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Talk about every stage of pregnancy, from early symptoms to preparing for birth.

Summer Babies for the Sub-Fertile II

737 replies

Bear2014 · 03/04/2017 09:25

Hi ladies, new thread right here xx

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mistletoeprickles · 04/08/2017 10:28

lolly I bet your doing an amazing job. I had forgotten how hard one baby is let alone two!

Not long bear Flowers

RafflesMaidenSister · 04/08/2017 10:45

Lovely to hear from you all. Lolly you must never stop! Hope you are enjoying it.

Hope all good with you Mistletoe and Fraggle.

You hanging in MrsCrab and Bear? Just waiting to see consultant. I have stern face on again. I want that 39 week induction Grin

Lolly2803 · 06/08/2017 09:42

Aw Bear not too long to go. Do you have a date? Bet you can't wait to get your mobility back again!
Yes it's pretty tough. When they want the same thing at the same time I just don't know what to do! Just trial and error I think but yes they are absolutely gorgeous so that definitely gets me through it.
Hang in there Raffles! Let us know what they say. Hopefully they'll listen to you!

How is everyone else getting on?

Bear2014 · 06/08/2017 11:12

Hi all, hope you're bearing up. Lolly I bet you're super mum by now! Hope baby Mistletoe and baby Fraggle are getting on great too.

I'm 39 weeks today! Totally gigantic and incapacitated - ha ha. I literally can't do anything. 4 more days to go and it can't come soon enough Grin

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FraggleRock77 · 06/08/2017 16:13

Hello all. I really feel for you Bear! Nearly there! Good luck MrsCrab and Raffles! We came home yesterday after a four day stay in hospital. Don't know where time has gone! Having a term baby rather than a prem is a lovely experience at present. I'm still swollen and sore but knocking back pain meds and grateful to not be pregnant. Tubes now tied so never again for me x

RafflesMaidenSister · 06/08/2017 17:23

Congrats Fraggle - enjoy every minute of it.

Baby still big but has linear growth so guess that's good. Friday's consultant was yet another new one and surprise surprise not keen on induction. Only good point they made was that an induction can fail. Suggested bringing me back at 39+4 for cervical assessment then induce a week later. I am adamant I'm not going over 40 weeks - have been told by 2 other consultants that IVF placentas 'wear out' sooner and don't see a substantial downside to trying to induce before 40 weeks - if I end up with a section I do. Waiting gives no guarantee I won't get one anyway.

So have an appointment for cervical assessment at 38+4. If nothing doing I can have a sweep then and/or at 39 weeks, the latter already promised by the community midwife. They'd then reassess for induction/csection at 39+4, which is cutting it fine (I know 40 weeks is only a number and risk doesn't magically increase at midnight on first day of fortieth week) but hopefully won't come to that and I'll be able to get it all going before then.

They kept telling me I need to make an informed decision, which is what I'm trying to do. Have been using sleepless nights to look at various guidance and studies on IVF, induction, due date, csection and still birth, mostly NICE guidelines and reports but RCOG also have a useful section for the public that summarises evidence and studies including ranking the quality of the study from 1 - 7. I feel like a complete dick for not just doing as I'm told, but I couldn't bear going over and then for something to happen.

If anyone can suggest any other reading let me know.

How're you doing Bear and MrsCrab? X

Bear2014 · 06/08/2017 19:35

Glad it's going well Fraggle, must be great to have had such a short hospital stay this time.

Raffles our hospital don't let IVF pregnancies go overdue, I never knew the reason though. Generally if you stand your ground on anything like this you get them to listen so don't budge. In my case it was always a secondary issue behind baby position, previous c-sec considerations etc.

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MrsCrabtree · 06/08/2017 22:35

Glad you're home Fraggle and enjoying your new baba! Wishing you a fast recovery too.

Raffles it sounds like you are being very thorough in your research. I had no idea IVF pregnancies shouldn't go overdue, no one has ever mentioned that to me! I thought they were same as normal unless you're high risk for some reason. Hmmm. Could you post a link to the guidance you think is most helpful? They suggest you are induced at 42 weeks here, and i was planning to go along with that. I was expecting to go a bit overdue (mainly cos my mum did, I think, and lots of friends with their first babies) but obviously I don't want it to be dangerous. I have been worrying about stillbirth (always something to worry about) so I don't want to put myself more at risk...

