Noisy toddler next door

[Sukie272]

I live in a small flat and my next-door neighbours have a toddler who is about 2. This child seems to stay up all night as well as most of the day- he screams, cries, yells, bangs toys on the walls and runs around their flat constantly, until around 3am.
The walls are very thin, so he wakes me up repeatedly. After 6 months of being woken 4-5 times a night (the sound of him running on hardwood floors sounds like someone is hamnering nails into the floor) I complained to landlord. He agreed this level of noise at night is unacceptable and spoke to the family. For a few weeks the noise calmed down and they seemed to make an effort to keep him away from the partition wall at night, but now the noise is unbearable again.
I've tried politely talking to the parents (who are Eastern European and don't speak much English), I've also put leaflets under their door about SureStart and other sources of help. At times I bang on the wall in desperation. I just want some peace and quiet!
Is it normal for a 2-year-old to cry for several hours every day, and to run around screaming for hours at a time, several times a night? I'm worried he may be being abused/neglected... should I contact Social Services? The parents rarely take him out of the flat, so maybe he is just bored?
I'm in first trimester of pregnancy and currently off work sick, so I can't escape the noise even in the daytime. I feel so angry that these people let their child cause such a disturbance! Earplugs make little difference, and I can hear him in every room in my flat, even though my bedroom is not next to the partition wall.
What can I do about this? Does anyone have a similar experience?

Are these things your friend does to encourage a quiet, nighttime routine with her toddler or what she tries to do in the middle of the night if they wake, won't go back to sleep and start screaming and rioting? I've thankfully never had to deal with my toddler tantruming in the middle of the night but even during the day if she was screeching her head off I doubt she'd be inclined to do massage or finger painting if I'm honest?

Before I had kids I genuinely thought 'there's got to be something you can do to make them quiet' but then I realised with a toddler there is just sometimes nothing that can be done. Literally nothing. Unless you smack or scream and shout and put the fear of God into your kids I suppose...

Soooo......my first ever child is due in 3 months, and i am now terrified.
I have/had all these ideas in my head of how i would instill a good bedtime routine and how i would never raise my voice infront of my little darling angel so she learns that shouting doesn't get you anywhere....but i take it that they all get possessed by the devil for a good 18 months regardless?! Lol. Ah how naive i have been, thank you mums for giving me a heads up, i will get the army equipment ready!!!

Can i just skip ages 2 - 3 please? Please

op honestly you won't care either especially if you haven't had more than four hours sleep at a time in two years! Also your so sure you would be considerate to your neighbours and make your toddler be quiet, you can't even show empathy for the ones who are up and living the nightmare that live next door to you now!

Im not a lazy parent. My dd2 has gone to bed at 6:30 every night since she was four months. It was just staying asleep that was the issue. If I left her she would build in to a crescendo of death curdles so it was pretty much 1-2 hours of bed rotating, running around, trying to slide off our bed, commando crawling down the quilt to get down stairs, laughing manically, crying manically, needing juice, not wanting juice, hating the juice cup, hating me, wanting to cuddle me - all being played out every ten mins. So forgive me if a stroppy neighbour wasnt my first priority, which thankfully I havnt got.

Don't kid yourself it's lazy parenting. Parents live by the seat of their pants and try and get through the day. Your posts are incredibly shortsighted and judgemental- and you can't really judge yet can you as you haven't had your dc yet.

I think you should move. Your neighbours would be better off.

I said lazy parenting not op, and again I have a toddler! He has been in a routine since six weeks old. It includes an incredible amount of simulation during the day, at least two hours of active play (including outdoor time) and a 'quiet down' routine before bed at eight. We follow clean eating as a family with the occasional treat so that probably helps too. We've got occasional bumps in the sleep routine and worked through them, never simply thought hah council won't do anything about noisy kids, how selfish!

mrsC well maybe you should publish a book as you seem to have it nailed on!

So I take it you think bad sleepers is due to a bad structured day, poor diet an no stimulation? ha ha ha ha. "Including outdoor play"

mrsc maybe you should go on the 'misery loves company' threads , they would just love to hear your advice

'quiet play' involves cuddles, massage, soothing music, finger-painting, story-tapes, quiet games and toys, warm baths, walking round the garden and basically anything that calms him and does not get him excited or over-stimulated. I guess all these things take a lot more effort from the parent than letting your child run around screaming and banging on the walls!

I'm actually choking laughing here at that

"No, sweetheart, I know you are tired and grumpy and frustrated and you would prefer to express that by screaming and hitting things but I think you'll find that some finger painting at 3am will really help you feel better."

thurlow

I'm leaving this thread now, well done guys. Had the best laugh in ages. I bloody love MN !

It's the thread that keeps on giving I'm staying for the amazing parenting advice

I'm not being funny, but the OP is not moaning about a quick cry during the day...a 30 minute blast...but all day, every day, until 3 am!!!

I have a toddler and that doesn't seem normal to me, at all.

In all honesty, most bad sleepers I've met without sn there usually is a cause, yes.

So much good advice
Leanne - toddlers are marvellous I enjoy mine more than when he was a baby - they can just be a challenge!

I really need to try finger painting in the middle of the night.

