Dec 08 it's time for sippy, tippy and doidy cups (& wee sticks!?!)

[Veggiemummy]

sorry could think of much and these where discuss on last page.

Ooohhhhhhh I made a complaint about a cow & gate and it's been investigated and they have agreed and they have to change the ad!!!!! Hooray power to the people!!!!

Nice one veg .
Control freak how ladyt?

Coo, Veggie, what did you say? What did they say?

arti - a wry laugh here too! I particularly feel for you as this week I am trying to get out of the door without DH being around. After randomly shovelling food into children/off the floor, putting on clothes, taking off messed up clothes and closing the door to a DD tantrum I am very happy to get to work...

I am also mightily impressed with the food your DCs are taking on. At the moment DS's day looks roughly like this:

7am - breastfeed
7.30am - munches on a few bits of toast fruit (but I think he probably wants more than this)
9.30am (rougly) - nap for an hour or so
11amish - 7oz bottle
12.30am - puree (usually homemade, sometimes pouch) and whatever bits of DD's lunch he feels like swiping
1pm - nap for anything up to about 2 hours
4pm - 7oz bottle
5.30pm - more puree and whatever bits of DD's tea he fancies
7pm - breastfeed (or later if I can't get home in time)
Breastfeed whenever he happens to wake up in the night - can be no times, or up to 3/4 times, it just depends.

He's definitely recently gone from not really getting the whole eating thing to being really quite a hungry fellow. This week he's been quite cross in the morning if he doesn't have his toast to chew on straight away

spot and wg - yay for nights out! I think DH owes me one when he gets back - can't wait!

DCs came to see me for lunch today, which was fun - took them to a Korean place where I'm relatively regular and I thought they would tolerate the mess! They both charmed everyone in the office until a very important partner from the US started a conference call next door and DD wanted to explore...oh well.

Spot - cos of my freakishly tidy feeding routine where the child gets fed in three exact slots and gets her milk at the same time. I must say it suits ME, but maybe I am bending her to my will and only thinking it suits her as well.

Ah well. I'm not gonna be Woody Allen about this and overanalyse She seems totally fine. Still wouldn't drink from a cup or a sippy if her life depended on it, but fine

WG - the running book sounds tempting. I've always loathed running, but wished I could do it and am being utterly useless at getting myself to any kind of regular exercise.

Really sorry for your rubbish night and frustration. Its probably all been said before, but always found with both my children, they sleep much better out of our room than in - I think we just disturb each other! As far as other people settling them - I know its scary, but just try. I really worried about this with DD before I went back to work, as I always settled her falling asleep on the boob, she wouldn't bottle feed etc etc. Anyway, I had to go back to work when she was around 6 months old, to a job where I worked long hours and with a child who wouldn't bottle feed. Amazingly within a week or so DH got the hang of putting her to bed. I think to start with she wailed a bit before falling asleep, but it didn't take too long. All that happened was that I would feed her later, around 10pm after I got back and whenever she wanted at night. Basically, needs must for everyone and DD survived fine. I honestly was terrified of what would happen (esp as DD was a bottle refusnik) but we jumped in at the deep end and it was fine. Its totally OK to do things for yourself and DCs are more adaptable than you'd think. Anyway, not sure this is any help, but I did feel like this first time round...

Oh and Spot - yay for the pub quiz. Were the questions hard?

Arti - I felt for you this morning. My goodness. I'd have been howling like a banshee with that sort of start to my day. When do you finish work for the summer? Now you are actually back, are you finding it ok?

WG - sorry you had another crap night. I think you do need to try getting her into another room if only to give you a rest. I sympathise. DD is still in with us and the reason she is and not up on the mezzanine is because DP doesn't want her to go. I will miss her peeping through the bars of the cot it's true, but I just think (for me) it's time.

Invis - Korean... A blinkin' avocado is exotic around here.

I didn't think your routine sounded particularly strict Lady, don't forget you've got just the one so you don't have a 2nd that has to fit around school runs etc. I think you would be flexible if you had to be but obviously it works for both of you so it's all good. I actually believe a lot of our personality is in our genetic make up so a sloppy non routine type like me will have babies who are fine with that and babies who like routine will be born of mothers who will happily provide them routine, of course this is open to debate but anecdotally (sp) this seems true.

LadyT - tis just glorified chinese really, but hey we tried! And on a complete tangent, avocados are very popular with DS and best of all, involve no cooking!

I'm afraid I'm with Veggie on the lax laid back approach to weaning and eating. Rest assured that I am eating enough for 2, nay even 3, of us (see fatties thread).

5am - BF
Early morning (dep on school runs for the other 2 etc) - fruit to drop / munch, sometimes toast, sometimes Weetabix

BF in the morning at some point

Lunch - less hurried so a bit of what the girls are having. Pasta, veggies, toast, potatoes, not done meat or fish yet

BF before nap

Dinner - see lunch. Not much goes in, lots on floor.

