Noisy toddler next door

[Sukie272]

I live in a small flat and my next-door neighbours have a toddler who is about 2. This child seems to stay up all night as well as most of the day- he screams, cries, yells, bangs toys on the walls and runs around their flat constantly, until around 3am.
The walls are very thin, so he wakes me up repeatedly. After 6 months of being woken 4-5 times a night (the sound of him running on hardwood floors sounds like someone is hamnering nails into the floor) I complained to landlord. He agreed this level of noise at night is unacceptable and spoke to the family. For a few weeks the noise calmed down and they seemed to make an effort to keep him away from the partition wall at night, but now the noise is unbearable again.
I've tried politely talking to the parents (who are Eastern European and don't speak much English), I've also put leaflets under their door about SureStart and other sources of help. At times I bang on the wall in desperation. I just want some peace and quiet!
Is it normal for a 2-year-old to cry for several hours every day, and to run around screaming for hours at a time, several times a night? I'm worried he may be being abused/neglected... should I contact Social Services? The parents rarely take him out of the flat, so maybe he is just bored?
I'm in first trimester of pregnancy and currently off work sick, so I can't escape the noise even in the daytime. I feel so angry that these people let their child cause such a disturbance! Earplugs make little difference, and I can hear him in every room in my flat, even though my bedroom is not next to the partition wall.
What can I do about this? Does anyone have a similar experience?

I think you are unnecessarily getting a hard time on here op. I don't think it's normal to have a toddler running around at the times of the night you describe in the quantity with those types of noise. It's normal for toddlers to have unsettled periods but this doesn't sound like a phase.

I'm not sure if you said that you live in rented property or not? If so I would suggest you talk to your land lord, see if they can help.

this is a wind up now.

OP you are clearly a busybody not interested in what anyone who's experienced this has to say but want to continue leafleting the poor family anyway.

Haven't you put enough leaflets through their door?
Children are noisy and inconsiderate. It's part of their job description. Get used to it for when their kid is trying to do his homework and yours is creating merry hell. Because it will happen, believe me.

What is it about leaflets ?

If you insisted on posting leaflets through my door I would not be amused , it must come across as very passive aggressive .

You can't keep a child contained in a cot or play pen unless you put a 'roof' on top & as for safety gates they are merely but an obstacle that takes two seconds to climb .

I think you should keep your nose out , if they were that bad other neighbours would of complained & something would be done.

People never have much sympathy in threads like these.

But I'm telling you, when you work 13-16 hour shifts and have to get up after hearing next doors kid crying all night it kills you

I agree Ineedtimeoff. I don't think parents are inevitably helpless in the face of toddler behavior and I had a seriously willful toddler. There is no way banging on walls at three in the morning is normal for a child that age, of course you can't stop children from starting to do stuff like that but any reasonable parent would attempt to intervene/distract/remove.

OP please come back when you have a toddler and regale us with your expertise on child restraint and quietening

Can you hear the parents disciplining the child at all OP? We have a similar issue but with an older child and 3 dogs ... and you can hear the parents shouting up to answer the child but never in reprimand ... We've approached them about the noise to no avail so I understand your frustrations ... All you can do is approach the landlord again and remind them of their agreement. I have 3 under 14 myself and am more conscious of the noise levels and from 9pm you don't hear a peep from mine as they are in bed, sleeping yet still at 1am you can hear the demands being shouted and answered and dogs barking every time someone shouts next door ... frustrating as it is there will always be some who are too ignorant and selfish to admit they cause an issue ... you need to put it back into the hands of the landlord and or the council if they own the flat of your neighbours

I now have a 16 month old and my whole bloody life is spent trying to minimise the disruption he causes. He was up for two hours in the middle of last night and I was up too, not just letting him roam around banging stuff, but trying to get him to go to sleep. That is the sort of thing most of us do, isn't it?

If a parent posted that their child was behaving like the child mentioned in the OP, all night long, they would get sympathy and acknowledgment that something needed to change, not a lot of shrugging and the implication that toddlers will be toddlers and there is absolutely nothing that can be done to help modify their behavior. People would want to help, and rightly so.

I think the OP is getting s tough time here, and I say that as the DM of a 2 year old.

