JUNE 2008- tantrums, shrieking and lashings of Gin (and that's just the mums!)

[pureeandpearls]

Thread number 123 or something like that

Poppy - sorry to hear you're missing out on things being back at work, couldn't they have the party at the weekend?

Paro - don't know how you're coping with moving, jobs, wedding and Fleur, your head must be spinning. What style dress are you hoping for?

Sponge - would be happy to help out if I can ith bfeeding, Abdn makes a valid point, you might not have conceived if you'd been bfeeding now.

Ethan's been poorly today with a high temperature but no other symptoms, got him cooled down before bed though and no crying yet. Seeing him hot and listless though I couldn't help but think of Josey and her family and wonder just how you cope.

x posted, hi Sponge and whinegums

sponge as long as it's a happy cry I'm a huge believer in fate for things like this! And I just read an article about why breastfeeding is overrated www.theatlantic.com/doc/200904/case-against-breastfeeding/

Good luck with tonight's sleeping, Amber.

Poppy it's really hard going back to work. Are you enjoying the grown-up stuff?

Sponge fwiw I agree that doing your research now about bf will be useful, before it can become an immediate source of anxiety,

I had a total screaming meltdown with my poor DH last night (not about anything important). It's our baby's anniversary around now and I thought I would be ok but obviously not .

So worried about Josey and Oli, but I'll admit I wasn't sure what it meant. She's such a fighter, right?

Amber at the milk! Do you have any other symptoms that you're lactating? (This is out of interest more than anything else!) And Sponge, yes, yes, please post on here! I'm training to be a peer support person thingy! My learned advice is to RELAX!! Never, ever use the word fail - that's not fair on yourself because you can only fail an exam if you haven't prepared, if you've not done the right work, and not tried hard enough. You were prepared, did the right work, and tried hard. You can't possibly fail. (OK, I'm reusing something here . I had counselling about work issues - I didn't get a job I really wanted and deserved, and never really got over it; part of why I had the counselling. So, she explained that I shouldn't see it as failure, because I had worked hard, done well at interview, had all the qualifications...but there was a hidden criteria that nobody told me about and that I couldn't possibly meet (FYI 'not enough of an historian'!!!). And I see your experience a bit similar somehow?)
So, don't think about it too much - or rather, think about it but don't beat yourself up about what happened before because stress can affect milk supply. Totally relax. Say 'I really want to bf', and when those doubts start creeping in think (a) what you'll do to counter any problems, and (b) if it doesn't work out (don't wish for the worst, obviously) then say fine, I accepted it before, I'll accept it again - this baby will be just like his big brother i.e. normal, healthy, not suffering any major psychological ill effects from that perfectly normal and healthy milk he's having.

Also, yes to the things to draw out inverted/flat nipples (my Mum admitted that she has one inverted nipple but bfed me fine with it, and didn't mention any major pain or stress but then she might not anyway, it being quite a private thing) but don't try doing things to boost milk supply etc and 'prepare' your nips for bfing because nothing much will do that.
2 other top tips. 1 = video 'follow me mum' by Rebecca Glover. 2 = hire a lactation consultant to arrive around day 3 (when milk comes in) to ensure all is working out as it does. If bfing is fine and working well, then you've 'wasted' your money. But she could nip any problems in the bud and sort out a bad latch, pain, etc.

Sorry about the pun there - anyone spot it?

Abdn - any news from Josey?

"nip any problems in the bud" Essie ! You've made some really good points there Essie, good advice for Sponge.

Rolf - sorry you had a tough time of it yesterday, how are things today?

Amber - how was last night?

Ethan ended up sleeping with us from 1.00 but he's much cooler today and a little less whingey! Oh, just realised he's 10 months today - better get the video out, Ali - have you remembered?

No news from Josey - it is a hassle for her to use her phone because she has to leave O and go all the way outside (and it's not like the maternity hospital where we all sneak our phones in and use them anyways - bit more serious in childrens!).

