3.5 year old refuses to use potty/toilet

[MummyandMummytobe]

We tried to start potty training our 3.5 year old just after Christmas; I tried to follow the 'Oh Crap' book (not the best confidence-instiller given it tells the reader a number of times it's infinitely more difficult over age 3/3.5..). The first day his bottom half was naked, and it went ok, the few times he started going we got him to the potty and some went in, he even did a no.2 in there.

However from day 2 onwards he started holding everything in, to the point where he was running around clearly in pain from needing to wee, but mostly refusing to sit on the potty; he sat on a couple of times but seemed distressed and wouldn't sit long enough for to go (despite really needing to..). Once we put in the bath just to get a wee out as he hadn't been for hours on end and I was starting to worry about UTIs etc. We gave up after a few days as all 3 of us were getting more and more traumatised by it, and toddler just wasn't himself, not happy and constantly asking when it was Bedtime (presumably as he knew he'd get a nappy).

Since then we've bought a larger 'toilet' potty, which is more comfortable for him to sit on. He's asked to sit on there a few times, but always when he's already been in his nappy, so not really any chance of doing anything. Of course we let him sit on anyway and praise him for it.

We spoke to preschool and they suggested waiting for him to decide he wants to start using potty/toilet. I just can't see it happening that he proactively chooses to. He starts school in September, although we've been assured that schools can't discriminate, so that's not so much of a worry now, but obviously not ideal.

Has anyone else had a similar experience at all, and have any tips to share? Thank you!

The 3 primarys I have worked with all have to enter via a series of 2 automated gates then an intercom door into main reception outside of normal start and end of sessions. Nobody is allowed to walk through corridors with children normally brought to reception regardless of year group. Security is very tight. The one I'm most involved with currently supporting parents potty training have a lot of 5 and 6 year olds untrained with no SEND at this time this is the third year numbers have been so high. They also can't put coats on or off and are struggling to get parents to separate from the children.

Not all children will have a 1 to 1 not all EHCPS require it and many will still be awaiting an EHCP because nurseries and Childminders tend to leave it to schools but they can still have a diagnosis

@jannier yes it's a faff but the kids are potty trained pretty pronto once they realise the faff! Probably the whole idea of it.

@jannier I'm not disputing that some children won't yet have their EHCP if SEND but it's one thing having support staff to change a child's pants and trousers if they have an accident (but have parent's who have taken the initiative to try and potty train and the child is making effort to try, even if SEND) even if three times a day, and a whole other having to change a nappy and worst still, this becoming the 'norm'!!

Unfortunately we know for many there will still be issues right through school and beyond the number who have seen abuse and other ACES on top of lockdown are scary.

Were not talking about faff for parents although I'm not sure it's in a child's interest to sit in pooh for an hour or more but the staff required to ring multiple parents through the day, escort parents in wait with them and escort out....most walks from main reception to nursery being over 5 minutes would mean a member of staff would be needed for each nappy change just to babysit parents due to safeguarding for over half an hour that's 2.5 hours for just one nappy change each for 1 class....were 3 form entry so a whole working day.

I'm not disputing that many parents have not given their children a good start in many areas but that's not the child's fault .....if you had no contact with any of the normal support networks through pregnancy and after....no HV visits, no clinics, no mum to pop around etc how would you know what to do and when particularly if struggling with depression made worse by isolation we know PND, DV, child abuse etc are higher post Covid the number of referrals for coercive control issues is massive....it's hard to parent alone with these problems add to that the child that didn't go anywhere for best part of a year with few toddler groups and children's centres properly reopening they also will have issues. I spent a year studying the aces caused by lockdown and the support that would be needed most professionals did a quick 6 evening course.

@jannier I can't argue because I don't know the facts. But I do have a 3.5 year old. I didn't have support, groups, hv appointments, gratefully no DV or mental health issues but I have to say that I don't know any mums who haven't read or loosely know the expectations for child development (and as a parent). Obviously I'm aware I'm in a fortunate position and others may not be able to access the internet or have the ability to parent in this way, however I'd say that's the extreme minority and perhaps would have been that way whether COVID happened or not?

@dandeliondaisy Agreed!

I think you should also consider that percentage wise few parents are on forums like Mumsnet, and possibly your circle of friends are similar to you accessing and seeking support. In my area a lot of parents would have used their parents as sources of information and support and others the children's centres. Then of course a lot are still trying to work at home while doing childcare often using screens and food rather than interaction saving money and forgetting children need more.
Obviously in deprived areas things are worse with social workers not going in either.

In my own experience; the NHS website, for example, suggests a number of 'signs' that show toddlers are ready to be potty-trained. Mine was showing none of these. When he turned 3 we started getting concerned that nothing seemed to be changing. We mentioned to his preschool teachers we were thinking about having an attempt, and their response was that he wasn't ready, encouraging us to wait. So we did for a bit longer (my natural assumption would be that they're more knowledgeable about child development than us). Even now after our failed attempt they're suggesting we just wait until he decides to do it (rather than making a proactive attempt). I don't think we'll be following that advice

I don't think it's necessarily as simple as, research on the Internet and then do it. The sheer amount of guidance /information out there (sometimes contradictory) in itself can be overwhelming.

