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Pregnancy

Talk about every stage of pregnancy, from early symptoms to preparing for birth.

Original poster

DH would abort but I wouldn't........help!

219 replies

Bloo · 25/04/2006 20:04

My DH really took me by surprise - he was asking at what stage we take all the tests for DS etc etc. I said that we should only have them if we would potentially act on the results as they come with some risk. to cut a long story short, DH said he would want to abort if the baby had DS. I am mortified. Has anyone else been in this situation>

OP posts:
5ms · 25/04/2006 20:48

oldest child was born with severe disabilities. didn't know till he was born. he fantastic kid, wouldn't change him for the world. blood test during my 4th pregnancy gave a high risk for downs, had amnio cause needed to know if all was fine. not sure i could have continued with pregnancy if pos result. not scared of problem just sure he would have a much better life without his problems. also had amnio with 5th and last pregnancy. decision got to be what is right for your family and most of all you. nothing else matters. no right or wrong. good luck.

Lottielou · 25/04/2006 20:53

Sorry you have come accross this difference in opinion. I can't say i have personally been in that position, but can totally understand where you're comming from. Sometimes it's easy for a male to say that as they aren't the ones going through the physical side of the pregnancy and they dont bond with the baby until he/she arrives into the outside world.
I sometimes wish males could step into our shoes, if only for a minute to see how we are feeling.
Allthough everyone is completely different,we had the tests, but not quite sure why as we decided that if the results came back that our baby had DS then we wouldn't abort, we would deal with it.
I'm really sorry i can't comment on it too much or advise what to do as i dont know what you must be going through, you have my thoughts.
I really hope you can figure this out

Big hugs xx

5ms · 25/04/2006 21:08

not very good at this, didn't mean it to sound like i think it's right to abort just cause of disabilities, i don't. what i meant to say is there no right or wrong. nobody can say what should be. things happen for a reason. tests on offer don't give a true picture anyway, many problems wouldn't show on tests. x

Lottielou · 25/04/2006 21:10

5ms, I dont think it came out how you think it did! I know what you mean, there is no right or wrong, everyone is comletely different and whats right for one isn't going to be necersarily ( sp, lol) right for the other!

5ms · 25/04/2006 21:19

thanks...

what does lol mean?

tortoise · 25/04/2006 21:21

lol is laugh out loud.

Original poster
Bloo · 25/04/2006 21:36

Thanks so much - I hope I didn't sound as if I think there is a right or wrong for the decisions that other couples make or have made - I should have made that clear in my post. I understand what DH is feeling but I just don't feel the same so I have no idea how we can resolve this. I know a few people with DS and to me they are as ordinary as any of us are but if anything are more full of sunshine! I do understand that to be any different from the 'norm' or to have increased dependence for the duration of your life is very difficult for you and your carer(s). It's just this difference in opinion between us that is going to be difficult as there isn't really any space for compromise is there??

OP posts:
geekgrrl · 25/04/2006 21:49

Bloo, this is really tricky and it's a bit of a 'rock and hard place' situation. I don't think there is a solution - well, we didn't find one and mulled over this for a few years, baby no.3 was put on hold due to this until I caved in. Our situation is different though - our dd2 (child no.2) was born with DS and dh felt that having another child with a disability would put too much pressure on our eldest (dd1).
I couldn't imagine aborting a baby for being like cute and gorgeous dd2. Eventually I decided that the risk was very small and agreed to have a CVS with a subsequent pregnancy (I did and everything was fine).
I think ultimately it is your decision - of course it is also your dh's life that would be changed by the arrival of a baby with a disability, but you are the one who would have to live with the termination - and if this is not something you would want I'd say it could become this huge, awful thing for you and haunt you for the rest of your life, whereas having a child with DS, whilst it certainly has its challenging and sometimes upsetting moments, is overall a pretty normal experience of bringing up a child (and what is normal, anyway?!).

Original poster
Bloo · 25/04/2006 21:58

Thanks Geekgrrl. I think it's hard because DH hasn't actually met anyone with DS and I'm not sure how to engineer it without it being engineered if you know what I mean. On another note, are the tests quite reliable? Does anyone know and how big a risk of miscarriage is it with amnios.....

OP posts:
geekgrrl · 25/04/2006 22:06

the miscarriage risks really vary depending on who does the procedure, so you would need to ring the test provider and ask for their own figures. The CVS and amnio are almost 100% reliable for testing for DS.
I don't think you should worry about it all so much though (unless you're high risk for some reason?). The chance of your baby having DS is most likely much lower (1 in 900 births across the general population) than him/her having a congenital heart defect for instance (1 in 100) - yet people rarely worry about that.
Maybe cross that bridge of worrying and getting your dh to meet folks with DS should something crop up at your scan? And otherwise try to drop the subject? Men can be really useless at understanding what it's like to have a real, kicking baby in there.

Original poster
Bloo · 25/04/2006 22:09

I presumed that everyone was offered tests - I know so little!! I'm 35, so presume that I would be considered higher risk?

OP posts:
5ms · 25/04/2006 22:11

test offered check the chromosomes. and can only check for known problems. if a condition is undiagnosed as in our case then there are no prenatal tests. amnio does carry a risk of misscarriage though this is low. less of a risk if performed by a competant dr. results may not be accurate if you carrying a girl as they can't be 100% sure it's the babies sample and not yours. though this is also a small risk. hope this helps.x

Jimjamskeepingoffvaxthreads · 25/04/2006 22:12

Would your dh settle for screening- triple or nuchal (although of course than can open a can of worms). My personal view is that is more your decision than his, after all you would have t go through the termination, and realistically if your baby does have a disability it will affect your life more than his- on a day to day basis (I have a child with a severe disability and that is true for every couple I know) and therefore if you can't reach agreement you get the final say.

geekgrrl · 25/04/2006 22:12

Have a look at \link{http://www.ds-health.com/prenatal.htm\this}, it also links to a table according to which your chance of giving birth to a baby with DS is 1:350, which is considered low-risk.

geekgrrl · 25/04/2006 22:14

v. true jimjams - I don't know a single couple with a SN child where the woman isn't the day-to-day carer. Good point.