RafflesMaidenSister · 07/08/2017 10:11

MrsCrab - please don't let me upset or worry you - I understand either way the risks are small. I just don't want any increased risk, which is, perhaps, silly. The way I see it, I am being sold a natural birth as a "birth experience" (FFS - it's not a theme park). We found out I was pregnant 4 years and 5 days after we started trying (and I know this is not long in comparison to many). I had, to an extent, made my peace with never having children, let alone not having a natural birth. I don't give a crap what I "experience" I just want my baby to be OK. And if I can slither off a few tenths of a percentage point of risk by induction/caesarean/walking naked through the town centre screaming obscenities, I will. Completely understand you may feel the same way, or might quite reasonably be a bit saner about it Grin

I have to confess I had done little research into my consultant's assertion that IVF placentas "wear out" quicker. What I have been told is that, at both hospitals I've been at, they were (initially) adamant that they would not let me go over 40 weeks, but I wasn't told the reason for this - and was a bit mystified - until we moved to the new hospital and the first consultant I saw there explained that for some reason - they don't know why - IVF placentas don't seem to last as long as non-IVF ones, so that there is a greater risk of placental insufficiency at the end of the pregnancy.

The only mention of this that I have been able to find in studies etc (bearing in mind I am not a scientist and have been a complete "google warrior" here) is the following:

www.theguardian.com/society/2014/jan/08/ivf-babies-risk-complications-study
americas.evipnet.wikibvs.org/img_auth.php/e/ef/7.pdf
www.researchgate.net/publication/230879544_Reproductive_Outcomes_After_Assisted_Conception
journals.lww.com/co-obgyn/Abstract/2007/04000/Reproductive_outcomes_after_in_vitro_fertilization.4.aspx

But they appear to be mostly meta analysis of other studies covering a variety of perinatal outcomes. Basically, from reading these I think the potential issue might be that IVF babies are at greater risk of still birth and placental abruption (and there now seems to be evidence to suggest that this is not simply linked to the underlying reasons for infertility). Babies that go beyond term are also already at greater risk of still birth, and I assume it is a combination of these two factors that mean some NHS trusts (and I know it is not all) prefer to induce at term in IVF pregnancies. The fact that IVF pregnancies can also be more precisely dated may also be relevant, but that is me extrapolating from one of the articles below, so could be wrong.

I have then gone on to look at the outcomes for induction at, or slightly before, term. This analysis is very interesting re increased risk of csection following induction:

evidencebasedbirth.com/evidence-on-inducing-labor-for-going-past-your-due-date/

If I've read it correctly (and I may not have done), there doesn't seem to be a statistically significant increase in sections following planned induction, but there is a statistically significant increase in sections following induction after "expectant management" (i.e. monitoring past due date).

The RCOG information also seems to support this:

www.rcog.org.uk/globalassets/documents/guidelines/scientific-impact-papers/sip_8.pdf (in particular see paragraph 2.6)
www.rcog.org.uk/globalassets/documents/guidelines/scientific-impact-papers/sip_34.pdf

The latter may not be relevant to you - I am 36 shortly so while not AMA I'm on the older side - but it contains an interesting paragraph on induction between 37 and 41 weeks, which appears to apply generally and not merely to older mothers (at bottom of page 4 - helpfully no paragraph numbers in this!). It says:

"There is increasing evidence that induction of labour from 37 weeks of gestation also improves perinatal outcomes without increasing rates of caesarean section. This goes against the commonly held belief that induction of labour leads to an increase in caesarean section rates. Studies alluding to the latter have compared elective induction of labour (without medical indication) with spontaneous labour..."

To be frank, quite happy to end up with section if that's the way it goes, though.

The NICE guidelines on induction and section are here:
www.nice.org.uk/guidance/CG70 (they don't specifically mention IVF and, interestingly, don't support my NHS trust's policy of offering membrane sweep at 39 weeks)

www.nice.org.uk/guidance/cg132

I hope this helps and I'm sorry if any of the information upsets anyone. That was not my intention.

Bear, thanks for the support. I think your situation highlights why I feel like such a tool. Basically, you have a recognised reason for needing the intervention that you need. I am in a situation where the advice is different dependent on who you speak to, and unless I get the "right" doctor at each appointment I am going to have to fight. Given that the advice from medical professionals is contradictory, I just want to take the most cautious approach.

Sorry all for the essay. Hope everyone is getting on well. X

MrsCrabtree · 07/08/2017 10:49

Thank you so much Raffles, that is really really helpful. You haven't scared me at all, I already scare myself so having more info is better! That's so weird no one has mentioned to me about the research around IVF placentas etc, Im going to swot up on that. And also interesting about the outcomes of induction - I feel like NCT and the like make it sound like the devil's work Hmm This is going to help me feel more knowledgable.

