Dec 08 Mums - Introducing our new joiners, TrudyV and Al Fresco...

[Beans33]

Hope this is ok? Thought it was subtle enough for the wider MN and not offensive!!

On scans and tests I definitely think everyone should have option. DH and I discussed it when I was pg with DS and agreed we didn't want it because of the odds - even in high risk (i.e you don't get told for definite, you get told 1:250). Actually whole thing made me realise how much more anxious I was in general back in the day, because it seemed like a major deal then, whereas this time I just thought what the hell, and might be better to know if it was more rather than less likely. Anyway theoretical. I thought they were very good at explaining it all, and making it very clear that stuff can still happen.

Trudy was talking about mindfulness - and today I had good example of how it has helped me. Was - in a completely ridiculous overemotional way I have when pg - reading about some awful thing and found myself getting really upset. But the mindfullness stuff I did prompted to think about it and separate how I was feeling (including that my shoulders were up around my ears) from what might have got me there and realised that I am very worried about losing this baby - obviously because of the miscarriages but also, and this was the thing I realised today, because of DD being ill when she was so little. Doesn't change the problem, but makes me a bit more aware of why I am feeling like I am. Which is half battle for me. That might make no sense, but I feel a lot calmer than I did, and know that there's very little I can do about what might or might not happen and I should just try to relax and be where I am.

think those two paragraphs might be contradictory. Am clearly still a nutter, but feel slightly less like one I think I'm saying

I think this is lurgie rather than pg related, but who knows. If I don't feel better tomorrow I might head off to GP. DH has just brought me jersey royals, and salt, and sour cream which is taking the edge off. Possibly indulging this pg lark...

Nolda/summer am also interested in best thomas track . DS has got slightly bored of it but DD is keen. I really like building tracks. Oh dear.

Trace - well done with P - honestly I think before 9 and her in her own bed without you caving and bringing her downstairs is a triumph. Am inspired to be similarly tough with DD. I keep giving up at the moment - especially as she's developed such a winning argumentative style. All a bit novel given she barely spoke a few months ago. Am impressed that L wants to be an archeologist. So far DS wants to dive with sharks, own a sweet shop (where our nanny will work), work in our nanny's cake shop (for £5 and all the cake he can eat - they have negotiated terms), and be a builder. I am encouraging the latter as it would be nice to have someone useful in the family given the rest of us basically talk for a living. DD wants to be a princess or an astronaut. Am a bit where she has got any princess stuff from. DH blames me for watching the wedding with her.

Jolly at clip your bust away, sounds very prime of miss jean b

Wonder how kiwi is getting on

Urbs there are many artistic outlets in motherhood and Thomas tracks are one of them. New track purchases have always been prompted by DH & I. I remember DH getting very excited when he found you could buy tracks with the same attachment on either end, so both make it both female. I have a friend whose son is a similar age to DS1 & we send each other photos of our latest track creations...if you give me your number I'll text them to you too

oh i love the prime of miss jb. having been brought up in morningside i do a nice line in 'little girrllls'. just as well i have dss i s'pose.

good news on the scan. urbane, and that mindfulness has helped. i'm not surprised you're apprehensive about this pg, and it's good you've realised what's going on (and that jersey royals are a help). i iike mine with mayo. yum.

effie has dh apologised yet?

am busy writing the guide to t and b. was supposed to be going to ibiza wedding this weekend but for various reasons it's no longer on the cards and we;re going to spend two nights in london instead to make the most of the childcare (my mum and her even more doddery sister ). just writing b;s medication and feeding schedule is exhausting. am v apprehensive about leaving him bu at least we'll only be an hour;s train journey away rather than a plane ride. still feels like a huge deal.

Holy shit! DD slept through the night, I didn't even give her the late night feed!! Can't believe it, hope it's not a one off...I was v knackered last night so potentially she did wake and cry for a bit and I didn't hear? Can't have been for long or loud though as I am not a very deep sleeper and DH didn't hear anything either. She did wake yesterday evening and cry briefly and go back to sleep, which is unheard of, so am hopeful she is learning to settle herself.

spot am sure you will have a lovely time in London. Jealous! Like you say if anything goes wrong you aren't far away but sure it will be fine.

jj hope you have had a better night, sorry I didn't see your fb post in time, DH and I were in town so we could have taken E for a bit but I assume she had conked out by the time I texted you.

