a folded towel under the head end of the mattress, so the baby wasn’t completely flat. That helped her reflux. DS only ever slept on me so I do feel your pain. I never managed anything else so I have no advice. Second child doesn’t have a choice!!! So she will sleep in the pram downstairs. We co sleep at night though as she likes being close. It’s intense to not be able to put a baby down. Only advice is to make sure DH takes it in turns to hold during a nap so you can have a lie down.

@MOGMOGMOG85 it’s so hard being in the hospital by yourself. Do you know how long you’ll be in? Is DH able to visit at all? If yes, are you able to rest while he has cuddles? It’s brutal doing it all alone. No advice, but sending a big hug xx

Thanks @tmc14! Our cot can be set at an incline but I am a little unsure of that now after reading online they advise against it 🙈 Will check with midwife at next visit. How did you and DH manage sleeping with baby on you all that time?? I'm so afraid of doing it at night time in case he falls off or one of us pulls duvet over his face etc. 🙈🙈🙈

@AnxiousLady1 I think I was just a zombie!! That’s not helpful. I would sleep with him on me, which is not recommended... but I’d kind of prop myself on pillows and he didn’t move. Once he started wriggling too much I managed to sleep with him next to me in bed, I’d curl around him. It wasn’t ideal. I would try and persevere with the naps, maybe by pushing the pram round, then just rocking it, in the hope they get used to it. Or use a stretchy sling so you can at least sit down without them moving.

@MOGMOGMOG85 was thinking, do you have access to a hospital grade pump, to keep your supply up and try other ways of feeding? Like syringe top ups? Keep bugging staff to help, don’t be robbed off (easier said than done I know) x

@AnxiousLady1 sorry I’m having really disjointed thoughts! In terms of safety & sleeping... my midwife advises me that while it’s ideal to follow all the guidelines, if you can’t it’s better to plan not to so you’re as safe as you can be. So, rather than fall asleep on the sofa with a baby on you (very unsafe) plan how to cosleep/sleep with baby on you in bed while minimising risks. If that makes sense.

@MOGMOGMOG85 I use shields 100% of the time as I have flat nipples and Amelia really struggles to feed due to that combined with her posterior tongue tie. We have tried without and she just gets really stressed and upset and can't feed. They are a little bit expensive but the breast feeding specialist we were referred to recommended modela shields and they have been great. They also told me to go for a bigger nipple size as the standard cheap ones I had been using were too small for my nipple and causing it to rub against the shield material which was making me really sore. I would ask to speak to a lactation specialist and see if they can recommend anything but try not to worry too much about using the shields x

How's everyone doing? 😁

@AnxiousLady1 surviving just about. Can't believe I'm a mum to a 3 month old now. It's going so fast. Little one is going through a growth spurt / wonder week I think and has been sleeping all day other than for feeds and not doing great overnight again for the last few days...we ended up with her in middle of the bed with us last night as it was the only way she would settle. Needless to say only one of us got sleep and me and hubby are like zombies today lol. Not looking forward to back end of the week as she has her 12 week jabs which made her feel really crappy at 8 weeks 😔 She is getting such a cheeky personality now tho and is properly finding her voice so has full blown babbling conversations with us now haha, it's super cute bless her. How are you doing?
Hope everyone else is doing well too x

Hi everyone - thanks for your advice re: feeding with nipple shields. Sorry I didnt' get back on here, I did try some things and my lansinoh pearl breast therapy pads just arrived today.