It might be normal for a toddler to wake up and cry at 3am, but not to be running around and banging on walls every night at that time.

Ye Gods. Some toddlers might be like this some if the time. But nightly, for hours, at that level of noise? Sounds very unusual.

Complain. Then complain some more. And then move.

Stop with the leaflets, you may be well meaning but I guarantee you are making a bad situation even worse. No parent wants their child up all night, banging on walls, etc, so odds are high that they can't stop it for whatever reason.
If you can't live with it, move.
If you want to help, befriend the mum and offer to take the kid to the park so the poor woman can get some sleep because I guarantee that however badly you are suffering, she is worse.
I understand it must be frustrating, but I think you need to leave it now. Flats are very noisy. My niece is as quiet and timid as a mouse and yet her next door neighbours have mentioned her being too loud too. I think there is a bit of naïveté on your part to be honest, and if you go much further I think you will end up feeling awful about past actions when your baby is acting the same way in a couple of years.
If there is genuine evidence of abuse then absolutely report, but as you've said there is none, I would leave it now.

Totally agree with MrsCs. I think you're getting an unnecessarily hard time on here op. I've been through the toddler stage twice now, and as others have said, banging on walls and running round the house in the early hours are not normal behaviour. We all go through bad patches, but all the time? No. If it's really true that the child is never taken out, he must just be bored out of his mind. Sadly though I doubt there's much you can do.

I can imagine it's a difficult decision whether to restrict your child's freedom to run at night (and trigger screaming) or let them run noisily and wake everyone up.
Maybe if you have carpets or lino the running is less of an issue. When my neighbours' toddler runs at night, it sounds like someone is repeatedly striking the floor with a hammer...it wakes me up with a jump every time. It is infuriating, especially as he then gets overexcited and starts screeching and yelling whilst running! He then frequently falls over, leading to screaming and crying followed by more running. This goes on for hours, often until 3am. I would much rather they just let him cry in his cot/bedroom with stairgate until he learns that nighttime is for sleeping!
Surely it is better to get your child into the habit of staying in his bed/cot at night asap rather than letting him run around? Even if it takes time to enforce the routine. Surely a few nights/weeks of crying is better than 6 months of charging around the flat all night, disturbing everyone who has the misfortune to live under/next to you? I cannot imagine letting my child run around all night just because he wants to, especially if I know it's waking my neighbours.

And what happens when the child starts playgroup/nursery/school and has to get up early? Would you still let him stay up all night running and then be exhausted for school/nursery?
To say you cannot contain your child in one room at night suggests laziness and a lack of effort.

It is true I have little firsthand experience of parenting toddlers (this is my first baby), but i do have a few close friends with toddlers and young children. They all have strict bedtime routines that are effective. To me, this is evidence that sleep routines are achievable (at least with some children). When my friend recently stayed at my flat she was horrified that the toddler next door stays up all night.

Speaking as the mum of a toddler, yes he's noisy and yes he's wilful. But, we're teaching him what's acceptable and what's not as we go. He's perfectly capable of learning it too. I could understand the behaviour the OP is describing as a short term phase, but not constantly over months. It sounds like this particular toddler is ruling the roost and doesn't get much in the way of either stimulation or discipline.

on a purely practical note, silicone earplugs are, IMO, the most effective solution at a reasonable cost. Others swear by noise cancelling headphones but I'm not sure they'd work for intermittent noises like a toddler.

london yy to earplugs. I got those pink and yellow ones in a big multipack off ebay. They don't block everything, but they let me sleep through my neighbour's yelling, which is pretty impressive.

DrankSangria'n, interesting point about certain Eastern European countries having no set bedtimes for children. Perhaps cultural differences play a part. However, most of the families in the adjacent flats are also from Eastern Europe and their children all seem to have set bedtimes.. my next door neighbours on other side have 3 young children, who make no noise at all after 8pm. It seems to bother you that I referred to the nationality of the toddlers' parents; I did so only to point out the language barrier and its impact on communication.

I've lived in fourteen different places since I was 17 and I can say the 'eastern european' neighbours I have had had no problem getting their children to bed in fact they'd apologise which I thought was nice.

