Totally's postgrads - you know who you are.

[Meita]

Totally's original thread was for TTC after MC. It continued long after Totally herself graduated, and is still going strong. Totally's grads was set up as a thread for pregnancy post MC - i.e. anyone who graduated from Totally's thread and anyone else who had experienced MC and was now pregnant. It, too, is still going strong.

Now, more and more of us have graduated from Totally's grads - including LouiseSH, whose Georgie was born asleep. I suppose that makes us postgrads. We have travelled together for a long time and would like to stay in touch, but the pregnancy post MC thread is starting to get very big, and I think it should be allowed to keep its focus on pregnancy post MC. May it be as wonderful a place for support for current "members" as it was for us.

So this thread is a place for us to keep in touch, share experiences, and provide support.

(This is the first time ever I'm starting a thread - hope it works out...)

Gilda thanks.Yes they are a fab bunch on the "mature" ttc thread!!! Although i am the youngest!!!! I m so so as to be expected.Sometimes everything is managable and i can reason why Georgie is not here but then like last night i had a nightmare about returning to work and there being no Georgie woke up upset then BANG its all real.

Sometimes im not bothered seeing women with babies other time i hATE them all.I ve detachted myself from 2 ex friends who are pg or had babies since Georgie.

We are booking trips in this country to make time go quicker [not bothered about going abroad anymore] but in limbo awaiting bfp.My life seems to be 1 big waiting game.

Hope you re ok ? Hope you re enjoying motherhood? Take care XXX

I don't think I can keep this constant feeding up much longer. I'm so tired. People keep saying it gets better but noone gives a timescale. How long does the endless wailing/feeding cycle go on?

Oh Toomt big hug, mug of hot chocolate and a cookie for you.

Do you have any support groups near home where you can get advice / moral support? I'm going to my local breastfeeding group on Monday to ask for help with this one. I think he's taking in air when feeding which gives him the trapped wind which makes him wail, (well it's a theory anyway), so will ask them to check his latch and see if they can see a problem. Does your DD make any gaspy noises when feeding? If there's a local group maybe you can get some advice as to whether there's a reason Jemima is crying so much, or there may be remedies like drinking fennel tea or other such things which they may suggest.

I broke all my natural medicine principles and gave Ren some Dentinox anti-colic drops tonight when the yelling went on past a half hour. It did seem to help and he has slept / been peaceful since this evening so far. Not recommending it though, seems so wrong to give a little one meds full of shit but we were dreading the nightly crying session. I feel bad about it but he does seem peaceful. Hoping the breast feeding group will come up with a better solution so we don't resort to using it again. Want to treat the cause, not the symptom.

I was googling last night and there is also a 24 hour support line for parents of crying babies if you feel at the end of your tether and want someone to talk to. Cry-sis I think it was. Will look it up for you.

Really sympathise. It breaks my heart when Ren cries uncontrollably, and it also drives me and DH mad with frustration and we snap at each other. Hope you find some solution, and IT WILL GET BETTER.

Sorry I missed your earlier post when I was posting.

Arse. Support line not 24 hour.

cry-sis.org

Cry-sis offers support for families with excessively crying, sleepless and demanding babies.

From its modest beginnings, Cry-sis has developed to become a well-respected and national charity. The stated aims remain 'to be efficient and effective in providing self-help and support to families with excessively crying, sleepless and demanding babies'. To achieve this, Cry-sis runs a national telephone helpline that is available to callers every day of the year between 9.00am and 10.00pm. Callers are referred to a trained volunteer member of Cry-sis who has had personal experience of crying or sleep problems within their own family.

Few 'teething' troubles here but nothing I can complain about in the greater scheme of things Louise, thanks.

I suspect you and I are the same vintage, just a squeak shy of the official entrance age for the other thread? Nice to be the spring chick!

UK holidays sounds like a great idea, loads of amazing places to go if you aren't looking to crack out the sarong, and no thumb twiddling or security stripping in the airport. Am really missing the sea at the mo, will hopefully be driving again soon and will be straight down to the Kent coast for a bracing stroll on the prom. Brrrrrrrrrrr lovely!!!

Toomt sorry, hope you don't think I was over reacting with the cry-sis link etc, just totally sympathise with you and am going through similar worries. Prob being paranoid now due to tiredness so am going to shut up .

Hope you are having a better night of it anyway.

TMT Poor you. It really wears you out, doesn't it?
Does Jemima feed well when she feeds? Or is it just a quick on-off thing, or does she fall asleep on the breast?
My midwife friend, who I trust implicitly, said that basically, a baby should have a good feed, until they feel sated, and then not ask for more for at least 90 minutes. Otherwise something is not quite right and there might be something else going on, not just hunger.

