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October 2012 babies part 2: winding, yawning and grizzling, and first smiles?

999 replies

YompingJo · 13/11/2012 05:20

Part 2: in which our babies learn to sleep through the night and make us tea in the morning

OP posts:
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smileyhappymummy · 16/11/2012 20:20

huffle big big hugs, sounds so miserable, you really have been through it. I agree with squid though, depending on what you want to do, please do bear in mind that most gps may know very little about breastfeeding - I don't think I have ever received any training on breastfeeding - I've been taught all the statistics about breastfeeding and why it's good, ive learned about diseases affecting breasts but very little about feeding and how to support and advise mums. So if, and only if, you have doubts about switching to formula, please phone a bf helpline to chat it through. If however it feels like the right thing to do then it probably is and you should ignore the above!

smileyhappymummy · 16/11/2012 20:21

Sorry huffle cross posted! Glad GP is good,sounds like you have a plan!

hufflepuffle · 16/11/2012 20:43

Thank u Smiley I agree totally. His opinion was based on fact that he has seen this before with folks who hav been thru traumatic births and hungry babies, milk supply obviously good as he growing so much but my body not able to Properly cope with demands and healing, especially the cracks. I did fight my corner and hence the plan! Tbh I am so bloody relieved the expressing worked that I can see light at end of my tunnel!!!

hufflepuffle · 16/11/2012 21:40

Express pump question ladies; how do you clean all parts? Only asking as I'm sure u were all discussing it previously and I was surprised to kno that ok not to sterilise everything on each use. Obviously, bottles sterilised but do we not need to do suction cup etc every time? Just hot soapy water it? Have sterilised everything again here anyway and DH is being very sceptical at idea of not doing so!!

Thanks in advance
X

Zara1984 · 16/11/2012 22:22

huffle on the Medela Symphony we have been changing bottles every time, but only washing & sterilising the suction cups every 3 to 4 expressions/every 8 hours (whichever is sooner). All the bits we wash in hot soapy water, rinse, then put in steriliser (Avent microwave one) with the bottles. If you were sterilising all the suction cups etc every time you'd never leave the kitchen! Confused

(((Hugs))) too generally, you've had a rough day. Please look after yourself! Make sure you put on some nice relaxing music while you express, makes it more tolerable Smile

hufflepuffle · 16/11/2012 22:59

Thank you Zara! So do you just leave the pump in between with milk residue on it? Or do u soapy water it?

Angelico · 16/11/2012 23:45

Just a quick wave peeps and big hugs to huffle and yomping. Yomping the ABs should help quickly but if they don't within a few days go back and get a different one - it seemed to be the second one I took that nailed the infection (think it was Co-amoxiclav or something similar, it was a stronger one than first). Mastitis makes everything miserable so a massive hug and IT WILL PASS I promise.

Have to say the whole BFing thing is either fab or a nightmare depending on how it's going. Was thinking about it this week and every bit of stress I have (admittedly not much compared to many of you Blush Thanks) is related to BFing. When it is working well it's quick and easy and cosy but when it's not going well (blocked ducts, waking BEFORE bean to express off gigantic boobs instead of sleeping on as she does) it's a pain, literally. Today all was well and I thought, "What is all the fuss about?!" whereas yesterday blocked duct really hurt from morning till early afternoon and once again I was having the "I will give it one more week..." conversation with friend who has been there and survived. Anyway have started taking lecithin capsules as suggested on Kellymom website for those afflicted with blockage-prone ducts so will see if they work.

Sorry not to namecheck all but it is sleepy time! And Squid with the whole self-soothing thing it seems to mean let them go into cot awake and fall asleep but they don't have to be wide awake IYSWIM - seems to work best when they are really sleepy, eyes half open or staring into space just waiting to tip over into sleep. Bean is pretty good most nights but last night when she'd had a madly exciting day she was overtired and flailing the way she did weeks ago when tiny - so out came the magic swaddle again :o