DH loves making tracks too. Mine are not as good as his though. I would like to see track creations too vag!

Hurrah for child free nights Spot!!

Mahoosive hurrah for sleeping through the night well done mini lightening.

Dh got home at 7.30 grr so went and swan 50 lengths in a right old grump. Came out the pool feeling all tight but never mind exercise is exercise.

URbs lovely to hear yhr scan went ok.

Just seen JJ's messages on FB yesterday poor love. If you are lurking I can drive up to you and take her out for a wee bit. I am immune to screaching and am very adept at ignoring strangers looks of why are you not dealing with that crying child.

Trace sorry you had a crappy bedtime. I can only say you did win a little she did go tot sleep in her bed and you did it without DH.

More to say but got to dash will try agan later when the monsters are having their quiet time. I say quiet time but really its just a decible or 2 lower.

hello all, sorry about fb rant yesterday, it had just got too much :( Today looking much better, she still woke up about every 1.5 hours over night but just let her snack at the breastaraunt (c. Kiwi, I think) and she settled down fine. Rod, meet back Am also planning to take her to cranial osteopath in case there's something that makes her still so screamy, DH generally against alternative therapies but agrees that at least with babies before the skull is solid CO will actually be able to do something...

beans I saw the Reader at baby cinema with S, it was an amazing film and pretty hard hitting I thought. Not what I was expecting at all.

urbs great news about the scan and lovely to see the baby :) and that you're aiming for a December baby again The mindfulness sounds very helpful, will see if I can step back from the Rage next time E gets me there. I do have a super speedy 0-100mph acceloragion (did you see what I did there?!) which scares me a bit, and I even sometimes tell myself "You are being unreasonable, she's a baby, don't be like this" and it still doesn't help. Anger management book chapter on "keeping your cool" still unread and probably overdue by now [double ]

trace you did great to keep P up in her room - if you'd brought her downstairs that would have been more of a disruption, at least this way while you may have been up and down the stairs lots, she knows it's bed time and time to be in her room. Good work :) We often end up having to put S back in bed several times before she gets the message. Or she'll wail "need some water... I can't find Piggy...." and the best one, the other night she spent a good 5 mins saying pathetically "Piggy got all wet" DH and I were pissing ourselves downstairs.

Effie tee hee to DH's phone

so lovely to see the list with all our wonderful DCs on it. WG is your MIL still insisting on Tuppence Rosebud?!

Jam grrrr when did he get in?

SL yowza! Well done DD! :) hope your boobs are ok...

spot - didn't know you were a Morningsaide girl! hope you have a lovely break in London, the boys will be just fine.

TT - S is very keen on weeing in the potty and even did some poos the other day :) who would have thought pouring a toddler's poo into the loo would be the high point of the day... Definitely not going to try training her fully yet though, she still needs nappies but is keen to keep trying the potty. Her little friends at nursery mostly are trained so she's trying to copy.

Actually, here's a thing about nursery. They have 4 rooms - babies and up to about 1.5yr ish, Toddler 1 age 2 years, Toddler 2 age 3 years and pre-school for the oldest 3-4 years upwards. You all know my scepticism about how the kiddies all seem remarkably to be developmentally ready to move to the next room in September... S was in the baby room until last October (ie just before her 2nd birthday), got moved to Toddler 1, and then straight into Toddler 2 in March where she is the second youngest. They're now moving her and her 'cohort' into preschool in September. She's not even going to be 3. My main worry is the lack of staffing - I know they'll have to keep ratios etc, but at the moment there are usually 3 staff for the 12 children in her Toddler 2 room. When she's in preschool, it's more like 24 kids and 4 staff. I know I can hardly ask to have her kept back, but given that most of the kids she was in Toddler 1 with (keeping up here?!) are still there, and they moved her so that instead of being the biggest she was the littlest, she's going to be so much younger/less mature than the others. Am i being PFB about this?

