Child tax credit is it true ?

[Coreynkayden]

Iv seen people sharing things about no money will be giving to families that are expecting there 3rd child after today does anybody know if this is true ?? I understand price cuts to help but i dnt see how me and my kids are going to suvive on the money i get wen my baby is here we only jst manage now :(

Lookattheflowers has it

Nobody seems to be thinking about or tackling why poor people keep having children when they can't afford them.

Quite simply it's about the only decent exciting thing in their lives. No holidays, no gap year in Europe, no hope of anything at all really. But a new baby is free and one of life's best experiences.

Give kids aspiration, give them something else to experience, give them hope of something better than just another baby to love.

give kids aspiration, give them something else to experience, give them hope of something better than just another baby to love

Like what? I'm not trying to be obnoxious, but if what people are getting at is that well meaning programmes should pave the way to introduce children to ballet, Shakespeare, pottery and gardening that's already been done and for the most part, has dramatically missed its mark.

I am always curious to know exactly what people mean by 'low/no aspirations' because to put it another way it's 'an ordinary life.' There isn't a deep psychological need for more than two children that only affects the poorer members of society.

' There isn't a deep psychological need for more than two children that only affects the poorer members of society.'

Actually there is. I mean, it's not quite that simple, but for lots of people it's a combination of their upbringing, their social circle, lack of choices, general expectations. And as WooMe says, having a baby is a 'free' joyful experience to a lot of people in an otherwise pretty joyless lifestyle.

I don't think it's been that well publicised. I thought at first that anyone already in the system would get the extra for the third or more children. But it appears not. And that it will be treated as a new claim. I agree for the most part with this change. People have to learn not to rely so much on the taxpayer to support them financially.

Minimum wage is what, around 13k a year?

I'd like to see some of the posters here support a family on that.

Remove top ups and you are basically saying that 'poor' people (i.e. Shop workers, cleaners, factory workers etc) can't have children.

Wages are too low and the cost of living is too high. That's the problem. Not the relatively minuscule cost of benefits.

Save your ire for the big businesses not paying tax, or the CEOs on millions while their workforce is paid NMW.

Minimum wage for a forty hour week is £15,500 p/a.

Two parents working this would bring in just over £30,000 p/a.

Rather than maintaining the top ups I think the onus should be on raising the minimum wage.

But again, do you feel companies should increase people's pay per child?

No, I think companies should pay more in general. And there should be better incentives for working people such as subsidised childcare and better maternity packages.

At the same time we should be supporting the people who are unable to support themselves.

The true 'benefit families' with generations of wilful unemployment and huge broods are a tiny tiny proportion of people.

£2k odd a year for most people here on MN is chump change. We pay more than that for DD's riding lessons for e.g. To suggest that's the reason they don't have another child is ridiculous really. But to a family on full benefits it could be the difference between eating and heating. Ditto for the working poor.

There's a large middle range between being unable to support yourself, and having more than two children.

Theres little point in all of this vitriol is there? The OP has already "lost" that money so a big fat round of applause there. I bet it tastes just utterly delicious to be able to type "can't feed em, don't breed em"...oooh, how exciting it must be, the thrill that runs down the spine as you kick a person when they're down; the wetness of the pants of one who can say " I can't afford to have more children so I don't..[wah, not fair]"

To sum up it seems like a small percentage of cheeky feckless freeloaders have ruined things for some very hardworking but struggling families.

Couldn't agree more, you did mean the tory party right?

"I don't know how the OP lives, hence me not commenting on it. I made no comparison between our lives whatsoever. I don't assume to know how other people live. I disagreed with your comment about people being 'comfortable'."

You might not have made a comparison. But loads of people did. They said "I don't get benefits and I can't afford another kid. Why should it be different for them"
Thats a comparison.

The you jumped in and took issue with my use of the word "comfortable"

And I agreed with you to an extent. I aknowledged that you might be struggling. And then I said that your struggle will not be the same.