Beccus · 17/11/2012 01:52

well, after nearly 3 weeks, i have finally caught up with u lot. have found reading everyone's posts a massive support and tbh feel a little sad i'll have to find some new reading material for feeding...still havent finished birth story...that's a job for the computer, too long for one handed typing on phone. londonmrs, your birth story made me cry- reminded me a lot of my own, but your experience worse than mine, just sounded so horrofic for u, hon. zara, my bean's hr dropped during pushing and there was a bit of a panic to get her out. i found this horrible, so cannot begin to imagine how awful your cpr experience was, particularly given the stress u had with your bp at the end of your pregnancy and how worried u were about his health then. huffle, you have really been through it as well with your tear and double incontinence- i would have found that really hard - i just made it to the loo in time needing a poo and it really scared me- worried what would have happened had i been out and not in close range of toilet. things have got better for me with pelvic floor ex's, hope things have improved for u down there, too. sorry to hear u r so run down and struggling to recover. yomping, cannot believe u pushed for 5hrs! i had epidural, so never felt that sensation where u have to push, but found the 25 min i did before they got bubs out with ventouse exhausting. hope your mastitis gets better quick. so unfair to get thrush/mastitis/anything else after all we have been through. livvy, really feel for u, this thought came into my head earlier on when i was hardly sleepibg and not coping that i should take baby and jump infront of a train. it really scared me - i dont know where came from,:but was certainly a glimpse of the emotional black hole lack if sleep and hormones and difficult baby can descend u into. u sound like u have great perspective, recognising it is 1st step to solution. kyrria, u went through it as well with your pph, sounded touch and go there for a bit, very scary for u and your dh. bella, due date buddy, just cannot, cannot imagine having another dc to deal with at the moment. sending u hugs. squid, u may have had a complication free birth, but it was 30 hrs ffs, incredibly painful, traumatic enough for u to have an out of body experience and flash backs, so please dont feel u need to apologise for your reaction to it, just because 'on paper' it was 'straightforward'. will post more l8e on b/f, settling and mummy tummy dramas. good to be back x

YompingJo · 17/11/2012 02:25

Thank you everyone for your kind words. Dh took baby out for evening after a feed so I could rest, and my mum is coming to look after us today and some friends tomorrow. It's shitty timing, yesterday was first of 5 days back at work for shift-working DH. Antibiotics are doing their thing and I'm starting to feel better, and we seem to have turned a mini corner again at night, she slept for 3 hours earlier, praise be! It occurred to me that she may have been a little constipated last night - as I held her while my bowls made awful noises Blush - I guess if what I've eaten blocks me up then it would likely do the same for her. So I have pledged to be healthier and eat fruit and veg lots more.

huffle, hugs, you are going through the sit and I'm full it's admiration for your grounded attitude. You are such a good role model for your little boy. Thanks.

Angelico, you are right about bf being the source of a lot of woes. It's a but like Labour and general parenting, people said it would be hard but I didn't really believe them. Now I realize just exactly how hard it all is! Still, as my DH tells me sometimes from a safe distance nothing worth doing was ever easy.

Beccus, Well done on mammoth catch-up! Know what you mean about enjoying reading out all, but now instead of sitting reading you can post! Night feeds are the only time I ever get to post now!

Hugs to all who need them, kudos to any sling wearers and overseas travellers - both way beyond me at the moment!

Have a good night all xx

OP posts:
Zara1984 · 17/11/2012 02:36

huffle i just leave pumo with milk residue on, yes! We wrap up the suction cups (with new sterile bottles attached) in a towel between expressions.

Beccus · 17/11/2012 08:22

arse! i lost my post 2hrs ago, couldnt be arsed writing it again and just thought i had finally got baby to settle, but alas, no. so, as it"s 2 hrs since last feed, it's time to start the cycle again...just like ground hog day :-( thank god she was down for 4 hrs between.1-5.

so breastfeeding: didnt have enough colostrum, unable to remove baby from breast, desperately needing sleep so midwives gave baby formula. felt terribly guilty about having made my baby starve due to lack of colostrum, but also felt guilty she was on formula within 24 hrs of her birth. milk came in, so we were doing this ridiculous, time consuming regime of baby to breast, give expressed milk then formula top up then pump. b/f advisor has done 2 home visits and i have been to her clinic twice. she is a hairdresser by background but has been brilliant. my impression is that the mw and hv dont really give a shit if.baby is ff or bf, and i suspect they dont have the training, and they certainly dont have the time, to help us with b/f. anyway, if u want to b/f and are struggling, i would recommend the local b/f support team. fucking hormones, ridiculous to feel guilty about ff. if u cant b/f, what are u gonna do? cant let baby starve. we can no more make milk/colostrum on cue any more than we can fart on cue.

