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Original poster

DH would abort but I wouldn't........help!

219 replies

Bloo · 25/04/2006 20:04

My DH really took me by surprise - he was asking at what stage we take all the tests for DS etc etc. I said that we should only have them if we would potentially act on the results as they come with some risk. to cut a long story short, DH said he would want to abort if the baby had DS. I am mortified. Has anyone else been in this situation>

OP posts:
FioFio · 27/04/2006 15:41

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FioFio · 27/04/2006 15:41

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desperateSCOUSEwife · 27/04/2006 15:49

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desperateSCOUSEwife · 27/04/2006 15:50

also having a child with sn
also makes you think how bloody lucky you are

moondog · 27/04/2006 15:54

Trifle,I see it as the ultimate sign of a civilised society that we are able to provide resources to care for people with what could be loosely termed as 'specialneeds'be they extreme old age,mental illness,learning and/or physical disability.

I think our example of the couple who couldn't go out together for years is a bit of an exaggrtion.Support (not enough admittedly) is available for people. There is no need for anyone to cope with someone alone 100% of the time.

I am in Turkey,and have just spent the afternoon with a Turkish friend who has a 7 year old son with Cerebral palsy.He has profound multiple and learning disabilities. His mother is trapped in the flat with him as they are still waiting for a wheelchair.

He is only now going to go to school (part time)not been able to contemplate separating from him until now. She told me (without an ounce of pity) that the longest she has ever been away from him is 4 hours.
Their life is unimaginably stressful and difficult (by anyone's standards).However the love they have for him and the joy he brings to their lives is so huge that it fills any room they occupy.

A few years ago,life with a diabled child was as tough as this in Britain. Happily it is no longer so.There is still a long way to go,but we are getting there.

maggiems · 27/04/2006 16:04

jimjams, abortion is still illegal in Northern ireland but its possible to have it done. When I was pregnant with triplets the obst (highly regarded one) offered to reduce the number to two, ie give the ones more likely to survive, ie higher up in the womb a better chance of survival/reduced chance of problems. I was surprised but he said its done all the time and that lots come from the south up to the north to have terminations . i think he actually assumed thats what I was there for anyway which was not the case. He told me all this before he scanned me but as it turned out I had lost one anyway . went on to have twins but wouldnt have been able to terminate anyway

Anoah · 27/04/2006 16:17

Trifle,

I worked with a gentleman who has DS. He worked with me at a restaurant I was waitressing in years ago. He is a great guy, was good at his job, he was friendly and we all enjoyed his company. My stepmom's younger brother has DS, he works hard at his job and has lots of friends and an active social life.

I don't see why these guys have any less of a right to be here than you or I.

Are we going to start aborting everyone who doesn't have the IQ to be a brain surgeon or a rocket scientist too?

If we say it is morally right to abort people with disabilities, we leave the door open for some nasty stuff in the future.

Of course at the end of the day it is the mother's choice and I wouldn't judge. I just think we should be careful about informing others of what is "morally right".

geekgrrl · 27/04/2006 16:25

trfile - how about those working people who never pay back in taxes what they receive in benefits - shall we put them up against the wall? They're very uneconomical after all...
Or maybe those people who are higher-rate tax payers should be allowed to have a disabled child, but compulsory testing and terminations should be done on less productive citizens? What do you think?

jellied · 27/04/2006 16:28

years ago society would lock away children and adults that didn't fit in the norm. thank god that this is now totally unacceptable. children that grow up in the delightful company of their siblings with special needs inevitably turn out to be much more understanding and unprejudiced against their fellow men. prejudices are born from fear and the unknown. by holding on to these feelings you are locking yourself away from some of the best experiences in life. the love from someone truely special
go on trifle,....give it a try......you may surprise yourself

Oblomov · 27/04/2006 16:51

I am so shocked.
Quite horrified.
How could trifle write that ?

What a shame to see such a difficult question - turned into this .

Every man and every women has inumerable factors that make them decide what to do - and as geekggrl said, right at the beginning - it is "'rock and hard place' situation", but lets hope Bloo and dh come to the right decision, for them.

chipmonkey · 27/04/2006 17:15

Skerriesmum you can have amnio done in Holles st but don't know if they actually offer it. You can ask for it though

tobysmumkent · 27/04/2006 17:16

Trifle - I think you're giving very poor examples to back up your earlier statement. Yes, families with SN children/adults do struggle (I rarely go out with DH, my work has been reduced), but there are also massive positives.
My DS1 has always been a bit of a mother hen type, keen to help with the children I childmind, etc. Since DS2's difficulities have become apparant we have been totally open with him, stressed that we will always try to make sure he doesn't miss out on things but that we have to be adaptable (one parent, not two, at events, for example).
He helped me teach DS2 PECS (picture communication). He has also learnt Makaton signing with me, and is thrilled to use this. He loves "teaching" DS2 to do things, usually play-related, and is very proud of his little brother! His teachers feedback to me that he speaks about DS2 often and always in a positive/proud way. He accepts others with various SN's completely.

