3.5 year old refuses to use potty/toilet

[MummyandMummytobe]

We tried to start potty training our 3.5 year old just after Christmas; I tried to follow the 'Oh Crap' book (not the best confidence-instiller given it tells the reader a number of times it's infinitely more difficult over age 3/3.5..). The first day his bottom half was naked, and it went ok, the few times he started going we got him to the potty and some went in, he even did a no.2 in there.

However from day 2 onwards he started holding everything in, to the point where he was running around clearly in pain from needing to wee, but mostly refusing to sit on the potty; he sat on a couple of times but seemed distressed and wouldn't sit long enough for to go (despite really needing to..). Once we put in the bath just to get a wee out as he hadn't been for hours on end and I was starting to worry about UTIs etc. We gave up after a few days as all 3 of us were getting more and more traumatised by it, and toddler just wasn't himself, not happy and constantly asking when it was Bedtime (presumably as he knew he'd get a nappy).

Since then we've bought a larger 'toilet' potty, which is more comfortable for him to sit on. He's asked to sit on there a few times, but always when he's already been in his nappy, so not really any chance of doing anything. Of course we let him sit on anyway and praise him for it.

We spoke to preschool and they suggested waiting for him to decide he wants to start using potty/toilet. I just can't see it happening that he proactively chooses to. He starts school in September, although we've been assured that schools can't discriminate, so that's not so much of a worry now, but obviously not ideal.

Has anyone else had a similar experience at all, and have any tips to share? Thank you!

Sorry not the point but what does schools can’t discriminate mean!?

Does he have additional needs?

Do mainstream primary schools routinely change nappies?

I'm going back 22 years here but DS1 was very similar & I remember the panic of having to get him toilet trained by September or school wouldn't accept him. I've no idea what would happen had a child not been potty trained by the time they legally had to be in school.

We're going through exactly the same thing and the same concerns about school. DS is an August baby so we are considering deferring him for a year, not just because of toilet training but that's part of it for sure. I have no idea what to do really. He's very insistent that he wants to poo and wee in his nappy and doesn't respond to bribery or any of the usual techniques that are suggested. We have a week off at Easter and I'm going to try and crack it then. I think once he gets it, it will be very quick but he's become incredibly stubborn about it even though we barely mention it and try not to make it a big deal.

Sorry, by this I mean schools are obliged to give a place to un-potty trained children

My DD wasn’t quite so old but sounds very similar with the stubbornness and holding it all day! Nicely, you need to give it more time and not give up so quickly. Plan to stay home for a week, do no bottoms, pump him full of fluids- juice/ice lollies/everything, and have him try every 30 minutes until you start getting successes then start spacing it out. Throw out the nappies and buy night time pull ups that are strictly for bedtime only so he knows going back is not an option. You can do a small reward for a success like a smartie and have him help clean up accidents so it’s an inconvenience for him. I also used to say things like pee first then we go to the park, and be strict, so we’d wait for hours if necessary. And I would go straight to the toilet with a comfy padded seat and step stool because he’s probably too big for a little potty. I also wouldn’t jump to assuming he’s going to get a UTI because he’s holding it for a few hours. Some kids are just camels, my DD was one, and they’re tough to train but if they have that level of bladder control they’re 100% ready and are just being stubborn.

No additional needs (that we're aware of at least!)

It's reassuring we're not the only ones with this issue.. Ours is a July baby (but born 6 weeks prem, so should've been in the following year's intake in theory..).
He is extremely stubborn too, and likewise wasn't interested in any amount of bribery.
Good luck at Easter!

In the book she says there are camel children. Our daughter could really go most of the day without doing a wee, I think she might have done one early morning in her night nappy and then been ok for most of the day. I wouldn’t worry about a uti until you actually think he has one. It’s more likely he’d do a wee before it really got to that point.
Was the poo he did in the potty painful as it might have scared him? We do some things from the book and some things we’ve learned work well. Sit them regularly on the potty and praise and a sticker when they go. I think in the book she says if they only go in their nappy but a nappy in the potty. Ultimately though you might have to push through a stubborn/tricky phase and just see how far you get. September is 6 months away. I don’t think any child really wants to be wet or dirty and by just cleaning accidents up with no drama and praising the potty going you might find he cracks it soon enough. I also think a little bit of lactulose diluted in milk can be useful to keep their stools soft and comfortable especially if they’re wary and so withholding a bit.
If he is a summer baby and you can defer a year it might be worth doing as I’m wondering if the potty training proves tricky will he get the most out of reception and formal education starting this year?
Good luck!

Its definitely crap (pun intended) and the most stressful thing so far in being a parent! I started a thread on the same issue recently: Toilet Training - yes I left it late! http://www.mumsnet.com/Talk/potty_training/4739496-toilet-training-yes-i-left-it-late

What has worked for us:

1. Straight to toilet
2. Pants (pull ups only at night)
3. Sticker chart (I replicated the Hey Duggee one). Sticker for each "success" and end of day big sticker. DD now gets to choose a coin from a pot at the end of the day. When she has enough money we go to the shop so she can buy something. I also got some little plastic medal things.