so, sleeping, yes, babiezsmay sleep 18 hrs a day (mine doesnt), butvwhyvdoes no-one tell u it is impossible to get them to sleep in their cots? i found.the article squid posted on the last thread re sleep really usefu thx squid. have pretty much given up on self settling bollocks after having tried swaddling, hot water bottle, cotton wool pads with breast milk on them, white noise, rocking cot, shhhing and patting and god knows what else. just gotta hope she falls asleep feeding and i can whAck her in after, or motion, ie magic baby hold on ball, sling or pram, and again, whack her in after she has been asleep for a bit....and of course there are times (like now), where she is wide awake and nit having a bar of it....this used to be late morning and lunch, not impressed start time us now 5am....hope it doesnt get earlier. oh, and a bath sends her off and helps her sleep for a good few hrs after. finding my vaby bjorn a god send, can do stuff when she is being a clingy velcro baby and usuallt she drops off in it.

wobbly mummy tummy: horrific, giant muffin top. how can we diet when we r up more than usual so get more hungry than usual?? clothibg is an arse, mat clothes looae but normal clothes tight :-(

WantAnOrange · 17/11/2012 08:22

DD has finally slept long enough (in my arms) for me to catch up.

We have hit the dreaded 6 weeks and it's been the hardest bit by far, coupled with guilt for leaving DD to go to college, knowing she dislikes the bottle and doesnt understand where I've gone.

The house is in such a bad state, it really gets me down, but DD will not be put down long enough to get anything done and, although he tries, DH is a bit crap at housework. I've tried putting her in the sling but how do you get stuff done while lugging that extra weight around? I cant bend down very easily in it and I cant do anything thats right in front of me (like dishes) because shes in the way!

Smorgs · 17/11/2012 08:51

It's pretty unrealistic to expect a 3 week old to conform to the Baby Whisperer's routine right? Am I just setting myself up to feel like a failure? He just wouldn't feed for long enough to get enough in last night. Then needed feeding again half an hour later. Keeps doing that frenzied shark act on the boob too, like it's some baby seal he can't quite summon up the courage to chomp down so just nibbles on it and shakes his head around while growling. Then feeds for a bit and pulls his head back with nipple still attached to mouth - ouch! He did a good stretch of sleep between midnight and 3am but then sooo hard to settle afterwards. I held him until he drifted off, put him in Moses basket, got back into bed, 3 seconds later: "waaaaa" Picked him up, settled until he was asleep etc etc.

Think some of the problem was my PILs are here at the moment and DH seems to think this is a holiday for them and we need to entertain them. So yesterday drove to the Pyrenees, had nice lunch, bit of a walk, visited a castle, but most of the time I had to sit in the car feeding him then put him back in the car seat (which he looks so uncomfortable in) while the others did stuff. So he spent most of the day in his car seat. Apart from the walk, I'd really rather stayed at home. They keep saying we don't have to entertain them but DH won't listen. Then turns into his stroppy teenage self and snaps at me disputing when I want to feed him. He agreed we would try this routine (which isn't really a routine, just feeding every 3 hours) but is now trying to change it to suit his plans. Grrr.

Question - for those that are, how often are you giving Infacol? And do you feel guilty about giving your baby 'medicine' so early on? I had to do three doses last night, I know that's OK but I feel so bad like I should know how to soothe my baby and not resort to drugs.

yomping you poor thing re mastitis. I'm glad you're feeling a bit better now the meds are kicking in, but still that sucks and sounds like you've had a tough time. But yay you got smiles, lucky you! Also, my dad reminded me the other day that if you think of everything our little beans have gone through in the past few weeks it is amazing what they've had to learn and cope with. It feels so long to us, but really it's such a short period of time. It kind of helped me to hear that. I don't think it matters if they spend a few hours in the bouncer, car seat is a different matter I think. Mine looks so uncomfortable and crumpled in his.

cheesymonster hello! Yes there is SO much to think about logistically. I took my parents with me to the supermarket the first time I went because I had no idea how to handle a buggy and shopping trolley. Spend the entire trip trying to spot other parents and see what they did - took their LOs into the supermarket in the car seat and balanced it sideways on the of the shopping trolley Shock Seemed to work though.

cherry I think hoods are safe, it's just as someone said they might be uncomfortable when they are down and lying on their backs.

livvy great winding tips thanks! Wonder why it's called the Tiger grip? And thanks for the socks tip too - I did put socks on him one night and he did sleep a lot better come to think of it. Re. the present the breastfeeding top is a great idea. I've found blankets are also very welcome.

squid Urgh the noises they make. Sounds like some creature coming up from the Underworld/ Dawn of the Dead. Are you still swaddling, would that help with the flailing arms? I'm so nervous about finding baby changing loos in cafes out here, nowhere seems to have them. Yesterday had to resort to kneeling on a loo floor in a restaurant - narrowly avoided dummy calamity when it fell out but luckily landed on changing mat. That thing is being clipped on whenever we're out now!

