Noisy toddler next door

[Sukie272]

I live in a small flat and my next-door neighbours have a toddler who is about 2. This child seems to stay up all night as well as most of the day- he screams, cries, yells, bangs toys on the walls and runs around their flat constantly, until around 3am.
The walls are very thin, so he wakes me up repeatedly. After 6 months of being woken 4-5 times a night (the sound of him running on hardwood floors sounds like someone is hamnering nails into the floor) I complained to landlord. He agreed this level of noise at night is unacceptable and spoke to the family. For a few weeks the noise calmed down and they seemed to make an effort to keep him away from the partition wall at night, but now the noise is unbearable again.
I've tried politely talking to the parents (who are Eastern European and don't speak much English), I've also put leaflets under their door about SureStart and other sources of help. At times I bang on the wall in desperation. I just want some peace and quiet!
Is it normal for a 2-year-old to cry for several hours every day, and to run around screaming for hours at a time, several times a night? I'm worried he may be being abused/neglected... should I contact Social Services? The parents rarely take him out of the flat, so maybe he is just bored?
I'm in first trimester of pregnancy and currently off work sick, so I can't escape the noise even in the daytime. I feel so angry that these people let their child cause such a disturbance! Earplugs make little difference, and I can hear him in every room in my flat, even though my bedroom is not next to the partition wall.
What can I do about this? Does anyone have a similar experience?

Gosh, OP, you must be exhausted by now, surely? I'm sure no-one would reasonably disagree that the OP is in a totally rubbish predicament - it sounds horrendous. Thinking back, when we lived in London in a flat, we had a, thankfully very short, period of time when the toddler in the neighbouring flat was noisy over night. To our, at that time, childless minds, it appeared that the parents were doing nothing. They popped a note through our door apologising if she was disturbing us - which she was - and explained that it was after firework night that she'd become scared and was, consequently, having nightmares. I think this might be partly why the OP is so wound up - she has zero control over the situation. OP, you sound like someone who likes to be prepared and who tends to research a lot, you also sound very logical, and, unfortunately, it sounds like your neighbours are really in a very different mindset to you. If you're feeling poorly anyway, in your shoes, I'd be putting all my efforts into trying to move. And I stand by my earlier much earlier post that perhaps the way your phrasing your posts is a little irritating. But I understand that sleep deprivation can make one quite snappy. Who knows what kind of sleeper your baby-to-be will be - mine were both good, but that's still relative to life pre-DC!!

*you're

I think everyone is being very harsh on the OP! It sounds awful and I sympathise. Our next door neighbours have a teenage daughter whose voice and squeal is so high pitched that I swear I've seen dogs cover their ears. I don't think you are being judgmental at all! Just very tired and frustrated - your sleep is really important now you're pregnant, and it's not your fault it is being interrupted.

I realise (well, OK, I don't because I've not had my first child) that is nigh on impossible to stop a toddler in full flow. Can't say I'm looking forward to that stage! But as some of you have pointed out, there are ways to keep the din down. And OP made a good point about the toddler not going outside much. An apartment must be a frustrating space for a young child, I'd be doing my best to get them outside as much as possible - and hopefully tire them out.

Good luck...

Op, did you not think at the time of posting this that you might get a bit of stick?

Thanks guys

AvonCalling, you're right, its possible his parents have tried everything to resolve the problems and are still trying. I would love to help them find a solution, but in this case I guess I just have to let them find it themselves.

Coola, yes in the past I have tried knocking on their door (daytime as well as night) but they never answer. I notice they never answer the door to anyone (including a police-detective who kept coming to the building looking for a missing person and knocking on all the doors!) The few times I've spoken to the parents was chance-meetings in the corridor, but the language-barrier made it difficult to communicate.

I have never labelled anyone an 'inadequate parent'... not sure where that came from. Earlier in the thread I suggested a poster's nasty comment stemmed from feelings of 'jealousy or inadequacy in the face of another's success', since she ridiculed another mum for sharing what had worked for her toddler.

I agree that the majority of parents keep doing the best they can, and that all children are different.
However there will always be a small percentage of parents who are not meeting their child's needs, either intentionally or unintentionally. Sometimes this is through abuse or neglect. In other cases it's because they lack the resources to manage without professional support (eg a vulnerable adult suffering from substance addition problems or a severe mental health disorder may need specialist help to meet child's needs). Tragically some don't get help in time, and it's only after a child fatality that neighbours come forward and reveal they'd had concerns all along, but had shied away from doing anything in case they were wrong.