BF after dinner.

Numerous breadsticks and rice cakes throughout the day. Possibly more BF if the situation warrants (eg one of girls clunked him with a toy)

I reckon (and judging by what comes out) that he's not taking on much in the way of solids but seems to be enjoying playing with them nonetheless

WG - I have only had decent sleep with no 1 and 3 once they have been out of the room. DD2 would sleep through anything. M did not sleep for more than 3 hours until he was installed next door at 6.5 months. Really helped sleep as, even now, he is very sensiive to movement and noise and stirs if I so much as set foot in the room.

I do think Veggie is right - some babies are prorgrammed to thrive on routine. Others are not. DD1 was not, DD2 is. On top of her feeding routine outlined below she has taken to sleeping at the same times. She always startes her day between 6.00am and 6.05am, her punctuality is like an alarm clock. She then naps from 9am - 10.15am and 12.30 to 2.30pm. I usually put her to bed for the night at 6.45pm and can hear her coo-ing until 7pm when she falls asleep. Its not my genes but it is her way!

I am not doing well at avoiding MN while at work today. Last night was the end of the parliamentary term and I drank a little too much. As a result I am pacing myself by allowing myself to check this thread between each chunk of work. I am currently waiting to give a talk to a man who does my job but in the Canberra parliament in Australia. Lucky Devil that he is. Why am I never sent on fact finding missions to Oz? Anyway, after this talk I am off home and then I only have to work tomorrow and Monday and I start my nine week holiday. I really feel I have earned the break .

Well she thinks he should be able to sleep all night. So this is what she has suggested. We give him some more milk so about 4oz more. Also try to give him some toast with jam or cheese.

He is going into his own room at the weekend(after I put up his gorgeous Cath Kidston wallpaper) and then we start putting him to bed 20 minutes earlier every other night. So Saturday night we put him to bed at 11 then Sunday night 10:40 and then Tuesday night 10:20. She said to keep doing this until he goes to bed at a time we are happy with.

Oh and Lady I said a couple of things but in particular I said that the cow&gate follow on milk ad implied that the formula boosted the immune system but that there was no evidence of a scientific research basis to this claim. Nutricia presented some evidence of prebiotics in older children. Initially this was taken to show that the claim had a basis. However an expert looked at the research and apart from concerns about how it was carried our and the age group used not transferring to 6-12 month old babies, the expert also pointed out a small but important difference. The milk product used in study was a hydrolysed milk powder with prebiotic in it so could rule out allergy issues. However formula is made on non hydrolysed milk powder so there is quite a difference and therefore the claims cannot be attributed to the formula. Sorry that's a quick over view but I hope that explains the gist. I'm not a non formula Nazi but I do believe that companies should make claims which aren't true, and also know that these companies are dodgy and will flout the law as much as possible because even if they get found out they will just get a little rap across the knuckles but the misinformation is already out there. This is true of the Aptimal closest to breastmilk, they put ok their packaging for about a month got found out, took it off but still years later even midwives still suggest Aptimal as the closest to BM. The power of advertising.

Veggie - that's a good point I didn't think of earlier, so now I feel ok about my laid back sloppy non-strict routine!(today's example was just what happened today and hopefully tonight!) but yeah when I have another -hopefully sooner rather than later - I can imagine you really have to do what works -- those with 2 or 3 even - much respect [bow down emoticon]

Veggie - well done! Its totally insidious what they get away with for advertising. I knew about the Aptamil ad, but it still ended up buying it for DS - its somehow the word of mouth choice round here.

On routines and babies - I am definitely of the school of whatever works! I've never been very strict about what I do, but I have found they do eventually fall into something that suits them and if you mess with it too much, they get grumpy. Having said that, our habits do go to pot at weekends or if there is a plan where nap times don't exactly fit...TBH, DS's sort of routine just comes from the fact he has to work around DD's plans...

Really useful to see how much the other babes are eating. After a really slow start, Madam now can't get enough food in her gob. Herroutine is (vaguely) as follows:
7.30-8am wakes, 7oz milk
9ish breakfast cereal (depending on movements, if DS is at school then we skip breakfast as she's usually too tired by the time we get back)
9.30-11 (sometimes 12) sleep
12 lunch of puree, toast fingers, yoghurt
1pm 6oz milk
2-3pm sleep
4pm 8oz milk
4.30-5.30pm sleep
6pm supper of puree + toast/ veg/ fruit and yoghurt
6.45pm bath
7.30 8oz milk and bed

She has been sleeping through since 3 months (sorry!),will occasionally wake in the night, but settles quickly with the dummy.

She sat up on her own for the first time this morning so I got over excited and sat her on a ride-on tractor at a Farm Park we visited, which she promptly slid off. Luckily she did have a sense of humour about it.