That said, when we were weaning Ianto of his bottles, I was constantly feeding him. He didn't take much from the breast because he was expecting the bottle, didn't get it, so wanted more after 30 minutes.
Also, we found out that with Ianto, we can't (or couldn't) quite trust the whole 'when baby is hungry he/she will let you know, he/she will drink as much as they need, etc' philosophy. We had to properly cajole Ianto into feeding. He would go on, take a few gulps, and fall asleep. Or go on, take a few gulps, and start to scream. I initially thought this must mean he wasn't hungry (but why then did he keep screaming for more?) but actually he was starving, but didn't have enough energy to feed, because he wasn't well.

Anyway, what I mean to say is, going back to the start of this post, if Jemima doesn't feed well, do you try cajoling her into having more? Like, preventing her from falling asleep, 'speed-breast-switching', keeping her on even though she is taking an extended break, feeding her naked, both of you naked, ... We had dozens of strategies and I'd be glad to share, just shout if you want to hear more. In any case, for us this led to a happier baby and less constant feeding.

As for a timeframe, I can hardly remember how it was for me! Somehow, it is just the good times that stick in my memory. All I know is that now Ianto is a bundle of joy :)

In other news, DP is out with Ianto to the local library this morning, for 'rhyme time'. First time they're out together without me (due to this refusing-the-bottle malarky we're quite tied together, Ianto and I) and I'm enjoying some time to catch up on mumsnet with the housework.

It's ironic, really. It was such hard work to wean him from the bottle and now he refuses the bottle. Now that I have stores and stores of EBM in the freezer.
Have started cooking with the milk. One reason I'm quite keen to get Ianto weaned is that it will give us some more flexibility. Mmmh, pureed broccoli with baby rice and EBM all mixed up... Ianto loves it!

Oh TMT that's so hard. I remember days and nights of cluster feeding with dd, I think that there was a latching problem and she was not getting enough - although at times she would feed and feed and then throw it all up and start again. I really, really sympathise. All i can suggest is try EVERYTHING, something should work and it does also relieve the frustration and sheer boredom of it all. The only new suggestion i will make is have you tried having a bath together/setting up a bathtime routine? Allowing her to kick about naked for a bit gives her some freedom and exercise, both out of and in the bath, to make sure she's properly hungry for the next feed. It also (presuming she enjoys it!) gives you a chance to appreiciate her at her best.

I also have a question for you lovely ladies - anyone have any experience of v low blood sugar/pressure? I kind of collapsed yesterday morning... Fortunately dh was there to take up the slack, but would appreiciate preventative suggestions for when he's on shift?!

Meita at your cooking concoctions... do you eat the leftovers [bleurgy emoticon]... You have great patience and dedication to express into a saucepan

I wrote a long post at 6am which my phone lost, and I've only just had a moment. I will try to recreate it here...

Thank you Gi1da (and now Unbuff and Meita) I feel a bit better after some sleep, but you know that point where she's been crying and feeding for hours and it just feels like you'll never sleep again!? It's the only time in the day where I get a so over emotional... my post sounds totally desperate. (That said I'll probably end up feeling the same later).

We had quite a good night, she ended up awake at 1.30, 4 and 6 but we didn't manage the basket once. Co-sleeping so wasn't part of the plan, but it seems to be the only thing that even vaguely works, although I sleep very lightly when she's there. She wasn't fooled by the hot water bottle trick unfortunately!

Had a bright green poo in the night, which I've read about and might mean she's getting too much foremilk... so maybe the constant short feeds are the problem. I am trying so hard to wake her and keep her feeding, but she falls asleep or plays with my nipple after 15 minutes or so every time.

All advice gratefully received. We haven't tried a bath together yet, or naked feeding so I'll give them a go. Please keep your top tips coming though.

Gi1da in the 7 hour wailing session we gave in and gave her some Infacol... I think in the scheme of things it's hardly a big deal, so don't beat yourself up about it, really.

louisesh UK breaks sound like a good idea, especially if it gives you a chance to relax a bit while TTC. Fingers crossed.

Anyway, yet again she's been brilliant all day, giving me 2-3 hours between feeds, so I'm gearing up for the evening craziness again. No doubt I'll be back later! Thank you everyone, please do give me advice, it's crap not having a clue what you're doing!

Glad you are feeling brighter Toomt

I find it quite astounding just how much the wailing can make you feel instantly desperate even though the rest of the day you can be totally calm. I think it's one of those evolutionary things where we are programmed to respond to the sound AS ULTIMATE PRIORITY to stop us wandering off to hunt sabre tooth tigers or start rubbing sticks together.

Had a comedy exploding poo whilst changing episode today. Quite impressive!!

