The 6th Broadly Gemini Luxury Bus - this way ladies.

[FrussoHathor]

Welcome aboard our 6th bus ladies.

[bringonthetrumpets]

So sorry to hear of your headache Frus!! Hugs and for you.

[FrussoHathorAKADaisythecow]

Thanks for the bring headache is most definately lack of sleep.
And ds, who I took on the dog walk in his parent facing buggy because he doesn't sleep on the walk in his cot because he likes looking at me, is now fast asleep in his buggy.

[Lorelei353]

How's the head frus? And how's the vomiting bring?

We'd a great evening. He went down at 7.45 for 45 mins, but went down without a fight. Then he had a little feed and went down again about 9.15 with not too much resistance again and slept until 3! He was a bit more awake thn normal after that feed so took until 4.20 to get him down again but then he went until 6. Definitely feels like progress towards sleeping through the night is being made. If I'd done a little dream feed around 11pm he might have stayed down longer. How do you do that? Just pick them up and stick boob in their mouth, or is the idea that they'll stir a bit so you feed them quickly before they really wake up? He was so deeply asleep, I didn't want to disturb him in case we couldn't get him down again.

[kittykatsforever]

How are you feeling frus?
Is baby m still vomit free bring? Don't feel like you've done wrong by giving her more milk, I quite often offer more when dd is messing around comming on and off, it may be she was over eating but we only learn from that experience happening.
Lor I'd never do a dream feed personally but yes the idea is you pick them up from their sleep and give them more while they are still in a sleepy trance, personally I wouldn't want something pushed into my mouth while I was asleep though even if I liked it 😉lol
Sounds like he's getting into a better pattern on his own, mine had a 3 o'clock feed for weeks until it went later and later, I'd focus on keeping it as undisrupted as possible, only change nappy if necessary, don't put on lights, just pick him up, feed him, wind him and put him down, try not to give him alot of eye contact and keep it as uninteractive as possible , hopefully he will get the message it's not a play time and get that feed to a short 15min affair where he goes straight back to sleep,
If you want to try dream feeds though you could type it into google, I'm sure there will be a how to on there

[Lorelei353]

Thanks kitty. I'd been reading up on dream feeds this morning and decided I wasn't so sure about them. My let down is so strong, even at night, that DS sometimes chokes and gags on the milk when he's tired or sleepy when feeding. I think dream feeds would be a bit tricky for him! He's fine as he is and I reckon he'll just extend things by himself too. Usually for that 2/3 o'clock feed it's fairly speedy - up, feed and down in about 30 mins. I'm sure last night was just an off night or an adjustment.

[FrussoHathorAKADaisythecow]

lor I can't advise I'm afraid. Dd1 refused to dream feed. And the one time I tried it with dd2 it made no difference except add an extra feed in.

Ds chomped me last night. He was like suction baby. Put him on the bed, leant over him to get my phone, and he was like a piraña, he seemed to jump up and nom.

[bringonthetrumpets]

Lol frus that actually had me laughing!

Haven't done dream feeds before. Glad to hear that baby Lor is sleeping well! M has been sleeping through the night for the past two weeks w/o waking for feeds at all. She pretty much wanted to go to bed last night an hour earlier than normal....and woke up an hour earlier, but then just passed out for another 2 hrs! Managed to get in a walk (my legs are killing me today!) and a shower, so feeling pretty accomplished this morning.

M vomited again yesterday morning, but luckily I was right next to the kitchen sink and made it in time. I think she just overdoes it and gulps down whatever comes with my super forceful letdown when she's trying to nurse to sleep.

[FrussoHathorAKADaisythecow]

Nice sleeping m I'm jealous of sleep, but more because dd2 won't go to sleep, I can handle ds feeding and going back to sleep. He's pretty good. And his feeding helps me go back to sleep so everyone's a winner.

bring it was like he smelt the milk and was magnetically drawn to it. Made me squeal as he proper chomped down or rather up there's usually enough clearage.

[FrussoHathorAKADaisythecow]

I hope everyones little ones sleep well tonight.

[bringonthetrumpets]

Quiet on the thread today. Hope everyone has had a good day with the little ones and plenty of sleep tonight!

M decided to put herself down for the night at 7 Let's hope this doesn't mean we're up at a bright and shiny 5 am.

[FrussoHathorAKADaisythecow]

I'd like to say that we almost slept through. But thanks to dd2 waking at 130 and 4, I didn't.
Ds didn't feed at my first waking, despite my trying to wave a full boob in his face dream feed him. Second time I was more desperate had more luck and catch him with his mouth open.
This morning was such a relief, the side I didn't convince him to take in the night was huge and painful and I could hardly move, and poor ds could hardly latch on.