I am going out for the whole night on Friday, supper and drinks with the girls and then staying the night with a friend, so I am going to get a hole 12 hours off from children, can't wait, although DH is already talking about having one in the bank and going out for a 'session' on Saturday, not sure how that works !

Oh and good luck Trace, hope the interview went really well.

whole, not hole

Invisible they are all as bad as each other, though worst of all is the govt for not adopting the full WHO policy on infant nutrition, and don't even get me started on the supermarkets.

dear lord... supposed to be going up to see pil this weekend to talk about possible bowel cancer. then get a call from my dad to say he is going into hospital tomorrow to have his achilles tendon operated on - he fell over a couple of weeks ago, thought it was nothing, then was encouraged to go to the doctor, and within 48 hours he'll be operated on. and he won't be able to drive for 3 months afterwards. he lives alone in a tiny village. hmmm... oh, and to top it all, his lovely ladyfriend has just left him (this has happened a few times before, but not for the last 3 years) - she wants them to sell their houses and join forces and buy one together as a proof of commitment. he thinks living together either in his house or in her house, or in portugal is good enough. selfishly enough, i am furious with her as she is great and a fabulous person to have around and she has been so helpful with madam. but it's not about me.

ugh ugh ugh. so we are trying to think how to combine going to north wales with travelling to suffolk and dh also has a hospital appointment to have a camera shoved up his arse tomorrow which he is dreading (hopefully also revealing that he is fine and doesn't have any nasties lurking down there - tmi, sorry). so all in all, everything is a little bit shite.

but had a lovely afternoon with a friend who cooked the most gorgeous food, after i had sobbed all morning from lack of sleep. ugh.

by the way - the eating routines are so so so useful - thanks to all for writing them down. i am obviously not feeding madam enough - i offer her solids (purees) twice a day and that is about it - must get on with it.

Blimey WG, that's a crummy week all round Sorry to hear about all of that.

And North Wales via Suffolk...oooh. I hope you work it out and that DH is ok

Well, DP has reluctantly taken apart the cot and put it on the mezzanine above our bedroom. So DD is sort of in her own room now.

He gave her two or three kidney beans to eat - groan. When I went to clean her teeth she was storing three kidney bean skins in her mouth. Not good!

good on your dp, ladyt - hopefully our turn next weekend.

and can someone clarify when we should be brushing teeth? and how exactly does one do it???

Ah, well my SIL is a dentist so we're a bit hot on that stuff round here. She says that you should brush as soon as they have their first tooth! Buy a first size toothbrush and the merest smear of Macleans Milkteeth, and gently rub it on the tooth. Wrap their arms in a towel if they aren't compliant but DD likes it so we don't need to. It only takes a few seconds. I have no idea if it's worth it or not but DP is insistent. His sister is a good dentist and did it with her three (who are 7, 5 and 2).

Well hello everyone.
I have not been around for a while, have just been a-lurking.

News from here.
Well we went on holiday, but I think I have posted since then. We had a fabulous time in the Lake District even though it was over that roasting hot week, and DS didn't sleep that well.
Then the weekend after we had a car crash, which was not good. Our car is (we think) written off. It wasn't DH's fault (he was driving), he was driving at about 50 along a 60 mph road when a car comng the opposite direction decided it would be a sensible option to turn into a side road directly in front of us . It was such a point blank error that there was nothing he could do apart from slow down a bit and hit it. Fortunately we were in a massive Passat estate and they were in a Ford Ka. However, everyone was fine, including those in the other car. But obviously lots of shock, esp given DS was in the car and both my parents too. My brother was driving to meet us in a pub and v upset, saying "all my proper family was in that car" and worrying about what might have happened. Funnily enough my SIL was the most angry with the other driver, she was absolutely furious. Still not sure what is going on as it appears that despite being prosecuted for dangerous driving by the police the other party is disputing insuance claim . Not going to get wound up about it now though as the insurance co seems a bit dopey and I think it may all be chinese whispers.

Oh and we have a Jag hire car, very swish indeed but doesn't fit in bikes so rubbish for our needs. So just waiting to confirm poor little Passat is written off and then we will get a new car.

Oh and in good news from me, I have sorted otu going back to work, and have a slightly different role going back which is not programming, whcih is what I wanted! Which is great because it means I can look forward to going back to work somewhat, even though obviously leaving DS will be crap. And DH may take half a day a week to spend with him too which will be great.

OK, now my brief attempt at a catch up:

arti sorry about your morning, but thankyou very much for your description of it. It brought a smile to my face! Also my DH's cousin lives in Dulwich and loves it (she has an 18 month oldish son). I used to live in Camberwell, and remember visiting this guy from my Computing course who lived in Dulwich and going to his massive old (family) house and walking around this lovely
park with him. It was lovely.

