October 2011 - our happy, chatty babies!

[GroovyRach]

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understand your neuroscience perspective scheh . obviously i dont know anything about that side of things
i would agree that controlled crying is not good in a young baby in terms of remembering that no one comes if i cry- was really refering to isobel. but definately think it can be used in terms of them self settling. so instead of looking at it, like, they have no memory of what happened yesterday (although: if that were completely true, why does eva now know how to suck her thumb and does it everyday?) look at it as, they will learn how to settle themselves into sleeping. iyswim.

i loved piaget mamma the object permanance was his theory. hide a toy behind a pillow and the child will think its has just dropped out of existence, but when they look behind the pillow, they know that something still exists, even though they cant physically see it.
i secretly love freud too. complete nut job, but fascinating! ha

Sassy- sucking thumb is a procedural memory, not a cognition. They are learning how to do things.

Sorry, know I seem rude, just feel pretty crappy really and neurology and neuropsych is all I have, and I'm not even very good at that!

scheh i used to really beat myself up about not liking playing with chloe. until it dawned on me that fisher price toys are not really designed with me in mind! i love reading, so would spend hours reading to her, i liked colouring in too (find it very therapeutic) so would do that. you just have to not give yourself a hard time about stuff. im going through loads of shit now with chloe- give me kids over a pre teen anyday !- and ive made tons of mistakes. screamed at her, shoved her, said things i shouldnt have, cried to her, away from her etc. ive just got to hope that when i sit down and explain, say sorry, i love you etc that we will muggle though hopefully with both of us intact! although id love to be able to afford boarding school. im sure shed go too, bought her st clares and mallory towers book sets last christmas (all that reading paid off) and she has this rosey idea of boarding schools with their midnight feasts etc!

not rude at all. no worries x

sorry scheh might just be me being dumb, but if they are learning how to do things (procedural) isnt it cognitive that they remember how to do it the next time? or is that a really stupid question?

what i mean is, the memory that they can do something procedural is different from the cognitive memory that they have done it before. argh- confusing myself now! off to make cup of tea. babies are all asleep.

You're right that memory is a cognitive activity, I'm just not explaining myself very well. Rather than saying cognitive, I should say reasoning, and episodic memory. I'll c&p from wikipedia as my brain has pretty much died since leaving uni.... (p.s. anyone know how to have multiple pages open on a mac? I have no idea how to do it!)

not that c&p works on macs.... ffs why did dp have to get one!!!

right, I figured it all out. I R genius, obviously....

pisodic memory is the memory of autobiographical events (times, places, associated emotions, and other contextual knowledge) that can be explicitly stated. Semantic and episodic memory together make up the category of declarative memory, which is one of the two major divisions in memory. The counterpart to declarative, or explicit memory, is procedural memory, or implicit memory.[1]
Events that are recorded into episodic memory may trigger episodic learning, i.e. a change in behavior that occurs as a result of an event.[2][3] For example, a fear of dogs that follows being bitten by a dog is episodic learning.

.....

Procedural memory is memory for how to do things. Procedural memory guides the processes we perform and most frequently resides below the level of conscious awareness. When needed, procedural memories are automatically retrieved and utilized for the execution of the integrated procedures involved in both cognitive and motor skills; from tying shoes to flying an airplane to reading. Procedural memories are accessed and used without the need for conscious control or attention. Procedural memory is a type of long-term memory and, more specifically, a type of implicit memory. Procedural memory is created through "procedural learning" or, repeating a complex activity over and over again until all of the relevant neural systems work together to automatically produce the activity. Implicit procedural learning is essential to the development of any motor skill or cognitive activity.

I would go on about the brain systems, but it would bore you (and me). Basically, different parts of the brain are involved.

Oh I don't know. I'm talking crap really. You're probably right, I'm not about to go on a google scholar search, when I have important stimulating tasks like hoovering to do.

enjoy your , I'm having one as we have no food in, and I reckon tea (if it has sugar added) counts as a meal.

in fact I definitely am talking shite. It reminds me of when I would come up with some theory whilst doing my dissertation research and my lecturer would look at me like and hence why I only got a 2:2 on my diss (and 2:1 overall).