Am rushing AGAIN as meeting FIL in Oxford, but Spot, hoping you have a magnificent time in the Smoke! Sounds great. It'll be so worth it when you get there. Re: B, I'm sure you have one but can he go in a Bumbo with his hernia? They are brill.

Effie, hope things are better with DH today.

JJ - if they haven't gone in the recycling I am going to put some of my interiors mags in the post to you to leaf through when you are feeding E, for ideas for your new house. Hope you got some help the other day and do keep shouting for it if you need it.

Trace, sorry P is being hard to get to sleep. Hope that phase ends soon! I think littles trying it on with their mothers rather than their father is vv common!

Urbs - so very pleased about the scan, and hope you feel better today. I thought everyone had those scans with the ratios. You might remember I had a CVS with DD1 as my ratio was 1:96. I just wanted to know. Pregnancy (esp this stage) is such a massively anxious time so be v kind to yourself.

WG - I didn't join another thread with DD2 (that's to say, I glanced at one, posted a couple of times, but I am too busy and they seemed like a bunch of knobs )

ZJ - your weekend sounded like it was lovely!

So, Rubes, what's the plan for a week on Monday? And are we still doing Thurs 9th June for drinks as PD suggested? I am not being a nag but I like to know in good time if I am doing things I really want to move this weekend but DP is just so busy. 'Tis driving me nuts. Right, really HAVE to go or I will miss the bus. More later as there were more things I wanted to say to people.

Hurray for sleeping through mini summer!

Hello sorry not been on for a while. Too busy shagging, you know how it is

LadyT I am still very much up for 9th June but please don't feel you have to. If there are not many of us it might not be worth you making a special trip cost & hassle-wise - we can always do another time. I'm in London anyway that day so I don't mind either way. Would be fab to see you though. urbs are you still up for it? Maybe we should rally a few more troops. Perhaps Invis could make herself vis for the evening. And Arti, Effie, wg, Rubes, Kiwi, MoM, Beans (hope I haven't missed anyone) - any chance you could make it?

JollyBear
5/12/08 Lucy Evelyn 6lb 13
24/02/11 Juliet Elizabeth 4lb 6 7 weeks early.

Beans - 2 DDs
06.12.08 - DD1 - Isabella Sarah - 6lbs 13oz
20.06.10 - DD2 - Prudence Emily - 6lbs 13oz

Nolda - 1DD, 1 DS
05.07.06 - DD - Katie Elizabeth - 9lbs 8oz
14.12.08 - DS - Edwin George - 9lbs 15oz

Traceface - 2 DDs
01.07.04 - Lucy Faith - 3lbs 2oz
11.12.08 - Phoebe Martha - 7lbs 3oz

TrudyV - 1DD, 1DS
25.03.02 - DD - Polly Sophie
30.12.08 - DS - Maximilian Richard James - 10lb 4oz

Waitinggirl - 2 DDs
25.12.08 - DD1 Rosanna (Rosie) Annelie - 7obs 10oz
24.02.11 - DD2 Georgia Emily - 7lbs 5oz

Vagolajahooli
17/08/05 - DS1- Alexander Jei Lib - 8lb 2oz
13/12/08 - DS2- Jordan Leong An - 8lb 1oz

Spotofcheerfulness - 2DSs
17/12/08 - DS1 - Thomas Dean - 7lbs 8oz
29/12/10 - DS2 - William (Billy) Dean - 8lbs 2oz

ZuleikaJambiere - 1DD
22/12/08 - Eloise Frances - 6lb7oz

DeidreBarlow
18/08/06 - DD Daisy
24/11/08 - DS Harry

Effieperrine
William Joseph Duncan 8/10/2006 7 lb 6 oz (I think! 3.3 kg)
Maximilian Daniel Charles 1/1/2009 8 lb 10 oz