I'd have got them served with a noise abatement order by now, having lived near noisy neighbours for 5 years which ended up with me moving (not just because of that, but it was a major factor). However the right thing to do is probably mediation with a translator present. Any chance of the noise abatement council people helping you sort out some sort of route for this?

If it genuinely is every night, it's suggest they have a problem but sometimes toddlers will play up and not sleep. My son (18 months) has literally only just fallen asleep and he has not napped all day. Figure that one out! So I would not go in all guns blazing. There could be a wide range of reasons why he behaves the way he does. My son once screamed for a hour on the bus. Most uncomfortable ride ever and I tried everything. I was almost in tears in frustration, but it happens. Luckily I got sympathetic bus riders who were very nice. Perhaps mention it to a local hv?

It's inspiring to read the posts that say toddlers are indeed capable of learning what is acceptable and non-acceptable behaviour... thanks for your support
It's good to know some people have experience of successful sleep routines and agree that toddlers do have capacity to learn appropriate behaviours.

DrankSangrialn, perhaps children are indeed 'noisy and inconsiderate' by nature, but isn't it the parents responsibility to teach them differently? To teach them to respect others, to be considerate and that there are times when they need to be quiet. These are all things they are expected to have grasped by the time they start primary school at age 4, so isn't it better to start teaching them as early as possible?

I will try silicone earplugs... I've tried foam and wax ones but found they only reduced noise slightly.

Blackwidow, they do shout at the child occasionally, but most of the time they seem to ignore him.

Hodgepodge... the other neighbours left! 3 families moved out last month so they are surrounded by empty flats.

Rigglinjigglin... On the contrary I'm fascinated to read all of these posts.. I find it very interesting to read what people have to say, even if I don't agree with all of them It's always good to get lots of different perspectives!

Indeed most toddlers are capable of learning desired behaviour and a sleep routine. For some it's easier than for others.

But what you seem to underestimate is that your neighbours are under no obligation to parent the way that you think best.

When you have your own child you will find that there are millions of different ways and everyone thinks theirs is best!

Co-sleep, cry it out, strict routine, no routine, bed at 7pm, bed when parents go. Over time I have observed many variations that work for individual families and cultural differences come into it a lot. Some of my Mediterranean friends eat dinner as a family at 9 or 10pm even with young kids. They tend to have long naps and get up later. My Japanese friends co-sleep well into primary school age. These families tend to find our insistence on a 'child-free evening' an alien concept.

You can complain to the landlord about the noise but you can't tell them how to parent and that is why the Surestart leaflets are overstepping because it comes across patronising especially from someone with no kids. Maybe they are happy with things as they are?

I was FABULOUS parent until I actually became one. You might want to think about that op.

My child was going to have a routine. My child would go to bed by seven and sleep through. My child would be taken out every day to do stimulating activities. My child wouldn't tantrum because I would distract them. My child would have impeccable behaviour in restaurants because she had been eating out since birth. My child wouldn't scream because frankly, I wouldn't allow it....

My child had other ideas. Because that's the thing with children. They are individuals with their own minds. You can try everything and still not succeed. And my child is normal, she's a fabulous mix of spirit, good manners, stroppy attitude, happiness, good behaviour and bad. She screams and is quiet, she sings at the top of her voice, or whispers. She runs on tippy toes like a fairy, she stomps like a giant. She runs EVERYWHERE, unless speed is required, then she turns into a snail. She is good, naughty, loud, quiet, obedient and disobedient depending on her mood, the trousers she is wearing, the colour of her crayon, the cereal she has for breakfast.... She is three.

As I said, I was a FABULOUS parent until I became one. Now I do my best to be a good enough parent. So sometimes her behaviour is frankly crap, sometimes she screams and stamps about, some nights her mantra is 'sleep is for the weak', sometimes I end up crying from sheer exasperation with her behaviour.

Yet I know she is a happy, confident, clever child who knows she is loved, who is just being three and that is good enough for me.

There is nothing on the planet that prepares you for having a child of your own. I think you are in for one hell of a shock. There is a reason babies are born tiny and cute... Because if they were born as toddlers, with toddler behaviour from the start we'd probably want to give them back. The toddler years are FAR more difficult and exhausting than the baby stage. Think about that when you are feeling smug and dishing out advice based on zero actual experience....