I do work with a child who showed no signs a month ago he will be 4 in August. This week it's clicked. Sometimes it just takes a short break.

Try blowing bubbles as it relaxes the tummy muscles. We had a potty that made a tune when they had a wee which they loved x

Yes it is strange

My dgd was started to be potty trained at 2 as was her dm. She is fully trained now at 3

Why do people want the cost of nappies till they are 5?

OP… was sent this today by childminder and watching the videos it’s all good stuff.
think it might really help you and it’s a slow approach (may have already been recommended haven’t read the whole thread!)

eric.org.uk/potty-training/

@Led9519 thank you very much, yes I know a couple of friends have found this website helpful. I was planning to ring their helpline, but will also watch the videos first, too, thanks.

@MummyandMummytobe I found some guidance from the parent and baby coach (I think she might have rebranded ) super helpful on this. Our son was totally resistant to using the toilet / potty - would get really upset if he was asked to sit on it (even if he would then wee himself a minute later). We had a week of him weeing/pooing in his clothes every time at the beginning and even now (at nearly 4) he still has occasional accidents at nursery and will leave it late (despite being asked) so he's desperate by the time he actually goes. Nursery told us to persevere rather than stop starting, given he was over 3, but there are different views on that. We also worked on a reward system - lots of praise if he made it to the toilet (or at least tried to), and treats for accident free days. And no shame for not making it to the toilet. It took a bit of time, but it did click eventually. It is a big change for them. I have no regrets leaving it until after he was 3: at least we were able to have a proper conversation about it with him, which would have been difficult at 2! I am hoping he will be more effective at bum wiping before he goes to school because otherwise it's going to be skid mark central!!! your son will get it eventually: you might just need to be prepared for it to take a bit longer than you expected. Good luck!!

A lot of judgemental posters here who apparently have no understanding of the difficulties some children have with toilet training. Particularly @PleaseJustText and @Macaroni46.

I've struggled with toilet training one of mine (having previously breezed through toilet training by 2.5). It's not for want of effort or parenting. I've tried lots of different things and it has driven me to distraction. I have sought advice from the health visitor and GP and class teacher. A friend with similar difficulty paid privately to see a paediatrician about it, to no avail whatsoever.

As it stands, things are gradually improving but we have still been summoned to school to clean our 4 year old up in the middle of the working day, which is obviously not ideal for anyone, and have accidents of various degrees several times a week.

OP, things I have found (gradually) helpful:
Keep up the praise around the behaviour that you want.
Bottom half clothing always off at home, and as soon as you are through the front door if you've been out.
Try to get a sense of when your child routinely tends to poo and if possible stay home and vigilant until the deed is done.
Whatever happens, don't take it personally and keep calm with the child. I have tried telling mine off when I was at my wit's end, but it had absolutely no positive impact and just made it more upsetting for everyone.
Best of luck! Ignore the smug posters!

@99pctpractice thank you! I'm glad it clicked for your son, it's reassuring to hear experiences like this and fingers crossed it will here too, at some point. Haha, yes I do wonder how effective diy bum wiping will be..

@Mwnci123 yes, it's the first time I've used mumsnet as I wanted to reach a wider group of mums, as none of my mum friends IRL have had such difficulties in this area. I accept it's (sadly) inevitable that alongside helpful support and advice there'll be some unnecessary judgey/self-righteous comments. Thankfully the former have outweighed the latter.

Thanks so much for the advice and sharing your experience. Good luck too, I hope things continue to improve!

Try pull ups OP and ping pong ball in your he toilet when I was working at a primary school it really helped a child who had autism also there had to be 2 x members of staff present when changing at all times

I think it’s too simplistic to say that by 3.5 if no SEN and no medical needs there must be some other reason, when sometimes it is as simple as it’s easier to not try. Nappies are so comfortable now it’s easier to keep wearing them than learn how to use the toilet.

As another poster said, make it less convenient for them. Get them to put Their own pull up on, use tablet/tv time as what will happen next after they have tried on the toilet.

I also think by the age of 3 they aren’t a toddler, they’re a pre-school child, toddler makes them sound much younger than they are.

Hello, I just thought I'd post an update on here (in case anyone sees it). We asked him Friday morning to put a pullup on, he wasn't interested, we gave him the choice of that or pants, he chose pants so we went with it (and trousers too). After a couple of initial accidents (where we made extra sure we were completely calm and even praised him for telling us he'd had an accident) he's been dry since. Like some others on here have said, something just clicked and he's been taking himself to the potty to do wees and poos. We have used a coin system to collect up and he gets a car after a certain number of coins which seems to have helped. We even went out for a bit today and he used the travel potty successfully. I'm so relieved!

It was definitely the right decision for us to stop trying at Christmas and give it a break for a bit. I know fairly early days, but so far this time round has been a completely different experience and actually really easy!!! Thanks again for helpful and reassuring posts, hopefully this is reassuring to anyone who's in a similar position.

Oh that's brilliant, I'm very pleased for you both!

I remember your thread before and we have similar aged (and stubborn) boys! We've had exactly the same experience this weekend; a few accidents on the first day but he's pretty much 100% in the potty since then. In hindsight, obviously, I shouldn't have stressed so much and known he would do it when he was ready.