Rubena
10/12/08 Benjamin Thomas Andrew 7lb 12oz
26/07/10 Alexandra Grace Olivia 6lb 14oz

Jumpjockey
1/12/08 Sarah Kirstin 7lb 3oz
14/1/11 (1 month early) Eleanor Athene 6lb 11oz

Urbanewarrior
20/01/07 Isaac William 7lbs 5 oz
29/11/08 Nancy Elizabeth 6lbs 5 oz
DC3 due 07/12/11 woo hoo

SummerLightning
25/12/08 Edmund William 6lbs 10oz
11/08/10 Helen Elizabeth 8lbs 1oz

JamInMyWellies
03/06/07 Archie James 8lbs 3oz
17/12/08 Lachlan David 9lbs 5oz

LadyThompson
25/11/08 Octavia Poppy Alice 6lbs 12oz
29/09/10 Dahlia Persephone Hope 6lbs 10oz

poisondwarf
31/3/07 Marv!n James 6lb 15
6/12/08 Nina Camille 6lb 12

Right, soz no personals as usual - up to my eyes in it at work & back-to-back guests at home.

Will try & catch up soon though!

Am v much up for 9th - but equally happy to rearrange if another time is better for others. I should be able to leave work about 6:30.

Hurrah for sleeping H summer . Fingers crossed she does it again.

just got back from drs and feel like bit of a plank - apparently i have a temperature that I hadn't really noticed (well i'd noticed that i was slightly feverish from time to time, but hadn't taken my temp). She told me off because not good for baby for its heart rate to be going up and down with mine. And was a bit that i hadn't been taking paracetamol. And my blood pressure is low, which is why I'm feeling woozy. Some sort of virus. So have strict instructions to stay in bed and treat the fever.
in the meantime have become slightly addicted to trivial pursuit on my phone, for which i'm blaming effie as i didn't know such delights existed. am not sure that my stupid ability to be competitive with myself is doing much for the heart rate but there you go.

pd at too busy shagging.

I ordered some maternity clothes from top shop and they're blurgh so will have to send back. very annoying. I gave all mine away (bar a few things I've just got back from SIL) because I was so sure we weren't having another one.....

Urbs immediately to bed you go with a trashy mag and lots of chocolate.

Am ranting again. F BP! DH stuck at work again. Am getting seriously peed off about this. He is a contractor meant to be able to walk out the door at 5.30. grrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrr Missing the gym again. My beach bod is going to be beach ball at this rate.

But lovelier news DS1 turns 4 tom How did I get a 4yr old?

Bugger me sideways, dh on call Thurs 9th. Otherwise would def have made it.
Great news SL
That's crap Jam
Feel better Urbs
Still up for the 13th Lady. Just have to work out logistics

Urbs that is lovely that you have a due date and your little bean is getting ever more wriggly . I'm a bit shocked that you didn't get the option for the test. We chose not to, as I know all too well how unreliable stats are, spending 3 days a week fudging deciphering them myself. And from friends experiences, I think even more strongly it should be an informed choice. I know 3 friends who had the test, or at least 3 who have talked about it - 2 got a high risk of Downs (1:8 I think) and spent the whole pregnancy worrying about what the future will hold and about the health of their babies, and one has sworn off having more children because of the stress. For these two their babies were healthy and fine. And then of course my other friend had her daughter with downs earlier this year, despite getting a very very low risk. Of course, if anything had been picked up it should have been the three whacking great holes in her heart, but that's a whole other rant. This sounds like I'm totally anti tests, which I'm not and I think all these peeps would have them again, it's just I think such a big bit of info to take in board needs to be an informed choice. Anyway, I digress, what matters is Urbs little wriggler - now you have a due date, can we offer big and jolly congratulations, rather than tentative ones? Sorry you're off colour, I hope you are being pampered by DH

Trace don't let the fact that DH can do bedtime better than you bother you, I know for a fact that you were loads better at breast feeding and giving birth , and I also know that there are loads of other parenting things that you have the edge on too, such as persistence. You definitely had more of that than P and it paid off the other night. Are you good cop to his bad cop by any chance? I am definitely bad cop in our house, which means bedtimes and mealtimes normally work well when I'm in charge, but DH is much the preferred playmate and the 2 of them will be absorbed in some weird and wonderful games for hours, whereas with me her attention span is about 23 seconds. Of course, I just love being the disciplinarian while DH gets the fun .