LOL at the idea of you running through the town naked haha. I know what you mean 100%. We have waited so long for this moment. Hope you're feeling armed and prepared to get what you want from your consultant, certainly sounds like you're making an informed decision to me xxx

Bear2014 · 07/08/2017 11:39

Hi Raffles wow it's so impressive that you're so clued up from having done so much research. They really should listen to you after all that, and can't say you're not making an informed decision. Don't feel like a tool - my hospital don't let IVF ladies go overdue as I mentioned, and nor do Guys and St Thomas'. They're both leading institutions so may be worth mentioning.

I know some experts don't like anyone to go too overdue due to declining placentas but as naturally conceived babes basically have guestimated due dates you can't get too srict. I understand it is a small risk though, and the placenta declining will normally trigger labour.

Try not to let NCT and the like scare you about induction. I have heard of more good inductions than bad ones I think.

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Bear2014 · 07/08/2017 11:41

Kings is our hospital by the way

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RafflesMaidenSister · 07/08/2017 17:02

Thanks, Bear, knowing that about Kings (wish it was my hospital!) etc actually makes me feel better about pushing for induction before 40 weeks. Hope you are surviving your last few days. Bet you can't wait to meet your lovely baby now.

MrsCrab, I think (from Wikipedia) that the NCT was established as the "Natural Childbirth Trust", and so likely do still support a natural approach. Nothing wrong with that - but it's only one point of view and I wouldn't let it put you off anything that might work for you. Good luck with getting to the bottom of what will work best for you - it's so difficult to know, isn't it?

Hope everyone else is doing well.

RafflesMaidenSister · 09/08/2017 15:02

Bear, just wanted to say good luck for tomorrow - which I think is your date!

Hope it all goes well and wishing you a quick recovery. X

MrsCrabtree · 09/08/2017 15:22

Yes good luck Bear!! Let us know when you are in a fit state to.

Hope you're hanging in there raffles. When's your next appt?

I see the midwife tomorrow and then again at 40 weeks (and then 41) and that's it for me, all being well...

This rain's a bit tedious isn't it?

Lolly2803 · 09/08/2017 15:34

Good Luck Bear!!!!!

Bear2014 · 09/08/2017 15:37

Thanks all! I'm going in at 7:30 am and they assure us that electives are nearly always done by midday so shouldn't have too much waiting around. I'll check in with you ladies as soon as I can.

Hope everyone is really well Smile

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imen33eastlondondoula · 09/08/2017 17:21

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FraggleRock77 · 09/08/2017 20:53

Good luck Bear xxx

RafflesMaidenSister · 10/08/2017 11:27

Hope Bear is getting on OK!

MrsCrab, I'm 37+3 today. Next appointment a week tomorrow (38+4). I'm hoping things get going sooner though - my pelvis hurts so much I can barely walk. On the plus side, my attempts so to do are probably hugely amusing for passers by - I look like the ill-fortuned offspring of John Wayne and a duck.

MrsCrabtree · 10/08/2017 14:27

Haha Raffles good description! I hear you on the walking front. I look like a right muppet! I'm over 38 weeks now but Midwife today says baby isn't engaged at all yet so she thinks I'll go over Hmm it's what I thought anyway to be honest. I will try to go with the flow...

Thinking of you Bear - hopefully baby is safely here by now!

How you getting on Fraggle and Mistletoe?

Bear2014 · 10/08/2017 16:18

He's here! Alexander arrived at 11:30 this morning. No wonder my pregnancy has been hard work recently - he weighs 11lb1!!

Will read posts properly soon, hope all is well 👍

Summer Babies for the Sub-Fertile II
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RafflesMaidenSister · 10/08/2017 16:42

Congrats - he's gorgeous! Hope you are feeling ok. Imagine csection recovery is tough but bet your body will be relieved to not be carrying over an extra 11 lbs, albeit 11lbs of loveliness!

MrsCrab my sister's two both didn't engage until labour so you may still be in luck!

Let us know how you're getting on Bear (and Fraggle, Lolly, Blue). Xxx

MrsCrabtree · 10/08/2017 16:48

Wowee congrats Bear! Hello Alexander, how gorgeous are you!

He's definitely a good size Bear, well done to you Grin hope you're being well looked after x

FraggleRock77 · 10/08/2017 17:52

Wow! Wow! Wow! Bear! Congratulations! He's gorgeous. No wonder you've been struggling. Wishing you a speedy recovery xxx

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