Btw, I'm not suggesting my neighbours are not meeting their child's needs, nor do I suspect them of neglect/abuse. On the contrary this thread has reassured me their toddler's behaviour is likely normal for his age.
But you can imagine why I was concerned... when you hear a child screaming in distress day and night for 6 months, it's natural to wonder if he's ok. That's not being a busybody or a know-it-all, it's being human.

Bigfam, I wasn't complaining about getting stick If someone posts an interesting, thought-provoking point of view... that's great... I have nothing against people who are controversial, disagree with me, challenge my ideas or spark new debates.

What I disagree with is people deliberately flame-baiting or posting malicious, irrelevant comments that detract from the debate. Such behaviour is pointless and wastes everyone's time. It's also against MN rules (hence a lot of posts being deleted).

This is a place where people should feel safe to share ideas, experiences and solutions... without fear of mockery, ridicule or personal attacks.

If this is not a dirt digging journalist I will gnaw my sombrero for dinner!

What does bunfighty mean?

People throwing imaginary buns at each-other. Although I think a few have broken the rules and hurled a few rocks instead.

What a nightmare!! Hitting walls, running screaming all night?! Something's wrong. I'm a mum of 2 and a primary school teacher. Neglect is more common than ppl realise. Some 4-yr-olds in my class don't know discipline in any form until they start school. They can't sit still,follow simple rules or play nicely. They tantrum when don't get their own way, bite, kick. some even spit and swear at teachers. Often these kids come to school unfed, unwashed, in dirty clothes, a choccy bar in place of packed lunch. The parents are usually bolshy, in denial and blame all their DCs problems on the school. There's a lot of shoddy parenting out there!!

Thank you Dancing, sorry for the diversion but it was driving me crazy not knowing lol!

Gold, I completely agree, the number of parents I've come across who are so precious about their children, or just unmotivated and wont discipline them is ridiculous. Discipline isn't just about making a child's behaviour better for other people, it makes them feel safe and cared for.

I'm happy to admit that my little boy, who I adore more than life itself, can be as naughty as any other toddler. I have firm consequences and routines in place to make sure it is only ever occasions rather than established behaviour.

I heartily feel sorry for teachers these day, many parents refuse to take responsibility for making sure their children behave remotely acceptably and make excuses for what happens in school.

goldletters Finally, some common sense!

What a thoroughly depressing thread.

So quick to cast aspersions on other peoples parenting styles.

gold thankfully not all teachers think like you. In my ten years of teaching I've never come across a teacher as judgmental as you. I really hope you don't let your true feeling biase the way you interact with your students. These unruly, unclean, unfed children are the exactly the children you want there.

Awful thread.

Stale, nobody is blaming the children. Parents should teach good behaviour and basic social skills before their kids start school!! Not leave this up to teachers. Children who can't following basic rules disrupt the whole class. They upset other kids by kicking, punching, biting and spitting on them. They run around during lessons and scream abuse when told to sit down. Yet when we discipline them we often get irate parents storming into school demanding to know why their precious child has been punished!! The parents are often rude, belligerent, abusive to staff and have an inflated sense of entitlement. They don't care that other children suffer as well as their own kids. They don't care that our time and attention is taken up with issues most parents resolve in the toddler years. Our support workers spend all their time trying to keep the peace instead of supporting learning. Some of these neglected kids are barely able to function in a classroom environment, because their parents have not bothered to raise them well. This is a very common problem in schools all over Britain. It is often discussed in staff-meetings and in training. I agree, it is a depressing problem. But until parents step up to the mark and take responsibility, nothing will change.

Gold I think you're being a bit judgemental, I can personally say my 6 year old daughter has always been excellent at school, the teacher that taught her last year now has the pleasure (ha!) of teaching her 5 year old brother and we've had many, many discussions about his behaviour, of all the things you've listed above he has done all of these things (but he is not unclean! And I think it's unfair of you to say this about any child) his teacher openly tells me she literally can't believe my daughter and son are siblings because of the difference in their behaviour. I know for a fact he is extremely badly behaved and that this has nothing to do with the way myself and my partner have brought him up, he's always been treated the same as his sister and always faces consequences for bad behaviour, he is just generally very naughty, you'd describe him as 'not raised well'
I'd like to think not all teachers or so judgemental :s

gold I think you may have chose the wrong career. I wonder if your HT knows this is how you feel.

I can honestly say we don't talk about our students/or their families in the manner and it's not normal practice. We are adults, we don't bitch. We endeavour to treat all our students and guardians with respect. Maybe you should implement it in your school.

I'm from and work in a under priviged borough in the N/W and we don't have this problem at our school.

Don't blame poor teaching practices on poor parenting. I'd be really interested to know the OFSTED report on your school - as it sounds hellish.

Maybe you would be more suited to an office job.