Smiley How was the first solo bedtime with two little ones?!

londonmrss I know what you mean about settling them, but Im sure its just because they associate us with milk. Often he'll root for the boob when I'm trying to settle him when he's only just come off it. Like comfort eating I spose.

zara I totally panic when I'm away from the baby! In different ways depending on who I've left him with. It's fine for the first few minutes then I suddenly remember him and wonder how he's doing/ think up all sorts of disasters that could have befallen him.

crazy God that sounds tough getting two off to sleep.

planktonette Well done on that trip, amazing lady! You're very brave. But I spose they are more portable at this age that when toddlers. Still, I feel proud to have made it to the shops and back.

huffle You have had so much to cope with, keep reminding yourself that you are doing great. It can only get easier for you, I'm not sure it could get any harder?!

beccus good to have you back! Anyone seen orenishii recently?

crazypaving · 17/11/2012 10:13

orange also suffering the grimness of 6wks here. Kudos to you for your uni work - don't know how you're doing it, seriously.

squid I may be wrong and am no expert but I think babies aren't supposed to be able to self-settle much before 3-4 months. Does that ring a bell with anyone else or am I talking bollocks?

Feeling extra tired today considering last night wasn't too bad. I guess it's just....hmm, nearly 3 years since I had an unbroken night's sleep? That's gonna catch up with a girl at some point hey.

zzz

Helps that I'm getting lots of very cheeky smiles from DS2, often at very unexpected moments! [melty heart emoticon]

Londonmrss · 17/11/2012 10:34

Huffle, when we were in the hospital with the dreaded jaundice, they told us to work out how much any baby needs by taking their weight in kilos, multiplying by 150- that's the total they need in ml.
So my baby is now 4kg...
4 x 150 = 600
We feed every 3 hours, so 600/8 = 75
So that's 75ml per feed. We usually top that up to around 80 or 90 because plenty seems to end up on her bib.
I only now bottle feed expressed at night as it's a faster way to get it in her so she doesn't have to spend an hour at the boob... plus my hubby can do it. At the same time, I express as much as she drinks to keep my supply up to her demand.
Does anyone else's baby sometimes keep demanding more to eat, then end up puking the whole lot up? My doc says it's just because she hasn't learned to recognise hunger properly. Any advice for this?

hufflepuffle · 17/11/2012 10:37

6 oz just about settled him.......! Thanks Londonmrss, I will work that out, but I do hav a monster baby... !!!!!

squidkid · 17/11/2012 13:10

Hey lovelies

So nice having boyfriend around today, hope those of you with partners who don't work the weekend are enjoying it too! Managed to go for a run this morning again and then we went to the market to buy curry ingredients and let the old ladies coo over baby in sling. I like my life. He is watching football with Jess now, so I am going to finish this coffee then have a nap. We have a mate coming for the weekend later (Jess senior, my mate who delivered baby Jess!) so looking forward to that. We'll meet her at the train station and wander home via a cafe and the christmas markets, I think.

I think I am going to cancel having a coil put in next week as post birth I just don't really care to let anyone except boyfriend near my bits for now. Do they hurt? I need to get more diligent about using condoms... though isn't exclusive breastfeeding a pretty decent contraceptive anyway? I hear such mixed claims on this... what are other people doing for contraception or am I the only idiot who actually wants to have sex right now

I was on the pill for 16 years before I got pregnant so have never really used anything else. Don't want to go back on the pill though. Doctor was meant to go through contraceptive options with me at postnatal check but said something like "you're a doctor I know, what do you want" and I said a coil and should have got her to go through the different ones because I am a doctor who treats bloody heart attacks and chest infections and knows only the very basics about gynae, but I didn't, and now I don't even know which coil I should have, and I should research it, but I have a newborn and haven't got round to it, etc etc.

those of you who are breastfeeding, are you drinking? I am having a drink a night (about 150ml wine) and ... I just can't be arsed to feel guilty about it! I missed it so much in pregnancy, I cook nice food every night and I do like a glass of wine... I do everything else "by the book"... I don't know, maybe I am just a bad selfish mum...