On a less serious note - we woke up at 1am to water pouring through our bedroom ceiling. A pipe had burst and was leaking. Fortunately we caught it before the ceiling caved in but then we spent the next two hours cleaning it up, setting up the spare bed (ours is wet), settling and feeding Fraser. It took us both at least an hour to fall asleep after that and I've realized the spare bed (a futon) is rubbish. Plumber's already been here though and it'll be fixed today so it's not the end of the world.

Fraser was due some crying it out as his sleep habits have been rubbish and he got it last night! He woke almost right away but we had to just leave him as our arms were full of sodden loft insulation. He slept brilliantly from half two to half six so maybe this will be the silver lining...

Morning!

Poppy- it does get easier being back at work

Debs-Yes all the planning is a bit hard at times and Dp gets quite stressed with me but hey 10 weeks to go eeeeeek !
I know i really dont want a white dress really or any kind of traditional one, its also got to be reasonable price Im looking at evening dresses at the moment similiar to these

Sponge - Hehe for virtual slap I really would like to help you so i wouldn't mind you posting your story (can remember some of what you went through but not all ) if you feel able to If you dont want to post it here then you could email me if you like

Ah - OH! at loft but maybe it was a blessing in disguise!!!

Oh and fleur didnt sleep through last night wakings at 11 1 and 5 but she did sleep til 8.30am tooday (Hehe it was my turn to get up with her when it was DPs yesterday she was up at 7 !)
Paro slinks away sniggering

Ok what is warmongering and malingering!!!! When i typed sniggering spell check came up with those two words!!!

BOLLOCKS!!!!!! Just wrote a whole million page response and got deleted by accident. Right to start again...

Sponge - the reason why I bought the niplette is because I too was devastated that i couldn't breastfeed. I tried everything but it didn't work. Luke didn't really want to know but I'm fairly sure that having flat nipples didn't help at all. Mark and I are going to TTC soon - maybe even next month so I want to try anything i can to give it the best shot I can next time round. They are little plastic thingies that go over the tips of your nipples and you use a syringe to suck them out (sounds awful but not that bad). You wear them as much as possible and they say that in a few months you could have permanent protruding nips! You mustn't use them in the final trimester so I would get on with it if you are going to get some!

Had a good night with Luke. He did scream at 12.30 but then just stopped and went bck to sleep in about 5 minutes. The nursery are going to try the sleep technique on all their babies now as it was so effective with Luke. The cot monitor went off last night and I seriously thought something awful had happened. Luke was holding his breath and lying completely still. I screamed and picked him up and he let out a huge lungful and then went back to sleep again. Clearly I however then couldn't get a minute's sleep for the rest of the night.

Paro - how can those dresses be so cheap???!

Aberdeen - any more news from josey?

Deb, sorry to hear Ethan's poorly .

AH, it was a happy cry - a very happy cry . I'm twelve weeks today and can't quite believe it. 12 wk scan on Monday, after which I may start believing I'm going to have another baby .

Sorry to hear about your leak - what a nightmare.

That article was absolutely fascinating - double dare you to post it on the bf thread! I've long been extremely sceptical about the health benefits of bf - not that I don't think there are any, but I think they are hugely exaggerated. The only baby in our NCT group who has been excl bf for 10 mths has had about 4 rounds of antibiotics already, whereas Alex has had nothing stronger than a bit of calpol!

I have also tried to argue the point with tiktok and others before that studies about the health/IQ benefits are never going to be accurate because the participants are self-selecting. I've always been shouted down - but then I've never had good enough evidence to back up my argument!

Having said all that, I still want to bf! Essie, thanks for the tips - how do I get hold of the vid? And how do I find a lactation consultant?! Is this something I would get through the NCT or LLL? I would definitely need someone to come to my house as I clearly can't visit a bf clinic with Alex bombing around!

Paro, those dresses are gorgeous .

Amber, can't believe what a difference there is already in Luke's sleep . Althought what a pain that the alarm then meant you couldn't sleep . Fingers crossed there won't be a repeat tonight. Thanks for the tips about the nips - did you say it was from Boots? Interested to know why you can't use them in the 3rd trimester.

Paro - what lovely dresses and so cheap too.