Hang in there toomt you're doing fine! One trick is to slowly undress them as you're feeding to make sure they stay awake long enough. Also don't switch onto the other boob too quickly to ensure they get all the hind milk.

Morning all... Dare I admit we got 5hrs sleep? Now I'm getting used to co-sleeping it's relatively good sleep, though I vaguely remember surfacing and moving him/helping him latch on through the night.

We had a frustrating evening cluster feeding too... DH suggested we're into 3 wk growth spurt. Lower milk supply in the evening doesn't help. Toomuch I have a lazy feeder who falls asleep after 15 min or so each side. I feed rugby ball hold and express the other side simultaneously. Then after both sides like this I bottle feed the ebm which gets a bigger feed down faster. Seems to help. Weight gain started when I started doing this for at least half his feeds. Agree with Meita that they can be lacking energy to feed properly. As for how long it lasts I was told it gets much easier by 6 weeks. At ten days I was really struggling and reminding myself I was already nearly a quarter of the way through the tough bit helped a lot. We're still topping up with one formula feed a day too, in the evening to help with the nonstop cluster feeding, but this was really needs must after over a pound weightloss. Once we get back to birthweight we'll try to drop it.

Unbuffy I've had low bp and blood sugar several times, best cures seem to be eating little and often, cutting back on sweet sugar rush food and trying to stick to low GI food (so more constant energy release). Also iron if you think you may be a bit deficient? Comiserations as I know it's utterly exhausting.

Gilda with you on the exploding poo. Not so comic, all over his babygro and the sheets of my bed just as we were snuggling down to sleep after early morning feed. I was not best pleased to be changing the bed..... This morning I've wrapped him in a muslin. Fingers crossed we don't get a repeat performance!

Hi to Clareanna, not long now? Looks like there's another wave of new babies coming soon? I'm struggling to keep up with the pg thread it's moved so fast recently, but loads of new bfps and good scans is really nice to see.

Louise I do hope you're going to be one of those bfps really soon.

Waves to everyone else, I'm also a bit lacking in brain power to namecheck everyone

Yay for 5 hours' sleep! We get that sometimes - and in fact almost did last night since the little darling was awake aaaalll afternoon and evening and we had my mother around- he only stays awake and does the crying thing when there are people around, it seems! In other words, when i am busy... He is determined to stop me DOING stuff, grr. Like washing for example perhaps he likes the smell of babysick and sour milk. Ho hum.

Anyhoo, back to work

Sorry can I me, me me for a mo? I need help! My boobs have gone all

O o

One little one (usual ) and one HUGE SOLID one which hurts like heck - and is stabbingly painful in the nipple if I try to feed him from it to get rid of some of the milk.

Apart from boob ache, thought we were doing brilliantly yesterday as he was sooo good all day/evening, but the howlywails came in full force at 2.30 am instead. I ended up crying and expressing milk into a mug just to get some out after he had fed and fallen asleep on me - was not clean, just what was to hand (um, had a few remains of my hot chocolate) so just wasted a good 1.5cms of milk which seemed an awful shame. Have no experience re expressing and what I should do it into, or how to get my boobs back to usual. Not sure whether if I persevere with feeding from the engorged one, it will relieve it or encourage it to produce more milk and make it worse, and whether if I feed from the one which feels soft and empty will he starve as there's not enough milk in it, but if I don't will it give up and stop making milk?

Have been trying to do a bit of both sides but feel like it a choice of lacklustre or painful. Have renamed boobs Meh and Ouch.

What with talk of fore milk and hind milk etc I am feeling a bit overwhelmed that something I thought was obvious (stick baby on boob) is actually quite complex.

Also trying to use the terries for the first time, and am not very impressed with what I have. Wanted 50cm squares, ended up with a few 40cm which are tiny and no use apart from potentially nappy liners or possibly face cloths / dusters, and 60cms squares which when folded make a nappy so big he looks like he is wearing a crinoline, and the seams are quite bulky so when folded make a big ridge which does not look comfy at all.

All in all feeling like a failure today and a bit teary. Probably just over tired but I do feel a bit pathetic.

Any advice on boobgate?

Hope everyone is having a better day!

Alba my poo explosion was during a change - just as I was lifting up his feet to clean under his bits - DIRECT TARGET for POO JET STREAM!

At least I only had to change the towel I was changing him on and my jumper & leggings! Although my dignity, (or what shred is left after hospital birth) took another bashing!

Oh Gi1da, sorry you're having a rubbishy boob day. I don't have any advice as I haven't tried expressing yet, although I have been getting weird shooty pains for the first time today (in both though).

I think you're supposed to keep going with the painful boob. Is it hot? Or is there a lump? Hmm... I don't know anything about anything!