We had to try various bribery methods along the way: stickers, small chocolates, money. The biggest thing is to make sure the toilet is accessible at all times so toilet training seat and step set up all the time. Yes, a faff for us but it means DD can get to the toilet with no hassle just like she does at school. We're on day 7 of no accidents at all! Even including days out - DD seems to like the novelty of other toilets

I don't like the oh crap book having trained typically 2 children a year over 29 years it's so inflexible and ignores children developing at their own pace....something we accept in all other areas of learning. I would never go bare having had parents do it a few times it's a nightmare you put clothes on and they are back to square 1.
Can he hold a wee for over an hour ..yep
Are his pooh times reasonably predictable and once or twice a day?
Can he tell or show you he needs to go? ....include hiding.
Can he pull trousers up and down?
If so put clothes on him pull up over pants if your getting frustrated. Sit him on the toilet....I've not used a potty in years and as he's older he will be more comfortable....if you can or use a large potty.
Make it fun. Get really over the top excited. Stick at it for a week

By straight to toilet I mean we bypassed the potty altogether! I figured at the age of 3 DD was beyond a potty especially since seeing other children use the toilet at school.

Have you tried straight onto the toilet? my daughter hated the potty. May be worth a go?

Thanks a lot for all the replies.

On using the toilet instead, we did offer/encourage him to use the toilet too, but he was if anything, even less inclined to sit on there. We've got the adapter seats/step stools etc but he's never sat on them. The larger 'toilet' potty we bought later is definitely more suitable than a normal potty, I agree these are too small for his age really.

He rarely tells us when he needs to go or even when he's been already. If we can tell he's been and ask him, it's 50/50 whether he gives us the right answer, so having a full nappy (inclusing no.2's) doesn't seem to bother him in the slightest. There are a few predictable times he tends to go for a no.2, but no idea on no.1s.

Thinking back, it was probably less the concern about possible UTIs, but more just how absolutely distressed and upset he was running round needing to go and not. I didn't want to give up, we tried for about 5 days but after a few days of this he was becoming increasingly withdrawn and we were genuinely worried that pushing on for longer would just traumatise him/instill a huge fear of the potty.

We tried a sticker chart, not incentivised by that. Maybe something like a coin collection with a prize after a certain amount could be of more interest!

They can change hugely in just six months so I wouldn't stress about school yet.

I took the stress out of it by putting mine in pull ups but still asking if they needed a wee /poo on the toilet regularly. Then when it seemed they were good at telling me about needing/doing a wee we switched from pull ups to pants. That meant they could figure out all the toilet stuff while still in pull ups so made it easier all round.

So maybe put him in pull ups, still encourage toilet/potty use and then try without pull ups when you think he's ready.

We also read lots of books about potty training to normalise it.

Mine were nearly 3.5 and I'd actually I'd read the opposite, that after 3 they will get it more quickly.

I didn't use stickers or rewards but they did get a clap for doing a poo or a wee or just for having a go.

Schools are not supposed to discriminate but they do, my child is almost 5, in nappies and since starting reception in September the school have been nothing but trouble, and unsupportive in every way. The amount of nastiness towards a 4 year old is remarkable. They've also messed me about regarding his EHCP and lied to me many times about the law. It's unbelievable, i only send him in half days now (Which they also don't like) as he copes better but the school system have made matters so much worse.

To the point where I'm not sending him back in September, I will be homeschooling, which again they've looked down on.

So don't expect the school to follow the law, they will constantly be battling you.

My DS was over 4 before training. He just wasn't interested despite repeated attempts. One day he just said he wanted to wear 'big boy' pants and that was it. Try not to worry.

It is so stressful! Congrats on 7 days, and hope it continues!

I'm so sorry the school are being like this, that sounds horrid. I hope things work out for you and your 4yo. Thanks for the heads up too. If it comes to it we'll definitely talk to them in advance and try and make sure the school will be OK with it (in case that helps..)

This is the dream!! Glad it worked out well.

Thank you. So did you find there was a difference in terms of interest in using the potty, with pullups compared to nappies? I can't help but think that (assuming he agreed to wear them) mine would just do exactly the same as now (ie refusal to try and do anything in the potty/toilet) just perhaps with a few more leaks.

Well, the difference is the ease of potty/toilet visits with a pull up.

If he's refusing to try them just leave it completely for a few weeks, then try asking if he wants to try and not pushing it too much. I think the bigger a deal you make it, the more stubborn toddlers just dig in and refuse. If you just relax about it (which is easier if doing a wee/poo outside the potty/toilet just requires a pull up change rather than cleaning the sofa/floor/clothes) they pick up on that too and it all just becomes less of a battle.

Have you tried letting him stand up to wee. DS point blank would not sit on the potty and after a few stressful days of trying to make him he just stood up, turned round and did his business (still struggling with poos though!). I figured he just wanted to go like he’d seen his dad go or just didn’t like to sit to have a wee as it didn’t feel natural to him after going whenever he wanted in a nappy.

Might not work but it’s worth a try!

Just to say my 3.5 year old refuses to use the potty.
I just feel rubbish about it, and embarrassed.