I hope your contempt for your students and parents doesn't radiate from you at school as it does through your posts.

Duck gold quickly, the bun brigade are on to you! Those buns are flying in your direction, fast and furious

Yet again the person speaking sense is getting a bashing. You can't say the bleeding obvious any more without being cut down.

You can't blame poor teaching practice if the child first arrives at school like that! Parents have a duty to teach at least the basics of good manners and respect and consideration for others, long before they start school. It should be in the fabric of their upbringing from day one.

I know that's not the case in many households, but that doesn't mean it shouldn't be.

Bigfam, kids respond to different methods. My DD (now 9) was a lot easier than my DS (7). DS needed a very firm hand, more boundaries. He was a spirited rebellious toddler and the methods we used with DD just didn't work. We got through it. It took 10x more effort though!!
Have you had regular meetings with your son's teacher?Most teachers are happy to meet with parents after school if you're struggling. Most are keen to help if you show you're willing to work with them. Sometimes making a plan together (so you're using same strategies at home and school) makes a big difference.

Stale, respect is earned. Teachers project a professional non-judgemental front. It doesn't mean we FEEL respect for parents who neglect their kids (or those who treat us like a free babysitting service.) Yes, I do have contempt for parents who neglect their kids!! Why have kids if you're not prepared to make an effort. If parents realised just how much most teachers secretly judge them, they might brush up on their attitude to parenting. For the kids' sake, we shouldn't pretend all parents are doing a great job if they're not.

Which year-group do you teach?

I've been an infant teacher for 14 years (3 schools in England plus 2 schools in Japan.) Japanese parents have a very different attitude to parenting!! Good manners are essential in their culture. Kids learn this very young. In Japan its shameful if your child is rude or disrespectful. Parents put a lot of time and effort into teaching kids to be responsible and to think for themselves. Kids are encouraged to be independent much earlier (eg they start helping with family meal prep from age of 3 or 4, tidy own toys and clothes, are encouraged to be proud of what they can do).
What stood out most about teaching there was how happy, content and well-adjusted Japanese schoolchildren are in comparison to the average school here! We could learn a lot from their culture and parenting styles!!

Every method has been tried tested and failed with him, I should probably mention he has quite bad speech delay- I know this impacts on his behaviour as he gets frustrated as they find it hard to communicate with him, he works with a therapist regularly at school. But this shouldn't really make any difference in terms of him doing things he's asked to do at school (he won't sit down at story time, and refuses to do p.e) his school are trying but I know they are close to their wits end. I just don't think it's fair how some people judge the parents of children that misbehave, unless u know that family personally I don't think u (not u personally) have the right.

Bigfam, sounds tough, hope things get better soon. Since you obviously care about your son (and want to improve his behaviour) no teacher would judge you. Most would be very understanding. The school has a responsibility to support your son and meet his needs especially as his behaviour is affected by speech delay. Maybe they need to do more to help him. Do they set up regular meetings to review progress?

I tend to get through it by telling myself things will improve in the next few months but there's only so many time u can say that. We don't have regular reviews, but I think his school does support him quite well, had he attended the school where we used to live I'm sure the situation would have been worse, I love the school my children attend (it's actually the one I attended, and thats going back more than 20 years and his current teacher used to teach me) I know it must be hard all round, I find him hard to understand at the best of times. In your experience gold, how long does it take for a child to overcome speech delay? It's been described as quite severe by his therapists.

It varies a lot. I've had kids in my class who suddenly made rapid progress, like you said it can all change in a few months.I've seen other kids struggle all the way through primary school.

Do you have an assisted-tech team at school? There are AAC apps and communication devices that help. I'm guessing you already use picture boards, word-books etc. Its very frustrating for kids when ppl can't understand them. Probs with social skills, concentration, following rules etc are normal, tend to improve when speech improves,so don't beat yourself up over his behaviour. Best of luck!!

OP did you contact anyone about this kid's welfare? Don't let ppl on here tell you it's normal toddler behaviour, it's not!! Tantrums and periods of being unsettled at night are normal for a 2-year-old. 6 months of screaming and running all night every night is not!! He might be in pain or hungry. someone might be knocking him about. You haven't seen him enough times to know if he has bruises or marks (or they might be hidden under clothes). He's caged up indoors all day, looks unkempt, shows high levels of distress and excessive behaviour. His parents don't answer the door or respond to your attempts to contact them. These are all warning signs. The situation needs investigating by professionals!!
Contact your council's 'safeguarding children' service and report it- you owe it to the kid! Or contact the local Multi agency safeguarding hub (MASH). They'll visit the family and carry out proper assessments if needed. Even if he's not at risk, or behaviour is due to special needs, it sounds like the family need help!!