Good luck with TT Vaj, how is it going?

Spot you asked about none napping babies, do you really want to know when DD got the hang of it? When she was 2! It honestly took that long to squeeze more than about 30 minutes out of her at a time. Now she sleeps for 1.5-2 hours in an afternoon and I have no intention of letting her drop it anytime soon, that time of peace, coffee and a chance to prepare tea and vaguely tidy up is my sanity

Happy hols Beans, Deirdre and Spot

at L Jolly

Thank god for rods for backs Jump and the peace they bring. I'm pleased you enjoyed your birthday and got your soda stream. I'm not sure about your nursery dilemma, they only have 2 rooms at DDs nursery, 0-2 and 2+ (which can up to 10 yes or more in school hols). They staff according to the youngest age group and set out different age appropriate activities, but it appears DD thinks she's at least 5 and is always muscling into other stuff. I sometimes think it's maybe not the best set up, but she's happy and I don't want it any other way

Hurrah for a good nights sleep Summer, have you done the last feed yet?

Grr to your DH Jam and at Effie's DH and karma

I hope the physio works Vaj, when's the first appointment?

To add to my 4 weekends abandoning DD this month, my friend now has a spare Take That ticket for next week, which I don't think I can refuse, not least because the Pet Shop Boys are supporting and they were my favourite band in the world in the 80s. Oh well, we have 2 family holidays planned for next month so I will be wonder mum on those and overwhelm her with my attention (Summer that reminds me, TT used to stand for Take That once upon a time ...)

Right, I must post as I've been intermittently typing this for 3 days now. Hi to Rubes, Nolda, LadyT, Poison, Waiting and anyone else I may have missed

Take that is supported by the pet shop boys! Are you serious! I'm sorry to offend and TT fans but those boys must have sold their souls to the devil to achieve fame & fortune.

TT going well only one accident today but to be fair it was just after we had gotten out of the canoe and he wasn't sure where to go. He also did his first bush wee today so that was exciting. We went out for tea so I gave him the evening off and put a pull up on him. He did a poo in it which I think he may have been wanting to do as he got a bit upset when he did a little poo in his potty this morning.

Urbs please look after yourself. Lots of water and broth. You could have a light hot toddy I'm sure. Don't worry about that heart rate thing though that's a bit of old thinking. They have ruled high heart rate out as a problem unless its actually something yukky causing the high heart rate. Like a cardiac problem.

Spot your weekend away sounds nice, are you just going to hang out in old haunts?

The rec place was great today, had a great time canoeing. It also has a massive rock climbing wall so next time we'll take our rock climbing gear as DS1 is quite keen. Might have a quiet day tomorrow, then a big active weekend of cycling & canoeing. Yay.

Gosh have missed loads - blame half term Glad all cats are home safe and sound.

Urbs Hope you're resting up. Sorry to hear about the miscarriages. I had two before succesfully carrying Max and though I enjoyed the pregnancy (I like being pregnant) I subconsciously refused to believe the baby would actually be mine until he was in my arms and home. Even when I was being prepped for the emergency c-sec I couldn't comprehend that I would soon have another baby. It took me a few weeks to bond with him but these days I am absolutely head over heels with him. Have you studied mindfulness? The example you give is really interesting. I'm following the course at www.real-worldmindfulness.com/wowaa-welcome1.htm as it's free and we're experience a five year temporary funds shortage. I've also downloaded a Mindfulness Bell app for my phone which is very good for focussing the mind, but I've noticed just in the space of a couple of days that every time it goes off I am actually paying attention to what I'm doing - til I'm interrupted by the bloody bell Oh gosh and scans - I was 37 when I was pregnant with M and wasn't offered a nuchal fold scan on the NHS so we went privately in Cardiff. After two miscarriages I was taking every test I possibly could and every scan for a bit of reasurance. I turned down the triple test because any woman of my age would return a high risk result, it's too blunt an instrument for making a decision potentially that significant, but the nuchal fold we felt was a useful test. I was 31 when pregnant with DD, living in Sussex, and I had the nuchal fold on the NHS. Shrops, Hfds, Worcs and Powys just don't offer it.