Shut up , Scheh.

oh sweetheart, only just seen your post about you being down. obviously didnt refresh, or it moved too fast. you should definately not be seeing yourself as a burden to dp's finances!!!! you are a little family (and from the few photos ive seen, a very beautiful one) he is a lucky man and he is doing his job- financing you and you are doing your job- bringing up his child and taking care of his/your home. he is not doing more or more derserving of a place in the family than you! dont EVER forget that.
christ, my dp pays for 6 of us and one child isnt biologically his and i never think im a burden or its a shame for him. he took us on,decided he wanted kids etc,. if he changes his mind he is free to go. as far as im concerned he's lucky tohave us. he made a joke the other day about how it was a shame for me (think i did something ditzy ) i replied, i know, ive got you. hehehe.
we are the special ones---- women!!!!! they are never going to do any better should be every womens mantra.
can you tell its a bit of a soap box thing for me?!

i think the problem is, that we are coming from different angles- you for neuroscience and me from psychology. for instance your description of episodic learning- the dog biting- would be called operant conditioning in psychology and is a actions have consequences learning behaviour rather than just recalling an episode from your long term memory iyswim.

think we will be boring the others by now though.

and a 2:1 is a good degree!!!!

Wow it has taken me almost an hour to catch up!

Scheh - bless dp and ds! Perhaps just try and chat to dp and explain that he loves his daddy so much for playing/baths and cuddles etc but for tears and tantrums only mummy will do. Did you get fired for being pregnant? Isn't that against the law? Are you able to get any smp from the government? I think that it can be really hard especially given your job loss that to keep a sense of yourself after babies. I've had it with both ds and the twins and have had really wobbly moments where I wonder 'who' I am now! Dp won't mind supporting his family, it doesn't matter. You'll be contributing financially later but for now your doing an even more important job!

I think I have backwards babies - my girls settle better with others than me. Ayse-Rose especially, I she is screaming, the only person she will settle with is my mum! Dh is brilliant with them. Don't get me wrong, he has his faults (falling asleep with them and not putting them down, laziness etc) but he's very good at settling the kids. Occasionally it's me they want but not often!

Re rush of love I've not had it with any. I was petrified with ds (Karahan) every time he moved I woke up dh as I was scared. Girls I was less scared but having two of them it was all go and just a constant process of feed, pass on, change etc! I do believe it comes and grows in time. But it comes quickly enough! Ds now actually makes me ache I love him so much. I'm incredibly protective of him (probably too much) and could spend my entire days hugging and kissing him (if he'd let me). The girls I have fallen for too but it feels different - k has had two more years for me to love so it's obviously so much stronger.

Oh and here's my dirty - never admit it in rl - secret. I don't miss them when I'm not with them! They've gone out with nanny and my sister for a couple of hours this afternoon and I'm loving time to myself. I'll love it when they're back and give them all squidges until they fight me off and the thought of not having them (anything bad happening etc) petrifies me but a few hours here and there I'm fine with

Now this is obviously not as highbrow as some of the things you ladies are reading but I've just finished a book called 'me before you' by jojo moyes (it's a chick flick thing but slightly different) and if any if you like that sort of thing I'd recommend getting it. Anyway I can't say what it's about without giving away the ending but I've just literally sobbed my way through the last few chapters (and I knew what was going to happen because - and yes I know it's bad) I always read the last few pages of the book once I've read chapter one! I feel quite drained now and am heading for a bath!

I've probably missed a million posts as I started this an hour ago then got distracted by the book keeper and having to go through all the accounts

Hi all, just checking in, not been online for a few days and still catching up with posts. Hope everyone is doing OK. W cried actual tears for the first time yesterday it made him look so sad. Got to go make up bottles will catch up properly later.

So my post about chick lit just made me look a complete dunce compared to your more scholarly conversation

sch if ur not getting smp, are you claiming maternity allowence?? As long as you have paid enough tax through your previous work, you can claim it! I left one of my jobs in June last year (only short term contract) so technically just now I oh work 7 hrs per wk, so didn't qualify for smp, but maternity allowance. Please look into it!!

All the neuroscience/psychology talk has made me go cross-eyed
Taken me a while to catch up on the thread!............

Yep am bf scheh. M still wakes up once during the night for a feed (between 2.30 and 4am) but he was waking up even when we gave him a dream feed. Perhaps I?m being impatient though (and last night he actually woke up at 11pm?first time he?s done that in ages).

Am irrationally excited by the fact that I?ve just found out they?ve opened a Starbucks in my city! Was open at the beginning of the month ? DH knew but didn?t tell me. I wonder how much walking with the buggy I?ll have to do to burn off a caramel frappuccino with cream? (will take me 40 mins to walk there?.)

Launch pads sounds awesome mama. Have been looking at the flylady stuff and thinking about diving in. I?m losing the battle against crap in my house.

We only seem to use our Wii for weighing ourselves! If I can I?d rather get outside for some exercise. Managed another very short run last night. I am so unfit.

I find that if DH is feeding M then I?d rather leave the room and g do something else because I end up interfering or saying ?do it like this!?.