Sponge - he's feeling better now thanks, wow 12 weeks, looking forward to hearing the news after your scan.

Abdn - sorry to hear about your leak, hope it does have a silver lining!

Amber glad you had a good night and that Nursery is also changing it's sleep routines.

sponge there's a theory that too much nipple stimulation could bring on labour. It's just a theory but that's why it won't be appropriate for the third trimester.

And no way am I posting that on the feeding threads!!!! I think there probabably is a minor health benefit, but I do agree that measuring the IQ benefit especially will be flawed due to self-selection!

AH, oh yes I have heard that before.

Gutted that you won'r post it on the bf thread - I'd be there to support you!

I have bookmarked the article to read it again - just shared it with dh and he said he reads The Atlantic quite alot and always finds it very interesting. Have to confess I've never heard of it before .

Yep Sponge it's because nipple stimuation can bring on labour.

Hello Everyone,

Not been around over the last few days. My parents were here, and it has just been a bit too busy to post. My parents got stuck in Dieppe on Wednesday and only got to our house at 4am on Thursday morning. They were shattered after sitting at the docks for 10 hours.

Anyway...

...all back to normal here. P has now been snotty for 6 weeks and has added a cough to his woes this week. At what point should I take him to the GP? I don't think it is necessary, and I don't think there is much he could do or prescribe. P seems happy enough anyway.

Deb - yes, I have remembered to video today. Happy 10 months to Ethan. Glad he is feeling better. LOL at Rolf and the playpen.

Very troubled to hear about Oli's ongoing battles. Poor wee thing. AH you are a lovely friend for going to visit Josey and all the support you offer. I am sure your boys are fine really, but it must be difficult being upbeat with them when you feel down yourself.

Amber sounds positive on the sleep front. I have to say that I am a bit at the nursery changing their routines on the back of a customer's advice. You would have thought they didn't need to be told.

Sponge - my Mum wanted to know how you are. She was pleased to hear that things are still going well. On all things BF, my personal view is that luck has a hand in establishing BF. P seemed to "get it" immediately, and I had very little hand it how it went. Admittedly a midwife in the hospital did tell me that I had "a good set of equipment" , so maybe trying the nipple things that Amber has suggested is a good idea. Because I think luck has alot to do with it, beating oneself up if it doesn't work out is a real pity, and best avoided if at all possible. Definitely stay away from the nasty BF boards on here. At my ante-natal class on BF I asked the teacher if there was anything I should be doing to prepare myself for BF. She said there was nothing you could do. I had been wondering whether eating certain things, or using creams on your boobs might help establish the milk supply, but apparently not. What you might find difficult as a friend of mine certainly did is trying to BF DC2 when DC1 is running around, especially as you will be used to FF and that might be easier. If you can brave it, maybe you should start a thread asking for positive stories of BF DC2 when DC1 was FF. Don't know if your remember Mamawhizz who used to post on here, but I seem to remember that she had successfully established BF with DC2 having FF DC1.

Well, P has awoken from is "long" nap after 20 mins [sigh] and is probably standing up in his cot wondering where I am. I am still having trouble with daytime naps, ignoring him doesn't seem to work. So, I had better go and see what his lord and master requires!

Sponge, I didn't get on with LLL, but I found these people instead. I was lent the video, but the same place - expressyourselfmums also sells it. The video was good but the accent was quite funny after a while! Plus they always show African tribeswomen breastfeeding and their latches are all over the place IMO! Babies hanging on by the gums and all that.
Also agree with Ali about the 'equipment' . I overheard a nurse at the hospital muttering something about 'shouldn't be a problem with those nipples' when Iestyn latched on for the first time. But I never thought I'd say - with pride! - that I clearly have tough leathery nipples...

Also about all the amazing benefits of bfing. I even read that a bf baby going to nursery won't catch colds. (Not true, btw.) What is it, miracle juice? If that's the case, why isn't it available to buy in Holland and Barret, or prescribed for all ailments?

LOL Essie. If BF babies aren't meant to catch colds, then why has P been a snot machine for 6 weeks .