squidkid · 17/11/2012 13:24

huffle really glad GP is nice. 100ml in 15 mins is great! How are the poor boobs doing? Jess takes anywhere between 0.5 - 7 oz for a feed!!
angelico agree on BF alternating between being ace or horrendous on a daily basis. your bean is very clever, mine definitely needs to be fast asleep in my arms before being put down anywhere!
beccus welcome back and well done on the monster catch up! Definitely agree on local bf support team being the people to go to with problems, midwives and health visitors sometimes do the whole "breast is best" thing and sometimes thrust formula at any baby who's not doubling in weight, but either way they don't have a lot of practical help to offer
yomping really glad you've got people coming to look after you
wantanorange yeah you can only do certain household jobs with a sling...I can just about tidy, and cook, that's about it. Or eat, dropping food on baby's head. Grin
smorgs love the shark attack comment, my bubs is just like that sometimes!
I still haven't read any of those books I think they would stress me out. Perhaps someone who's read them could summarise all the useful tips, whilst leaving out the judgemental tone...
londonmrss you're doing brilliantly, am in awe... I was told the night feeds are better for establishing supply mind, so if you're struggling with that maybe something to consider? Or maybe you will throw your pump at my head for suggesting feeding in the night as well. Re: drinking too fast -don't different teats have different size holes - I think someone told me that - so a smaller one might suit you better - no experience of it myself though sorry.
crazypaving hope you manage a nap today.

Smorgs · 17/11/2012 16:16

Squid I'm having a glass of wine most nights, I don't think that makes us bad mummies. But then again I know nothing. Honestly everyone on here seems so well read or has had such great advice on everything I feel totally clueless. You're right about the books they are totally judgey in tone, but tis all I have for advice for the mo, other than you girls obv Grin

springersmum · 17/11/2012 16:31

I think a glass of wine is fine...some info from LLL which eases my conscious.
www.llli.org/faq/alcohol.html
Wine to all the mummies (it is Sat night and we've been working hard!)

smileyhappymummy · 17/11/2012 17:07

Contraception....
Exclusive breastfeeding (min 4 hrly feeds during day, 6 hrly at night, no periods, no supplemental feeding and pref no dummies and baby less than 6 months) is prob about 98% effective.
Copper coil has no hormones, works because copper is toxic to sperm and by preventing implantation. Doesnt affect cycles but can make periods heavier and longer and more painful. Mirena coil had progesterone hormone in it, prevents ovulation in lots of women, thins lining of womb and so less suitable for implantation also cervical mucus thicker so harder for sperm to get in. More effective than copper coil, overall probably less bleeding but often irregular.
Lots of other options too. I'm going to go for mirena coil but really not in the mood yet either.
Rubbish when people assume that because youre a doctor you know stuff!
On the topic of wine..... Friend of mine who is a GP (was my trainer) came to visit on Friday and among other presents brought me a bottle of wine - she drank in moderation throughout breastfeeding her three children. I think the key is moderation and being sensible!
Better go, baby has just puked on my breast.

Beccus · 17/11/2012 17:13

squid, i put muslin on baby's head when eating with her in sling to avoid filling her babygro with my crumbs :-)

hufflepuffle · 17/11/2012 17:29

Squid there were 3 ladies on my yoga class on second surprise pregnancy who pregnant while EBF. Stats good at 98% but that RL stat is mad!!!! I'd personally not risk it!!!! No chance in this house for while yet anyhow! 1 less worry!!

I had copper coil. Feckin nightmare. 3 months of contractions basically!! Should never hav got it but that was pre preg and was against some advice. Think much better tolerated after a baby.

Well done on proper catch ups ladies. We been out all day and bloody wrecked! And DH fed bubs in public with a bottle, there were nearly tears!! From both of us for opposite reasons!!!

Beeblebear · 17/11/2012 18:44

Ok so here is a good laugh for you guys...

We have a hound dog, and she howls... Well today she was out on the yard howling at something, but it want her usual howl.. Well my motherly instinct kicked in.... And i started leaking milk everywhere! Yes my dogs cry activated my let down. Yikes!

smileyhappymummy · 17/11/2012 18:52

Interestingly I think a lot of the data on BF as contraception is from less developed countries so perhaps isn't directly applicable to women in the uk? Personally it isn't a method I'd rely on if I really didn't want to get pregnant, maybe to space pregnancies but only if a positive pregnancy test would actually be ok, perhaps just sooner than planned.
beeble you have made me chuckle!
Today's achievement for me was taking both kids to a birthday party at a soft play centre and managing to brastfed there whilst simultaneously maintaining small talk with other reception / year 1 mums!