Bedtime We're having fun and games at bedtime too, though tonight was the best night we've had in a week or so so I think our tactics are working. So far M hasn't slept through any night this week which is a bore.

spot hope the weekend goes well and you can relax and enjoy it.

Today's excitement was getting a yellow formica-topped table for the playroom from Freecycle, hurrah! I suspect it could be a modern classic and was telling DD all about it but she seemed strangey unimpressed and carried on dismembering loo roll inners.

DH has buggered off to the summer house with a cigar, so I'm going to join him and have a little thin girly one - happy memories of honeymoon on Sark

Hi ladies.
I've come on for a bit of an e-weep, but PD's "too busy shagging" has already make me smile
ZJ your post made me cry, when you said I can BF and give birth better than DH! I think I'm feeling so rubbish at being a mum, that I don't remember any of the stuff I can do, so you reminded me I have, or at least had, some value!
DH is out again tonight, just playing board games with his friends

I'm here! DH been away loads so in survival mode with the naughty DCs. It hasn't been terrible, actually.

I can do drinks on the 9th.

Will add my DSs to the list when not on my phone.

JJ - wanted to see if you have tried giving up dairy for a couple of weeks? I gave up dairy, gluten, eggs, soy a few weeks ago to see if it would help DS2's eczema. But in the same time his demeanor has changed completely. Rarely screams now. Might be just that he's grown out of it but you never know. I think dairy is the big culprit for colicky screaming. DS2's eczema is much better so I'm starting to add foods back in to see if it makes a difference. Had wheat tonight for the first time in 2 weeks...cheeseless pizza...yum.

Sorry to ignore more personals. You've all been very chatty and entertaining. My silence is not due to rampant marital relations I can tell you that much! Need to get to sleep as I am attempting an ambitious day out tomorrow with both boys on the train to Winchester to see a friend. Hopefully we all return without having killed one another!

Trace just saw your post. I always thought I would be as tough as nails as a parent but DS1 walks all over me. She's just testing you but when she's sad and needs cuddles I'm sure there's no one like Mum! Stressful bedtimes are the worst at the end of a long day. Is she still in a cot or is she mobile? Hope you get some rest tonight.

Trace Maybe it is a confidence thing re bedtime. P maybe senses that you find bedtime hard alone - I hate bedtime on my own! You are a great mum with lots of patience. Does Dh do anything different to you? What happens if you leave her? It is excessive hard with a house full of people I'm sure. Don't loose faith in yourself, tomorrow is another day.

Night all. Failed to get laptop out again so sorry for not doing more personals.

Trace I'm with you on the discipline thing. With ds1 if I said not to do something he stopped. DS2 just keeps doing whatever it is, so I do the count to 3 thing, he still doesn't stop so with no idea what else to do I escalate to screamy and grabby and have to physically pull him away or whatever I need to physically stop him doing whatever it is he shouldn't be doing. I'm sure really good mums have better ways or do special non screamy things. I wish I could be non screamy.

Trudy, you have a summer house? Is it far? Should you be leaving your children to smoke in it?

Dirty, dirty PD ;)

Mom that is interesting about the demeanor. Maybe I should have drunk less coffee. I often wandered if that.was why DS2 was so like he was.

Trace that sounds so hard and upsetting. When you've spent hours being patient and feel so undermined, I think you'd be justified in leaving her to it tonight tbh. I don't know your views on that sort of approach so apologies if it's absolutely not what you would ever do, but I don't have your patience so by now I would have cracked and just yelled "go to bed!" and left her to yell back! You know she's safe, warm, fed etc, it's just b*ggering about. Does she have a gate across her door? DS has had one from the first night in a bed and I dread to think of the fun and games we'd have had if he'd been able to roam free. I presume you're nowhere near us otherwise I would happily sample your rocky road meet up for a moan.