Because it isn't.

If someone is above the threshold for tax credits then, by definition, the tax credits claimants (with the same household composition) will be getting topped up to (at most) their level of income. Possibly they will be getting topped up to much less.

When you have people on relatively higher incomes justifying benefit cuts on the basis of "I have to make financial choices too"- its just not a rational or fair argument.

Thats what i was having a go at. If thats not you then fine.

TonySopranosVest Love that post 🤗 Too many people enjoy kicking others when there down!

It will teach people that they should be working to look after their kids instead of sitting around letting other people pay for it. I'm glad its come in, have worked since I left school and I'm due to have my first baby and will be going back to work as soon as I can after the birth. If you can't or won't work, dont have kids

unlimiteddilutingjuice I didn't make a comparison. I didn't comment on the benefit cuts. I didn't say anyone's struggle was the same. I commented on your choice of words which I didn't agree with so didn't understand your reply.
I just don't agree that people on a household income of £40,000 (which I believe is the threshold) or above can automatically be classed as 'comfortable'.

I truly honestly did not intend any of my posts to be kicking others when they're down.

I just can't get my head around wilfully bringing children into the world when you know you're bringing them into a life of poverty.

To me it's just common sense. Why would you? Isn't it selfish and irresponsible to do so? I don't mean any of this as a mindless insult. I just can't imagine it.

I grew up poor, no tv or new clothes or holidays by the way. I'm not a silver spoon poster, I live in a small 2 bed house. I'm not rich, or even particularly comfortable.

OP I'm sorry you're having a tough time.

As to those 'don't have em if you can't feed em' comments - get some bloody empathy. The children are there, don't take it out on the kids. No child should live in poverty. Some people need a hand financially sometimes. Living on benefits is not easy or glamorous or luxurious. Try it before you slag people on benefits off.

We got pregnant with me and my partner with really good jobs, his better than mine and he got made redundant then 5 weeks later I did luckily we got straight into new jobs so only struggled for a month and luckily we had savings! but it's nice to know that if we hadn't of had that we could of got some sort of help until we got a new job! Maybe our government should help more with Nursery fees for people who want to work instead of giving all the hours to people who don't! Half my wage goes on our daughters childcare just so we can work!

" I can't afford to have more children so I don't..[wah, not fair]"

Assume whatever voice you want. if you geel being so xhildish helps People do have to make that choice.

It's very easy to say two people on min wage earn 30k a year.

Unless the dad has walked out and you're on a zero hours contract, or your kids get sick and you have to take a few days off work.

Oh if it was that simple

Would my parents be proud/agree....yeah, they definitely agree with me as I've spoken to them about this. I grew up in a very poor household, one of four children. My parents got cb but that was it. My dad worked every single hour he could and my mum had part time jobs that fitted around us being at school. We had a good few birthdays when we had homemade presents as my parents couldn't afford to buy them. My parents wrote shopping lists that had to be stuck to and would take a calculator round with them to add it all up as they shopped so they didn't have the embarrassment of not being able to afford even one pound over budget. You know what though, I had a fab childhood and I appreciate so much how hard my parents worked. My dad now owns a successful business coz he worked bloody hard and now him and my mum are very, very comfortable. So yeah, I know what it's like to be poor and yep, still stand by that you shouldn't have kids you can't afford.

I also get the whole 'having a baby is lovely and free' thing. I absolutely love being pregnant, I absolutely love the baby stage and of course like everyone else I absolutely love my children but again, I won't have more coz I can't afford to. And to those saying 'you can afford them, just not to the quality of life you want for them' well yeah. If we wanted to pinch every penny we could have another child but I am not that selfish that I would make the children I already do have miss out coz I want another baby. Coz that is selfish.

Just want to point out again. These cuts do not effect existing children. They aren't taking away from children already born, they are simply saying they can't keep giving to those having larger families. How is that not fair?