We have just had a couple of days of hell where I have been trying to reduce my bottle feeds and encourage Errol to suckle at my breast to increase supply. Today I've been trying to latch him without shields again and it seemed to work briefly but then failed again - he just cries and cries. Yesterday he was on my breast (with nipple shield) constantly from 9am until 5.30pm, not sleeping much, and at the latter part of the day just crying constantly. I mean he was on there constantly, I couldn't move or put him down. I don't know how much longer I can take this, I'm considering just bottle feeding. I'm so exhausted. I've been trying to get him to suckle, sometimes really pushing myself, then caving and bottle feeding because I can't stand to just see him hungry and crying all the time. I'm trying with shields, without shields, and not really finding time to pump except really occasionally - when I pump there is not much there maybe 20ml? I wake every 2 hours in the night and try to breastfeed him for half an hour before giving a bottle. Last night he choked on the bottle a couple of times which really freaked me out. I am just finding the whole feeding thing a total nightmare and today I have just been crying all day. I found this online www.mother.ly/child/youre-a-mother-not-a-failure-on-the-day-i-gave-up-breastfeeding and am wondering whether I need to give up breastfeeding - maybe it is getting in the way of me bonding with him - he is always hungry, always crying, and I feel like the only interaction I get with him is trying to get him to latch which we both hate. As a reminder he is 3 weeks now but spent 10 days in NICU being tube fed whilst I tried to express at the same time as seeing him in his incubator. He's been home just over a week now and success with the nipple shield comes and goes but latterly he seems to hate the shields. I'm in 2 minds - either I give up completely, or I try and see a lactation consultant, force myself to pump more often (I hate pumping), push myself harder. Its hard to know what the right thing to do is - all I know is I'm surrounded by tissues atm having been crying all day and he's currently asleep on my lap happy to have had a bottle whilst my breasts leak over everything. I feel so guilty and such a failure - I'm sure the sleep deprivation doesn't help. My partner is pissed off with me for being so fragile and not being more positive.

He is healthy and gaining weight at quite a pace, I should be happy. Feel my bonding is really being interrupted by this feeding issue but then if I stop I know I will feel torn up about having been so selfish.

Is there anyone else on here for whom breastfeeding just didnt' work?

Quick reply @MOGMOGMOG85 but sending massive hugs. My DS was mostly formula fed for various reasons. See a lactation consultant, you need some expert help if you want to continue to try breastfeeding. BUT - bottle feeding is fine, you can hug him, loads of eye contact, I never let anybody but me & DH feed DS so it was still our special time. It’s far better to enjoy your baby & bottle feed.

Only advice I have is I think it’s better to try latching after some formula so he’s not really hungry. Give a good chunk of his formula, then do skin to skin and reclined latching/side lying to maximise relaxing. Aim is to just latch, and comfort suck, no pressure. If he learns first to enjoy being at the breast it’ll more likely work. Keep pumping if you can (I hate pumping but am trying to cut down on supplements), just to keep some supply going. I never pump much, but I have a low supply anyway. Reducing formula should be really slow, I’m trying an ounce a day every four days.

Whatever happens Errol will be fine, stress & sleep deprivation won’t help your supply. After DS, this time I’m concentrating on just doing what I can with no expectations.

But get expert help, it makes such a difference xxxxx

Meant to say also, just being near your breast is great too, no even need to latch. Just try and get you both enjoying that bit if intimacy & closeness xxxx

@MOGMOGMOG85 sorry for the extra message, but I also wanted to say that I was exactly where you are with DS. I was struggling so much & didn’t know what to do for the best. Luckily DH intervened, took me to the lactation consultant and said I could continue on a two hour cycle of feeding/pumping/supplementing. She said of course not, it’s totally unsustainable. She worked with me to figure out what we were doing, how to improve, working with realistic expectations etc. Totally different to the ‘just feed feed feedI’ of the local breastfeeding group. I felt like she gave me permission to stop & just do what I could. Not sure if this will help but thought I’d share just in case. It’s so unbelievably hard and you’re doing an amazing job xxxx

@Sammilou2312 I understand what you mean about the say sleeping/night being more alert. I honestly felt like I fed non stop for hours last night and while it was fine initially, the longer it went on the more baffled I became by how long he was on there for. Even topped up with expressed milk thinking that might help top him up, but any attempt to settle him failed. I think I got about half hour of sleep. Be was only happy when on the breast (even if just snoozing). While I don't mind that, the sleep deprivation catches up with you and I get so worried about falling asleep while he's on me or in bed next to me. 🙈

@MOGMOGMOG85 You really are being put through the ringer. If it's any consolation I cried today for somewhat similar reasons to you. I got a bit fed up following night of no sleep, and just about getting 5 mins to get a quick shower (during which time he cried). I feel like I'm constantly feeding and if not feeding I'm essentially stuck on the couch as he will only settle if asleep on me or DH. This is now wrecking havoc on my back as well. And like you part of my frustration comes from fact that I worry whether it's inhibiting my bonding as I feel all I do is feed. It makes me feel unnecessarily frustrated with DH as he does all he can to settle him when upset but ultimately we know the quickest way to soothe seems to be on the breast. So while DH feels helpless at times, I am then feeling frustrated due to the endless hours stuck on couch. For me, the shields work best and he seems to actually struggle to latch without them.