Vag have I broken an unspoken MN rule or are you teasing me?? Sadly it's not a beautiful cottage in Cornwall, it's a little building in the garden, and in our defence DH hasn't had a cigar in the six months we've been living here! Am I absolved or do I need to get in a bit more grovelling?

Interesting point though - when your DCs are asleep in the house do you/would you go into the garden or out to the garage or whatever? We have an office in the garden as well as the summer house and when DS is asleep I don't think twice about going out to the office to speak to DH, or going to the other end of the garden to empty the compost. It was the same at our last house and when DD was small at the house before that. We live in a very rural area and the house and garden are apart from other people; if I had the world walking past my front door it would feel different I'm sure.

Thanks vag - that's a relief. Am feeling loads better this morning - think because my BP has gone back to normal so I'm not as spaced.

Nice to see you Mom - hope today's trip goes ok.

How are you doing jump? Tough one on the nursery. But I suppose you'll know pretty quickly if she stops enjoying it. Only thing I would say about worrying about sticking with her little mates is that my experience of DS is that he very quickly gets used to playing with others (when classes have changed at pre-school) so it's probably better to think about what's right for her in the abstract. And there's a big difference between just 3 and 4.

ZJ sounds like you have to go to Take That . Where are you going on holiday? 2 holidays in a month sounds brilliant. Am counting weeks until ours.

Vag I would love photos of track . Will pm you and summer my phone number.

Trudy nice work with the cigars in the summer house - very Blandings castle. It's our wedding anniversary today and DH bought me a PG Wodehouse story so have been giggling in bed. DD has just come to jump on me dressed as an astronaut shouting "my in space". And it's only 7am.

Trace - am sorry you had a tough time with P yesterday. Sounds pretty normal 2 year old monkey-ness to me. And typically infuriating that she did what someone else asked. I just wanted to reassure you that I don't think you should read too much into it to be honest - I regularly have to manhandle DD into her car seat or buggy. If she's really bad, and I can, I sometimes try to distract or ignore her so it's less a battle of wills. Our DD is incredibly stubborn - as am I - so I try to avoid those direct clashes. Is it worth looking at how to talk again? I haven't used it as much with DD, but it really worked with DS to say things like "I know isn't it dreadful that you have to do x or y" while still doing it. So I should probably dig it out. I know I am a lazy slattern towards the laid back end of the scale but when DD really isn't cooperating at all with going to sleep we do let her come down because eventually I get really resentful of spending the entire evening trying to settle her. So she comes down, we pretty much ignore her and then take her back up. It doesn't seem to make that much difference, in that having let her come down occasionally she is going to bed ok at the moment. We are deliberately trying to run the legs of her during the day though so she's tired. We've also found audiobooks helpful - our two (they share a room) will happily lie in bed listening to charlie and lola or whatever. Anyway - random blah. I just don't want you to think you're the only one with a non-compliant two year old . I remember from DS it got a lot easier once he was a bit older and you could explain consequences more. Has also worked for us to have pancakes for breakfast as a treat if they've gone to bed well and stayed in their bed all night - takes 10 minutes to make and I try to vary what they eat for breakfast anyway. DD has just started to clock that it's related to how she has been the night before. The other thing I would say is do come on here, or phone one of your other friends. You're such a lovely person I'm sure any of them would rather you spoke to them than were worried or unhappy.

Sorry have gone on a bit . Is lovely and sunny here today so am going to go in garden later if I feel a bit better rather than clean the smeary handprints from our bedroom windows that are being beautifully highlighted by said sun. Slattern, as I said.

Sorry trudy x-posted with you at buggering off to cornwall for a cigar. I leave the DCs in the house with the back door open when I am in the garden - (which is one of those long strips behind terraced houses) and we live in deepest darkest inner city. I think vag was teasing