Weight loss, well I didn't find that bfing helped weight loss, I lost 1.5 stoneish after having DS but through what I thought was as hard dieting as I would have to do without bfing. BUT since I stopped, the first month I lost the final kg I had given up on by not eating excessively, and since then I have eaten quite a lot and not put on weight. So although I found it hard to lose weight bfing, I think I have found I can eat quite a lot without putting on weight. Bizarre.

LadyT I am very glad to hear about sorting out your financial issues and that you are getting house after all! Fingers xed for the survey.

Trace lots and lots of luck for the interview.

Kayz my DS does sleep at 7pm now, it seems that most people I know now put their DCs to bed around 7 to 8 even if they stayed up til 10 to 11 to begin with so maybe this is the magic sleep panacea. Just a suggestion, yikes, but maybe you could try following Gina Ford's feed/sleep times for a few days and see if it helps. I don't know how much i can mention GF, but i have the book, and though I dislike it, I have looked at the timings in it from time to time to compare with DS, and sometimes tried to adjust a bit to match it if he's having trouble sleeping in the night, and sometimes it has helped.

Eating well after my initial wobbles, DS is eating better, but he still doesn't eat enthusiastically, and I can't imagine him ever crying/complaining if he doesn't get solids like he does about milk, but i guess that will come. LadyT similar reluctance here to anything that is plain veg, though I can usually sneak some in it is a struggle. I just go with the adding fruit/cheese/yoghurt/meat (obv not suggesting the latter for you) whcih are his favourite things. I am fine with that. In my opinion his food tastes better like this so I don't blame him. Ella's kitchen though I did have a laugh at their "Carrots, apples and parnsips"- I bought this - sounds oh so healthy, it is bloody 68% apple. Might as well say "Apple cut with a tiny bit of carrot and parsnip", not surprising they bloody like it!

pmk my thought on your house dilemma would be to go for it, particularly with the 12 month clause. After all in the current market you never know if people are just letting out for a bit anyway and will boot you out as soon as the market picks up anyhow. Though I might have missed something along the way and you are not going for this place, sorry if i have missed.

Wg I really hope things get better for you soon. You sound like you are having a really tough time. Sorry I can't say anything more helpful . If you want to come up to cambridge for a day I will furnish you with cake (same goes for anyone else mind you!)

meetups I may be down in London to visit a friend for a day or two, so could be up for meeting up. I will let you all know! She lives in Raynes Park sort of way, is anyone out that direction (sorry can't remember, think pmk was, are you still until your move?). Also Cambridge meetup?? Not sure where jj is? I saw her yesterday and she seemed well, cheeky S was asleep for once as well. Maybe she is having internet problems

veggie v impressed with your triathlon training! I am cycling maybe twice a week for a decent ride at the moment. (Decent ride being a couple fo hours, nothing massive). Would liek to up that!

veggie and kayz the tour is hotting up isn't it!! Going to watch the highlights in a mo!

Oh - development - rolling, crawling, etc.
Well DS has been up on hands and knees trying to crawl for about a month now. He's getting better and I would say can go slowly forwards if he chooses to but wouldn't quite call it "crawling" yet. It's soooo cute though as he's so small it looks like a little 4 month old crawling! He's also a little gobshite and is always babbling/shrieking. Today he was saying "Mamamama", def just coincidence though (I encouraged him a lot though). Oh and his sitting up is rubbish. Always slumping over in a high chair too. And like I said, his eating is crap too.

Oh I shall post what DS has done today re routine though it varies a bit.
Last night

7pm sleep.
11:30 dream feed (I went out cycling so not back til then)
6 am wake and BF.
Sleep til 7:30 (sleep loosly, I was sleeping, he was burbling some of this time)
8 am a little more BF
8:30 breakfast of baby cereal (not much, just started trying breakfase)
10:15 little BF (I was trying not to, to cut down his feeds, but he shrieked)
10:20 sleep
11 am wake
11:15 BF.
11:30 lunch (usually a bit later but I was going out) Puree (didn't manage that much), toast with houmous (mostly down his front), a bit of nectarine.
12:30-1:15ish sleep
2 - 3 ish BF on and off
3:30-4ish sleep
4:40 dinner, puree, more toast, yoghurt.
6:30 bf.
7pm sleep.

Right mammoth post, gonna post it now!

Really quick post to say Turnip you are a gem!! That message on FB was a real help and was quite mood boosting when I have been feeling quite low. We are going to give the Gina Ford timings a go. Hoping that I can find them on the Internet because the book is out of the library and is reserved for 8 weeks.

SL sorry to hear about your crash. Tour has been great hasn't it? Thanks for your input on the sleep and GF times too. I kinda feel like I don't know what I doing as DS1 had no routine and slept through from 8 weeks. So this not sleeping is new to me.