As for foremilk and hindmilk, how am I supposed to know how long is long enough on one boob to make sure we get hind-y? That said blimp girl Jemima has developed a double chin so I think she's ok.

DH back to work tomorrow, they've counted my labour as a day of his PL, even though he couldn't be paternal when there was no baby! But he's got his union involved so hopefully he'll get a day back. Still crap though as I'd psyched myself up for Tuesday and we'd planned to do nice things tomorrow

Wowzer at poo explosion... we had a wee leak during the enforced co-"sleeping". Not happy!

Yay and at 5 hours Alba, you give me hope! Nearly there clareanna, just a bit more cooking time to go. Sorry about the passing out Unbuff - I second the plenty to eat, and often, approach.

Velcro boob a go go at the moment, about to go have one-handed supper!

Um, poo colour... This afternoon was golden yellow, now we've just had green. Is there a scatological tao of poo I should know about?

Will go to the breastfeeding clinic tomorrow but given the many examples of daft official advice, I trust the Word of MNet more!!

Thanks Toomt . There's so much to learn isn't there. Ren has the chin thing going on too so will take comfort from that. Will go get him weighed again this week. Good luck tomorrow x

Yes and Buffs - enough with the swooning already! Look after yourself, and plenty of energy foods.

g1lda if you'd like to email me on

l c t w a l t e r s at sky dot com I can direct you to some fab sites that can help you. I can give you my phone number too via email for verbal support.

I don't moind honest, It's just a bit long winded to write here.

Very quick Hi to everyone else. There's only 7 people above me onb the other thread now, eek. :)

oh... much too much going on here for me!

so, just a word or two.

Re: poo colour. We had lots of green ones and were a bit worried. But when we mentioned it to GP (who we were seeing about something else) he said it's simply an indication of how long the food has been inside the baby before coming out again. If it all went through very quickly, it's green poo, if it went through slowly, it's yellow. Yellow is better but there is no reason to worry about green ones, said the GP. We had about half-half green and yellow until Ianto was about 3 months old, since then only yellow (and now depending on what he had to eat. Broccoli -> green, carrots -> orange )

Re: fore-/hindmilk: My lactation consultant said that this was full of misunderstandings. She said that swapping boobs didn't matter at all, it wasn't about stored milk further back in the boob or something. Rather, boob produces milk all the time while feeding, that is, both boobs do even though baby only feeds on one side - as you know if you express and feed at the same time! So, if you swap in the middle, baby will get hindmilk from the second boob, although he/she only just started on it. How true this is, I don't know, but that's what she said. Mainly, she said not to worry about fore-/hind stuff.

Gi1da with the engorged side, try not to express too much - you don't want to encourage it to get even worse. Cool it as much as you can - remember my frozen latex gloves down my bra? Particulary after feeding, and while feeding from the other side, it needs to get cold! If you want to encourage the other side, make it warm!

Unbuffy when did you last have your iron checked? Have you been taking your iron tablets? I was told that after CS you need to take them at least until your 8 week check, and then depending on your levels.

TMT regarding increasing milk production, and regarding keeping baby feeding

• keep your iron levels up
• speed breast swapping - recommended by my lactation consultant: As soon as baby appears to not be feeding well anymore, falling asleep or such - swap breast. Even if it has only been two minutes. If the same happens on the other side, swap again. And again. As long as it takes. (I did ask at this point about fore-/hindmilk and got the advice as explained above). The advantage is that when starting on a boob, the milk comes faster and stronger. Sometimes then when it slows down a bit, baby gets frustrated/too tired and stops suckling properly. So get her on the other side.
• massage baby's feet while feeding. Quite hard.
• tickle baby, underneath ear for instance.
• blow onto baby's face.
• annoy baby with cold, wet washcloth

that's all i can think of right now!

Lia a big thank you, have sent you a message (from iPod, I hope it reaches you).

Meita fascinating info, has put my mind at rest on poo and have just done speed boob swapping, got a total feed time of 15 minutes which beats usual of 5 - 10. Thank you also for reminding me about the frozen booby glove, not only a useful tip, it put a smile on my face for the first time in a long while today!

Bless you both x

Oh good, Lia's been on... I tried to post earlier for you Gilda but learned a lot of what I know from Lia so it's much better you're in touch direct!

Lia, hope seeing you on here means you're feeling better now?

Our longer and longer sleeps routine from 11.30/midnight routine seems to have switched tonight, asleep just before eleven and I'm seeing 1.30 for the first time in nearly a week. Shame. Hopefully this will only be a short feed but I'm not crossing my fingers for another long sleep tonight. Oh well, he's getting weighed later this morning, maybe he knows he needs to get as fat as possible before then?!!