Jnice we were just starting to plan a road trip across Canada when I got my BFP (unsurprisingly that got postponed!). I know what you mean about finding it hard to think about moving back to UK. I?ve been here for 4 and a half years and it?s home now. I love going to England (I really miss the English countryside) but after a wekk or 2 weeks I?m so ready to head back to Dutchland.
I love Mallory towers sassy!

Will give that book a go bb3. Since I got my kindle for Christmas I?ve been reading like a demon! (and there?s nothing wrong with chick-lit. I?m an English teacher and my guilty pleasure is Jilly Cooper ? when her books were good).

ff am getting MA. yes, my ex MD is an absolute evil tosspot. Made me cry hysterically, have major panic attack twice and hyperventilate badly so I almost passed out. It wasn't worth fighting against though, too much hassle.

Ive just finished pride & prejudice, am going to continue reading prayer for Owen meany, left my book in hospital so had to order it off amazon!

i loved enid blyton growing up engle st clares was my favourite and the mystery series and the magic faraway tree (when i was a wee one)

chloe is brilliant at english imo. some of her poems are just sooo good, i think where did she get that from?! she has already had a short story/poem published. it was a competition for the schools in england to send in their pupils short studies (less than 500 words) and they would be selected.

id love her to do english at uni. but being a teacher myself, id hate her to be a teacher. although she is a little miss stroppy strict madam with the twins- so maybe she'd be ok!

i have really enjoyed this convo about neuroscience/psychology - great to get the brain working again.

i have no knowledge of the academic stuff, but i think i am more on the sassy/tough love side of things. a few weeks ago i decided that it was so hard that J couldn't fall asleep without a dummy, a bottle or me that i did some sleep training. i put him in his cot and left him to cry for a couple of minutes at a time. usually if i waited a few minutes he would stop crying and settle down and fall asleep (not crying himself to sleep). i think that by teaching him that he can fall asleep by himself i am giving him independence/confidence although i know they are crazy words for a baby of 13 weeks.

after a few days of putting him down and leaving him for a couple of minutes at a time to cry he now goes down happily and i rarely have any problems because he knows that he lies in his cot and falls asleep by himself, he doesn't need anything else.

different strokes for different folks though and i know that loads of people wouldn't leave their baby to cry for a few minutes when they could give them a hug and the baby would stop crying.

dont know if this makes sense, but it does for me

Okay am now up to date on the postings and became confused re the whole neuro/psychological thing. I think it's too indepth for me, I am a very black and white person. Can we bring it back to a level I am familiar with now

Engels congratulations on the Starbucks :) - You see this level I can cope with!

Impressive sleep Scheh. Hope the horse is still safe. I understand where you are coming from though, they are expensive but more than that, time consuming. Have you started riding again yet? I am really hoping P gets in to riding but not looking forward to the outgoings :( I used to have a Thoroughbred (would love another) and an Arab x Welsh Section D (would not have one of those again, he was mad).

Jnice thanks for explaining Object Permanence that?s very interesting and it made sense

Scheh we have a Mac as our business computer, its evil and I use my Samsung laptop instead. DH LOVES his Mac though :(

I cannot imagine I will be very good at play. I think I will be the homework/make sure everyone is still alive and safe Parent and DH will be the play Parent - which is fine

I too am rubbish at play - DH definitely the 'fun' one and I am the one that makes sure everything runs relatively smoothly as I am the organised one. We get everything out the night before too. No time in the mornings!

Loving the wedding pics on FB

Interesting reading all about their little minds and how they develop. We put L down awake but only just. Sometimes she does cry a bit and that's okay but if she gets properly upset rather than grizzling we pick her up and cuddle her until she calms down.

scheh if it helps I found it a struggle when we had DD1 although for different reasons. DH seemed to cope with it all much better than I did, I found the mental adjustment of being a parent quite suffocating and it didn't come naturally as I had expected. TBH, DD scared me (I am a control freak which doesn't work well with babies!). I then got made redundant a week before I was due to go back to work So sympathies on feeling rubbish but remember you're doing a really important job. A relationship is a partnership and sometimes people contribute different things to it at different times.

Speaking of which, I have had to start work again this week which sucks but there we go. It's only from home and a few hours a day so it's not too bad. DH is working flat out at the moment getting everyone's tax return done (is accountant and bookkeeper) and his laptop broke last weekend so he had to use my Mac. Cue many curses from him

U have my sympathy fleecy I'm not due back to work till summer but I'm dreading it already hate my job!

DH does lottery but never wins more than £10. Maybe I should tell him to up his game

I love my job usually but it feels too soon this time. The downside of self employment I think!