[kittykatsforever]

How did your night go bring? You may find she's just extending her nights sleep rather then the same length of time, dd is asleep by 7/7:30 most nights and is going through to 6-7 now, the worst she's done ( I say worst loosely) was last night where we struggled to get her down cycle of feed/ wind/ feed / more wind etc till 8:30/9 then she woke at 6, that's the earliest for a few nights, yesterday was 6:30 from 7:30 and the night before 7:10 from 7, it's like the earlier she goes down the longer she sleeps in her case!
Dh did a blinder yesterday, took the girls to visit his grandparents so took the bottle of milk with him, she takes it now aslong as its not her night time feed ( strange girl) and he spilt it in the side pocket of the bag, in his words though " luckily it was waterproof so I just tipped it back in!" Seriously!!! Why do I bother sterilising things? She seems to be unscathed however
Frus the piranha story was very funny

[Librarina]

Kitty that made me laugh! I cried both times DH wasted my breastmilk. In fact I know one girl who made her partner drink it so that at least someone got the goodness if that baby doesn't....he didn't waste it again!


Had a really blue day yesterday. I thought I'd better start introducing a bit more of a routine into our day instead of muddling through feeding and cuddling at will and napping in the sling/carseat at seemingly random intervals. So I read up on EASY, Eat, Actuvity, Sleep. It worked fine in the morning, but then we had to go in the car and N was awake when the list said she should be asleep, so then I fed her, and she grumbled in he car in the way home, but she should have been asleep according to the sequence, so I kept trying to soothe her, for 15 minutes, until I couldn't do it anymore and she was properly crying. S I fed her, and she was fine. But I was in bits, proper exhausted sobbing and feeling like the worst Mum in the world. Luckily DH got back just as I was weeping and talked me down but it was bloody scary. She's fine now, and I've been told to stop reding about babies and sleep for a few days.

[FrussoHathorAKADaisythecow]

lib ((hugs)) frus jnr doesn't do the EASY plan. Cars always throw them. It's like it's not a proper sleep.
He's awake and wanting to play out of sequence, he's more, sleep, feed, play, feed, play, feed,dose, feed. And random nappy changes thrown in for good measure. anyone get the impression I over feed him?

[bringonthetrumpets]

Naw, you definitely don't over feed him- if he takes it and doesn't vomit it all back up all over you then I'm sure he's fine :)

Sorry to hear about it not going well, Lib. I found EASY didn't really work well until the boys were eating solids (and even then they would still nurse to take naps). There are days where you feel like you've got it all backwards and everything that you've been doing right has gone to complete shit. Most of us are just fumbling our way through parenthood and it's all always a guessing game to be honest! You are not the worst mum in the world, quite the opposite! You are do dedicated to breastfeeding which is amazing and you've dealt with so much in the first 2 months of her life. She is a very content happy baby, just go with the flow my fellow hippy mama . Do what your instincts and your sweet babe tell you.

Yeah, she totally slept through again! So surprised. I woke her up for a quick feed before my runmore for my own benefit as jogging with rock-hard bb's really isn't fun. I have to say, waking up at 6 really isn't pleasurable, but getting to run down to the lake near my house and hearing loons and watching the fish jump, and the only obnoxious sound near me is the ducks not my kids makes it totally worth it.

[kittykatsforever]

Wow bring, you paint a gorgeous scene, I love that peace that running can provide, that spence of freedom! I really need to get myself motivated to start again. It's been so long though I know I'd have to start from scratch and be like 10 minutes!! Well done baby m, given she's the youngest on the bus she's a little marvel! I thought she would sleep through for you as her body would probably indicate the time she usually wakes to feed and they do need so much sleep really

Lib- so sorry you had a mini melt down, alot of it will be tiredness but we do put so much pressure on ourselves to do everything right! I don't follow any plan with mine in the day, kitten always sleeps better in her cot but if we have plans that day we have plans! You can try to fit them into a plan but you often find it very restricting, I love my routine at night but to a point it is restrictive as you find once they are in the habit of expecting to go up for a bath at 6 and getting to go to bed then that's what they want so if you wanted to take them out in the evening then they don't like it and get really upset, I had to leave my mil 60th bday meal early on sat as she got so upset but on the whole the pros outweigh the cons and we go out after the kids are asleep if we want to, likewise with feeding I try to follow a 3 hr plan in the day but if she wants it after 2 I give it! I think bit of structure is great but at the end of the day if you were enjoying your way before just stick with it, there's no right or wrong, give your baby a snuggle and remind yourself your a great mum, we all do the best we can x

[AGnu]

I've never heard of the EASY idea, or kitty's 7-7 training scheme. I've never really read any parenting books though! I generally feed my DC when they seem hungry & put them to bed when they seemed tired & if we're out then they just have to fit in around what's going on! I shall write my own parenting book called "It probably won't harm them"!

No update on DS2's PTT yet. The bloke in Southampton is going away for a few months so he's no help! Have heard about a possibility near my parents so just waiting to hear back about that now but not overly hopeful. London specialist charges £380 to laser it. £380 for a 2 minute op! I think I've found my new career!

[bringonthetrumpets]

Wow, agnu that is ridiculous. That sounds like the hefty medical charges we have over here! I'm still so shocked at the lack of competency you've had to deal with.

Thinking of becoming an IBCLC so other mums don't have to experience this kind of trouble with getting their breastfeeding needs met. Such a long process though. I suppose I could do it whilst working on midwifery as well.... The eternal student it will feel like....