Also hugely intrigued in how someone gets a 2 year old to understand people in another flat sleeping ( who he can't see, doesn't know) when on occasions when I am in my ds bed trying to calm him and cuddle ( to often physically stop him getting out of bed again ) to make him go back to sleep (when he's been awake for hours at night) he doesn't understand ' mummy sleeping' when he can see me with pjs on, closed eyes and am in bed next to him demonstrating to the little darling what he needs to do

Tbh yes your neighbour needs to realise the impact on you but at the same time it sounds like she is facing difficulties like many toddler mums do.

Clearly from my rambling you can tell I had v little sleep last night

OP I'm pretty sure that all the posters castigating you for being so unreasonable as to expect to be able to sleep in your own home would soon be complaining if it were them living next door to a nocturnal toddler

Ignore them.

As for the parents next door - things quietened down at one point so they are obviously able to manage it. They may just need reminding again.

Fuck me, I couldn't be arsed with all that craft and glittery shit even in daylight hours (isn't that why they invented the nursery school?) go figure if I was getting the craft box down at stupid o'clock.

Leanne- I have a feeling your expectations won't be quite as high as the OPs so I'm sure you'll be fine.

cuddles, massage, soothing music, finger-painting, story-tapes, quiet games and toys, warm baths, walking round the garden

Can you imagine even thinking of any of that when you have been surviving on 2 hours sleep a night for months? When I was at that stage I would have paid someone to shoot me.

MrsCs' advice is actually very good and may help other parents. Numerous child-development experts support these recommendations of daytime stimulation, active outdoor play, bedtime routine, healthy diet, family mealtimes, working through problems with sleep routines as they arise... the advice has a strong evidence-base.
The sarcastic comments (from joyful, prettywhiteguitar and thurlow) imply they feel jealous and/or inadequate, since they have not yet achieved the same success. Perhaps they would benefit from trying out these ideas rather than dismissing them!

I think many of us have tried those things OP, they didn't work for 2 of my 3 children and god knows I persevered.

The sarcastic comments are trench humour.

Thanks, but DD has slept through the night from 3 months.

Parenting is so much easier before you actually have kids.

Leanne, try not to worry, it seems lots of people do achieve good bedtime routines! I think the main thing is to stay positive and persevere!
What I find fascinating is the difference in people's attitudes... those who believe it's important to consider neighbours seem to have more success with sleep routines than those who don't care if they keep waking everyone up!

I had one non- sleeper and one that was very routine based so I'm not sure why you are assuming that !

I think if ds had been fingerprinting at 4am there would have been no chance to establish a routine, a frankly stupid idea ! But carry on....you know best dear

It's not about not considering your neighbours its about not really being able to stop a child crying out, particularly if you are doing a sleep routine. Have you not watch programmes like super nanny ?

I have no doubt that you are pissed off at your neighbours and it is a very hard situation for you, especially not feeling great whilst pregnant, I should know I am 35 weeks and live in a boys boarding house in a city centre ! Very noisy !

However you will not get any sympathy coming onto a parenting forum and telling people , some with numerous children how to parent, especially seeing as you have absolutely no idea what it is like.

Oh my lord, some people, honestly!
This thread scared the living life out of me for so many reasons.
Op, I have no words of wisdom for you I'm afraid.
Unfortunately, I believe moving out might be the best solution for you. Hopefully, as a pp said, it won't be next to most of the posters on this thread

In response to the comments about having more empathy... I do have empathy for what the parents must be going through, and for a long time I tolerated the noise without complaint. But (like any normal person) I also care about my own health and that of my unborn baby, my career and quality of life. Prolonged sleep deprivation (particularly when you are powerless to change it) has a very negative impact on health, mood, stress-levels and ability to perform well at work. Obviously sleep-deprivation goes hand-in-hand with having a baby and is part of parenthood... but when it's someone else's child it's infuriating!

The parents clearly do have some control as they managed to quieten him down at night for a few weeks (after I first complained to landlord). It didn't last long, but for a while they reduced his running and banging, allowing me to sleep for more than 2 hours at a time.

I feel very sorry for the unsuspecting neighbours who move in after me- I have more empathy for them than for the toddlers' parents. I only hope whoever moves in does not have to get up early for work, have health problems, a stressful lifestyle, is elderly, anxious or has children of their own who are in a sleep routine, as I don't imagine they will get much sleep!

Hahaha - finger painting at 3am??? Now that is piss your pants funny

By the OPs deductions I fall into the inadequate pool for parenting - I can live with that. I don't have unrealistic neighbours who bang on about quiet community residential living - our NDNs have 2 non sleepers too. We all scream day and night - its a glorious cocophony of noise. I am considerate of the fact she had crippling PND and getting through each day was an achievement.

op your coming across as very silly. Obviously parents with bad sleepers try everything under sun to work. I don't think your ready for this baby as your very short sighted.

Dd1 20, was a dream baby slept like a log. Dd2 is completely different. Crazy child at night and then bounces up at 6:30 - refreshed!

For someone to come on a parent forum that hasn't even got a child and start quoting 'experts' and basically saying that if your child doesn't sleep your not being a good parent. Is a slap in the face for all those parents that have just about resigned to witch craft to get the dc some sleep so they can sleep too. Obviously all those things have been tried. A million books read too. Grow up fast love.

mrsC you are probally the woman in the play group that all the other mums avoid because they just want non judgmental ear.

You can argue with stupid .

Are you mrsC - sukie???