@AnxiousLady1 how old is he now? Have a Google of wonder weeks to see if you were in one. I tend to find Amelia gets really cranky and cluster feeds loads when she has hit one and adjustment it's really normal.

@MOGMOGMOG85 I'm really sorry to hear you are having a tough time. I would echo what others have said. If you want to try to keep breast feeding please speak to a lactation adviser they can really help. Don't feel bad about using shields, if Errol won't take it without so be it, invest in at least 4 good shields (I can go through 4 in a night sometimes which is why I recommend this number) and use the shields. As I said on a previous post, Amelia can't really latch at all without the shields. We have tried numerous times but it just stresses and upsets us both so I've kinda resigned myself to the fact that we will be using shields for all feeds. On the other hand, if you want to make the switch to formula, do so... Don't feel guilty. I know folk say breast is best but really...FED is best. As long as you and Errol are feed, happy and healthy nothing else matters.

Does anyone else look at your baby and think how the hell did you get so big do quickly? I feel Amelia has grown into a small child instead of a tiny baby overnight lol (photo from a couple days ago when she was having a cranky day)

Thanks @Sammilou2312! He is just short of 4 weeks. I've had a look at the Wonder Weeks at your suggestion. Could be an explanation for his behaviour last couple of days. Definitely noted the changes in digestive system in that he's got so much more wind than he did in the first couple of weeks. And it does tend to upset him a bit. For the most part he is quite efficient at getting it out himself or when we wind him a little, but sometimes he gets so upset bless him. Do you manage to get Amelia to sleep in cot most of the time? I noted you mentioned having to put her in the bed last night. This little man will only settle when asleep on one of us for the most part. Get occasional hours in the cot if he's sleepy enough going in. But I get so worried about him being in the bed when I'm asleep. I fed this morning side by side and an totally drifted off. That scared hell out of me as I worry I'd suffocate him with my boob!!!! 🙈

I'm like you with the shields. I go to bed with several each night to have them all on hand. I started to use them due to nipple discomfort and it was 50-50 for the first couple of weeks to give my nipples a break. But I've noted in the last week he really struggled with latch without the shields now, and it makes him cranky. So I am opting for the shields automatically now more and more just to make it easier for him and less stressful for both of us.

Amelia has gotten so big!!! I can't get over how quickly they grow. The days definitely seem to totally fly by. With all the lack of sleep and constant feeds I find it can be really late afternoon before I even think of getting a shower etc. I resolved today that we need to leave the house every day. While the cocoon last few weeks has been good for bonding etc I don't think all the days blending into one are helping me mentally and it can't be good for him either. We get out for a short walk every few days but I feel it's not enough. That said I was recovering from a section as well. 🤷‍♀️

@AnxiousLady1 she refused point blank to sleep in her moses basket for the first 6 weeks, would only sleep on me. I ended up sat on our recliner propped up and surrounded by pillows but barely slept so hubby helped out where he could be giving me a couple hours at beginning of night where I could sleep and he stayed up with her then I would get back up as he went up to bed. As a general rule I tend to be able to get her into her own bed nowadays and she usually goes back down after her feeds... Last night was first time she's been in our bed and we have a king-size so there is loads of room but we were still on edge all night. She just kept crying out unless she could hold our hands or be cuddled. Do what you can to get through, nap during the day when you need to. It will get easier xx

Thanks @Sammilou2312. I guess in that case we should be grateful we've managed to get him to sleep on the cot at all! Even if it is only a couple of hours a day/night. This almost seems to be the exception to the norm. I almost feel like I need to go back and do more research on the 4th trimester as it's hard to not feel like you are failing in some respect when these different things crop up, which are actually totally the norm!