Original poster
Bloo · 25/04/2006 22:19

ok, so what's the triple - nuchal stuff - what can of worms does that throw up? oh dear oh dear! Thanks for the link too - I shall hop on to it now for a peek.

OP posts:
tobysmumkent · 25/04/2006 22:25

I think they say the risk of m/carriage with amnio is between 0.5% and 1%.

My nuchal scan came back v high risk of downs and I went with an amnio. My DH was adamant that we'd abort if it was DS, I was less certain (not sure about putting our other son first and him losing out time-wise, health problems with ds, but I wanted to stay pregnant, was confused etc...).

Amnio result was a definite "no" for ds. I still don't know what our final decision would have been if it had needed making...

However, I now have a DS2 who has autism! (and DH is as proud and in love with him as I am!). But I think he found it harder to get used to the idea, and speaking to other couples in the same position, it seems to be the husband who finds it harder and takes longer to come to terms with.

I think I'm trying to say that there's all sorts of special needs that can't be anticipated, but having an SN child does become "normal" because it's "normal" for that child (does that make sense?). My DH seemed very definite in what he said at the time, but the reality has changed his opinion - over time! Do you think this might apply to your DH? (obviously reality could hit a bit earlier in your situation).

Would it be worth "engineering" a meeting with parents of the children with downs that you know? Would DH do it in the guise of supporting you as you try to find out more?

Sorry you're in this tricky situation at the moment, hope it all works out ok, for all of you!!

Jimjamskeepingoffvaxthreads · 25/04/2006 23:29

The triple test is a blood test (also for spina bifida), its not that reliable-carried out at 16 weeksish, the nuchal involves a scan at around 12 weeks. Both give you a more accurate risk factor, it takes into account your age, but then calculates the risk based on the test results as well. It does not give a definite yes or no and whilst it is not common, it is not unusual to get a false positive. Ie you are told you are high risk and are not. The nuchal in particular seems to pick up other conditions and may lead to CVS/amnio only for it to come back that those other conditions aren't really major (but you've just increased your risk of m/c). For example a friend had a dodgy nuchal, had amnio- came back clear for DS and major conditons but her pregnancy had a problem with some chromosomes. But they couldn;t tell if the problems were with the baby or the placenta - basically dodgy chromosomes in placenta would mean nothing, in baby could mean nothing could mean sterility. So it kind of ended up opening more quesitons than it answered, and led to more invasive testing. Just one example, but the sort of thing that can snowball.

sarahlou1uk · 26/04/2006 18:54

I am currently 24 weeks pregnant with second child and my triple test results came back high risk for ds. After the total shock, I decided to have an amnio as I felt that I couldn't have lasted the rest of the pregnancy not knowing. DH and family very supportive but ultimately, it was my body and my decision to have an amnio. I hadn't given much thought to how I would react if the result came back positive for DS - for me, luckily the results were OK and found out that it's a girl. If I had found out I was positive for DS, I had discussed this with my DH and we had both decided that I would have to terminate the pregnancy as we already have a healthy 3 year old and I couldn't face the extra responsibilities and difficulties that a DS child would bring with it. This is not to say that this is the right choice for everyone - but it was for my family.

Trifle · 26/04/2006 19:32

I think one question you need to ask is whether it is morally right to knowingly bring a disabled child into the world. DS babies are cute, as toddlers more so but when they hit teens then I think the differences really escalate. Depending on their severity a normal school may not be an option and their prospects in adulthood are extremely limited. It is difficult to look beyond the early baby stages when they are naturally dependent upon you but as time and you evolve, their dependency increases not decreases. Your age is also an important factor on whether you and your partner will still be fit and able to care for them when you are pensioners.

emkana · 26/04/2006 19:34

ooh-err trifle you're really sticking your neck out there aren't you?

You could also say that you could ask yourself whether it is morally right to make a decision about whether a life is worth living or not.

cod · 26/04/2006 19:34

emkana
what RE yu doing ont his thread

emkana · 26/04/2006 19:37

Well kind of difficult to stay away isn't it?

Esmummy · 26/04/2006 19:52

No advice to be honest. With DD we decided against having the tests so this time i told midwife i wouldn't be having them but DP announced a few days ago he thinks we should because now we've got DD he doesn't know how we would cope if we had a baby with disabilities.
I don't know what to think to be honest, i've tried not to think about it too much.

shellish · 26/04/2006 20:00

My test results also came out very high for DS. My DH was incredibly supportive but was leaning towards abortion but acknowledged that I was bonding and would support my decision as it was ultimately my body etc. AFter several weeks of horrendous worry and discussion we decided to go through with an amnio - although the night before I broke down and decided I coulnd't have a termination even if DS was diagnosed but went ahead as we needed to know one way or another so as to be prepared if necessary. Apart from the anguish of not knowing and imagining all kinds of (probably irrational) fears, I think for us part of the decision to go ahead with the amnio was that the risk of miscarriage from the procedure was smaller than the risk of having a baby with DS. The amnio itself was not as bad as I'd imagined it would be and fortunately the results came back all clear and we found out we are having a little girl but the trauma of those weeks of worry (over christmas!) stayed with us for some time.

Sorry I'm waffling on but this is such a personal and difficult decison for anyone to make but the more info you have as to available tests, the associated risks and options may help you to ultimately decide which way to go - good luck hun we are all thinking of you.