Ali - I agree on the nursery thing - clearly not having been through this before I thought it was perfectly normal to let the babies sleep whenever they wanted. The nursery called me this morning to say they put Luke down at 9 and he went straight to sleep and had been for one and a half hours and should they wake him. God bless the sleep consultant!

PMSL at Essie and Ali and their good equipment!! Would it be really shallow to admit I'm slightly worried about having permanently stuck out nipples when I don't want to bf anymore and will no longer feel relaxed in a t-shirt?!!

Ali, your poor parents being stuck at the port - how stressful . So sweet of your mum to ask after me .

KWYM about looking after Alex while bf-ing - I have read a few threads about this recently, but the problem is that everyone on the bf thread is so keen to portray the "bf is wonderful and everyone should do it" line that I'm not sure they're being entirely honest. I obviously don't want Alex to suffer while I concentrate entirely on spongelet.

Btw, might be worth having P's snotty nose checked out in case it's not a cold? I only say that cos I have allergic rhinitis and a permanently snotty nose, so maybe he has an allergy? Or is he too young? I don't know! As you can see from all my question marks I'm only guessing but just thought it would be worth eliminating!

Essie, I thought you were selling your excess milk in Holland and Barrett?! Thanks for the link. I think alot of the health benefits are genetic, i.e. the obesity thing mentioned in AH's article - makes far more sense that an obese parent is more likely to have obese children, than if she bf the child would not be at risk of obesity. It's so much more complex than that - but as I say when I argued this with tiktok I got well and truly put in my place.

Ali, is P on the move yet, as in on his feet? I only ask cos since A has started pulling himself up, cruising and walking with his baby walker he is now having 1hr - 1 1/2 hr naps both morning and afternoon . And you know what a rubbish sleeper he used to be!

Amber, way to go Luke!

Sponge - whether it's good or bad to have sticking out nipples is directly proportional to wherabouts on your boob they are! For me they're about as far south as humanly possible so not so good a look! Maybe we should get some sticking plasters just in case.

Ali - I'm getting Luke checked for an allergy with his ever lasting cold - might be worth a check.

sponge Duncan loves that I breastfeed Fraser because I always let him watch TV so I can have some peace .

Sponge ds1 was always good for me when I bfeed dd 'cos he got to watch the goggle box too. I think that is really common and it doesn't seem to have done him any harm.

I think Essie's idea about a lactation ocnsultant coming to see you is a great one, but I wouldn't be put off going to a drop-in centre afterwards with A. I think they are used to having toddlers around too.

In my experience bfeeding has not stopped illnesses. Colds and snotty noses don't seem to care what your kids drink. I would like to believe it has helped them to not get anything worse though, if only because I have spent more then 3 years of my life doing it!

Hmm, interesting about the snot maybe being caused by an allergy. My GP has already warned me that his eczema is almost certainly "just eczema" and not to go reading stuff on the internet about food allergies causing it , so I suspect he is unlikely consider this a possibility. Maybe I should talk to one of the HV's first.

Yes P is on the move. He started crawling 3 weeks ago and is now cruising the furniture too. His night sleep is much better. He just struggles to stay asleep for more than 30 mins. However, after I posted earlier, I went up, lay him down again and he slept for another 50 mins, so maybe is will repeat this again soon.

Ali - I'm going to get my GP to give me a referral to an allergist. If they say he's not allergic to anything then great but if he is at least I can startdoing something about it. This is why I decided to get an appointment.

? Does it seem like your baby always has a cold? Colds usually wind down in a week to ten days; allergies don't.
? Is your baby's nose continually stuffy or running?
? Is she constantly wiggling, wiping, or pushing her nose up in what doctors call the allergic salute?
? Is the mucus that drains from her nose clear and thin (as opposed to yellow or greenish and thick)?
? Does she seem to sneeze a lot?
? Are her eyes itchy, red, and watery?
? Does the skin under her eyes look dark or purple or blue ? what doctors call allergic shiners?
? Does she breathe through her mouth?
? Does she have a dry cough?
? Is her skin irritated or broken out in an itchy red rash?

We answered yes to almost all of these.