I'm not saying he'll never experience resentment, but hopefully we'll help him handle that should it arise.

The image you give of fractured, resentful and unsupported families is not as common as your post implies.

Caligula · 27/04/2006 17:16

I think people are over-reacting a bit to what Trifle has said. She hasn't actually said that everyone ought to abort an SN child and she has made some valid points about the impact on the life of the rest of the family.

However, I think you are emphasising the down sides Trifle. I have a cousin who has DS, she is now in her early 30's. Her brothers got into many, many fights on her behalf when they were kids, they were very cruelly taunted (as kids do) and as they grew up, they knew they would have to find wives who would be prepared to accept a fully grown DS woman into their homes at some stage. (Because at some stage my aunt and uncle will die, and she will have to be cared for.)

The result has been that my cousins are probably much nicer men than they would have been without her in their lives. And they have probably found much nicer women, than they otherwise would have had.

I know that sounds a bit dodgy, because it carries those awful overtones of "DS people make you a better person" and I think that's simplistic and patronising and rather gruesome (and probably in many cases wrong) but honestly, all the downsides of having a DS person in their family have absolutely been outweighed by the ups. I know they both believe that.

FioFio · 27/04/2006 17:34

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desperateSCOUSEwife · 27/04/2006 17:34

trifle are you a regular but name changer for this post
please have the decency to post under your real name
or dont you want people to know who you are and what your views are

hotmama · 27/04/2006 17:50

Bloo - it must be very difficult if you have conflicting views to your dh. There is a risk of miscarriage with both amnios and CVS - 1% for an amnio and 2% for a CVS. If you feel that you wouldn't abort if chromosomal abnormalities were found then if I was in your position then I wouldn't have one done.

I'm currently 39 and had dd1 at 37 and dd2 at 38 - I had a CVS with both pregnancies at my request - didn't bother with a nuchal scan as I wanted to know one way or the other. Both myself and dp felt that if there was a chromosomal abnormality we would abort - our personal choice.

You need to bear in mind that unless there are chromosomal abnormalities in your family they only test for ds.

Not even going to comment on Trifles post as I can't believe it is possible that someone can be so offensive and insensitive to other mners.

tamum · 27/04/2006 18:07

God Trifle, you really do attribute some completely weird motives to people. I echo moondog's post completely, it's the sign of a civilised society that provision is made for anyone who needs it (well, in theory). I certainly wouldn't begrudge a penny of the tax I pay.

Hotmama, that's not quite true- any overt chromosomal abnormality will be detected in an amnio, it's just subtle ones that need specifially looking for and that won't be included in a standard test.

skerriesmum · 27/04/2006 18:19

Interesting chipmonkey; I wonder if they offer it to mums over 35? Irish women like everywhere else are having children later and later so it only makes sense. I was 32 and believe me there was nothing about testing in any of the Holles St brochures and none of the staff ever mentioned it.

chipmonkey · 27/04/2006 18:23

I think on a documentary I saw there was a woman who knew she was having a DS baby from the amnio and she was deffo over 35. (0ne of those documentaries about sick babies that always have me in floods but I watch them anyway!)

chipmonkey · 27/04/2006 18:25

Having said that, I wasn't offered one on ds3 and I was 35. But perhaps that's down to my youthful good looks! Didn't occur to them that I was a day over 20!

skerriesmum · 27/04/2006 18:26

I know what you mean! There was a real tearjerker series called Unit 8 on RTE years ago; about the neonatal ward in Holles St.

skerriesmum · 27/04/2006 18:27

Did you have all your babies in Holles St? I didn't have a great birth there but all the postnatal staff were great.

Caligula · 27/04/2006 18:27

Agree it's offensive Fio. But people always make offensive comments about all sorts of groups who "shouldn't have children" - usually about the poor. And it doesn't normally cause quite so much reaction. Perhaps because the posters aren't so directly affected.

skerriesmum · 27/04/2006 18:28

Did you have all your babies in Holles St? I didn't have a great birth there but all the postnatal staff were great.

skerriesmum · 27/04/2006 18:29

Did you have all your babies in Holles St? I didn't have a great birth there but the postnatal staff were lovely.

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