@MOGMOGMOG85 I have been where you are in terms of not knowing what to do with feeding and whether to just give formula. James fed ok but his latch was poor due to a tongue tie and he just didn’t put on enough weight so we started supplementing with formula and I expressed during those feeds. The midwives advice was offer breast, then express, then formula at every feed. But it just wasn’t sustainable and I never got much expressed milk anyway. After about 10 days and my nipples being ripped to shreds I broke down one night and told DH I couldn’t do it. He told me to have a break, just express and we introduced more formula. I just needed someone to say it was ok to have a break if I wanted. Then he started to put on weight but I felt very guilty. I never could express much and I found it so time consuming and soul destroying, being stuck on the end of a pump every three hours. Then I caught an infection so the pumping tailed off and in the end after a month we went on formula exclusively. Again I felt so guilty and felt I had to justify why I wasn’t breastfeeding to everyone. He’s now just over 5 weeks and fine, putting on weight nicely. I still feel bad he only got a few weeks of breast milk but ultimately I’m glad he got that and he’s definitely getting plenty of food now. Mum guilt is the worst though, not helped by some HCPs who just tell you to persevere. But when you’re dying from no sleep, your nipples are in bits and you’re hating every minute, persevering is not always the way. I was much happier once I made a decision either way.

@AnxiousLady1 I have done so much reading about the 4th trimester. James sleeps ok in his Moses basket for a couple of hours but then becomes unsettled and wants to sleep on me. If he does, we can get another couple of hours out of him, sometimes an extra 3 hours but it means I’m sat in bed holding him for hours, too scared to drop off to sleep. I spend half the time holding him as he won’t settle like that on DH. DH was getting frustrated that he wouldn’t settle for him so I told him about the 4th trimester and we’ve both done a huge amount of reading on it. It’s all normal apparently, all they know is warm coziness and our smells and heartbeats so it makes sense that’s what they want now. Just makes for little sleep and bad backs!

Hi everyone! We're doing pretty well, India is 10 weeks and just over 10lb now - she's still fitting into most of her newborn size clothes but seems huge and so alert compared to just a few weeks ago. Photo below of her modelling a Christmas outfit because she's just so darn cute...

@MOGMOGMOG85 I'm sorry to hear you're having such a tough time. I was close to breaking for the first three weeks until she finally got back to her birth weight, things did get better in time but I was very close to calling it quits for the sake of my mental health more than anything. There's no shame at all in switching to formula, you've given it your all so if you do reach the point where that is the most sensible option then you should take pride in everything you've done. If you do want to continue persevering with breastfeeding then getting an appointment with a lactation consultant would be an excellent idea. Either way you are an amazing mum. In retrospect I really struggled to bond with India in the first three weeks, the very act of keeping her alive seemed so stressful and I struggled to take pleasure in just being with her when the pressure felt so high. It does and will get better I promise you, the current lockdown situation really doesn't help though as it's hard to not feel isolated / unsupported without the usual networks in place.

@SammiLou2312 Amelia is gorgeous and looks so grown up! It feels like we're always going through a leap, based on her due date India is coming up 9 weeks so think we're still in leap 2, lots and lots of feeding and sleeping! It's amazing to see her becoming more alert and learning new skills every day though,

@AnxiousLady1 how was your sleep last night?
We're lucky with night time sleep, India spends the whole night (10pm to 8am ish) in her snuzpod bedside crib with just one feed in the night. I am terrified of co sleeping so very glad that she's happy in her own space but completely understand why many people choose to.

@Shefliesonherownwings how old is James now? I feel you re bad backs - whilst she's great at night (on the whole....), India wants to spend all day every day on me either feeding or napping. The only respite is when we go out for a walk so I live for dry / only slightly drizzly days! Interestingly my DH is the most successful at getting her to settle in her cot - I tend to shut my eyes and leave him to it!

@shefliesonherownwings What we find works for us, with getting him to settle on DH, is I feed him first, then he falls asleep on me, and after 20 mins or so, when I'm happy he's fully asleep, I will gently hand him over to DH and he will continue to sleep on his chest. We can easily get a couple hours like that when lucky. Sometimes it doesn't work, and he will wake and get upset fairly quickly again and I've to be prepped to get boob back out quickly to soothe. So we repeat the cycle. But might be work having a go if you haven't already. With regards to sleeping in the cot, it's definitely the moro reflex that's the issue for us. Can't seem to swaddle well enough to contain his flappy limbs. Its actually nuts how instantaneous it is from second he goes into the cot/on his back!

I totally hear you on the bad back btw. I've really noticed it in the last week. Its all the sitting on couch/awkward feeding positions coupled with lack of real exercise I think.