[FrussoHathorAKADaisythecow]

agnu I shall be a firm follower of your book.

[Librarina]

Thank you for the kind words ladies, I was so sad yesterday,but feel much better today. I think a lot of it was down to tiredness but also reading too much, I should just listen to my baby and my nipples...together we are happier!

She has been pretty perfect today. I popped her in the sling and she slept for 1.5 hours in the morning and 2 hours in the afternoon. I'm usually crap at napping so I was really happy with that...hope she still sleeps tonight, I'm sure she will. She's having a grizzly period now but that's usual for this time in the evening and its only half an hour til baths time and she loves the bath!

[FrussoHathorAKADaisythecow]

lib you know your baby better than any book.

[AGnu]

Lib can I steal that as the title for my book? "Together we are happier: Listening to your baby's needs"

Bring I've been looking into how to become an IBCLC! It'd be more complicated for me since I'm not already a health professional but it'd be doable! I reckon I've covered at least a third of the subjects they insist non-professionals have qualifications in so another course or 2 & I'd be sorted! I have lots of grand plans for what I could do with my life... Then I remember how much I love being a SAHM!

I'm pretty sure the lady we saw isn't an IBCLC but I had an email today from milk-bank-lady who definitely is. I haven't yet replied to her but I'm not entirely sure why! The plan is to explain to her that we've seen her colleague but we know how difficult it can be to identify PTTs so we're thinking about getting a second opinion before we start thinking about giving up on breastfeeding & just hope she offers to have a look at him. I feel a bit funny about asking her outright to check given that she shares an office with the lady we saw! My friends' little boy had a tongue tie cut by MBL & said she was great so that's encouraging!
I just can't quite bring myself to write the email though. I think I'm just feeling worn down by it all & being away for a few days I've managed to get out of the reality of the situation & am beginning to wonder if it's really such a big deal... & then I remember I've not fed him from one side for ages & need to express again! My mum just rolls her eyes when I mention it & clearly thinks I'm just being silly! She's not said anything but I can tell what she's thinking!
I just feel really torn at the moment. I just want a break from thinking about it but then I know the sooner we get it sorted the better! Part of me just wants to ask DH to deal with it but he's insanely busy at work right now & I can't be 100% sure he'd communicate exactly what my concerns are. He has a habit of saying things like "my wife thinks that..." which really bugs me because it feels like he's putting it all on me, rather than us facing it together. I know he doesn't mean it like that though. I'm just a bit sensitive at the moment! I'll feel so stupid if I am wrong!
Saw DFSis yesterday who gave up bf-ing both of hers after about 5 minutes & DSIL who gave up after a couple of weeks. DFSis commented that it's really weird how some women have huge problems bf-ing & other women just take to it. She then asked me if it "has always been so easy" for me! I didn't really know how to respond without unintentionally implying that they didn't fight hard enough! DSIL said that 'they' talk a lot about the benefits of breastfeeding but formula has benefits too... Like being able to leave the baby for a while or go out somewhere... I nearly pointed out that I had a bottle in the fridge for DS2 so anyone could feed him & if we were out then I didn't need to worry about cleaning bottles or lugging all the stuff around! I just bit my tongue. I'm quite used to doing that around DSIL. When I announced my pregnancy with DS1 the first thing she said was that I couldn't eat raspberries.

Sorry for the long waffle! I guess being away from DH & around people who clearly don't understand why it's important to me is making me feel a little lonely. Which is an odd feeling when you don't get 5s alone in a room unless you stay up until midnight!

[Lorelei353]

lib I like the sound of your book! I think I've been doing too much reading too. It's so easy as a first timer to doubt yourself and try to read up on things to try and get it 'right'.

That said with no intervention or 'training' on my part DS last night went down to sleep really easily just after 8 and stayed down until 3, then fed, back down by 3.45 and slept through to 6.30. Amazing!

[kittykatsforever]

Lor sounds like he's doing great! He will drop that last feed in the end when he's ready, doesn't sound like you have to do anything differently

Agnu- has she contacted you about the tie or about donating?
Perhaps given that your reluctant writing it and worry you might be wrong you could phrase it like , you've seen her collegue who didn't think there was a tongue tie, however you have persisted in trying to accomplish a different latch but not of the problems have rectified and you are close to just giving up, is there anything else she can suggest or perhaps could she meet you to see if she can see if there is anything wrong with what you are doing?
I'm thinking this could get you a meet with her and when she sees him in action will be looking herself at what you think is the problem, you can always say I thought it was....... While she's looking! I'm sure if she disagrees with her collegue she won't let you both suffer ?

[FrussoHathorAKADaisythecow]

agnu I'm afraid I'm going to have to go into teacher mode with you aren't I?


agnu, from what you've put on here, you want to fight, you have done amazingly well to get to where you are. I know you're feeling run down by it all, and don't have the support that you need, but you need to write and send that email. And you need to do it now.
Just because they share an office does not mean they share views, or experience, or skill/knowledge.
Now get off MN for 5 minutes and write that email. And do not apologise for wanting a 2nd opinion.