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Totally's postgrads - you know who you are.

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Meita · 05/12/2010 22:10

Totally's original thread was for TTC after MC. It continued long after Totally herself graduated, and is still going strong. Totally's grads was set up as a thread for pregnancy post MC - i.e. anyone who graduated from Totally's thread and anyone else who had experienced MC and was now pregnant. It, too, is still going strong.

Now, more and more of us have graduated from Totally's grads - including LouiseSH, whose Georgie was born asleep. I suppose that makes us postgrads. We have travelled together for a long time and would like to stay in touch, but the pregnancy post MC thread is starting to get very big, and I think it should be allowed to keep its focus on pregnancy post MC. May it be as wonderful a place for support for current "members" as it was for us.

So this thread is a place for us to keep in touch, share experiences, and provide support.

(This is the first time ever I'm starting a thread - hope it works out...)

OP posts:
Are your children’s vaccines up to date?
louisesh · 22/01/2011 18:26

Thanks TMT congrats .Enjoy XXX

Hi Meita hope you re well?

Hi all .You all sound like you re doing very well XXSmile

Meita · 22/01/2011 20:53

Hi Louise, so good to see you. How are you doing these days?

Yes I'm well, thanks! I read somewhere that 4-6 months is the "golden age of babyhood" and that is certainly what it feels like at the moment. Though it makes me worry a bit about what is awaiting us...

In that sense, sending endurance- and persistence vibes to all new postgrads Wink !

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Gi1da · 24/01/2011 11:46

Sorry been awol. Have been so tired and bursting into tears for no reason. God I miss sleep. He will happily sleep on me but wakes when I put him down. Hence I tend to spend a lot of time 'relaxing' with him sparked out in my lap, but bugger all time actually sleeping.

How are you other new grads managing? Meita, good to hear there is a golden stage coming, even if that sounds like a very very long time away!

Gi1da · 24/01/2011 11:47

Ps Toomt lovely post bless you x

AlbaDeTamble · 24/01/2011 15:15

Hi Gilda, yes, tears for no reason totally normal. I was fighting back major blubbing at the end of watching Toy Story 3 with both my boys yesterday, the idea that before I knew it they'd both be taller than me and off to college was the saddest thing ever! But DS1 doing his usual why why why and I had to explain the story whilst choking back tears...

Bit down today, having thought we'd cracked feeding by the end of last week he was weighed again today and still losing Sad. only an ounce down, but now need to supplement a formula feed once a day... Feeling a bit of a failure... Hoping it's still going to improve and this is only temporary but it's sooooo frustrating. Overall loss of 1lb 2oz in his first 2 weeks is a bit scary though, he's looking quite well but I guess just need to cram those calories in now.

Ah well, we had a birth that was better than I could possibly have hoped for, I'm getting my challenge now instead...

Gi1da · 24/01/2011 18:12

Big warm comradely hug for Alba. Please don't give yourself a hard time for things you have no control over. You're doing everything you can to give your little man the best start in life, and no-one - and that includes you - can ask for anything more! Smile

toomuchteaching · 24/01/2011 21:09

Cried about 8 times today! Wowzer this motherhood thing is emotional. So I'm totally with you Gi1da and Alba. Feeding is going really well but she's having mammoth wailing sessions that I'm finding quite hard to deal with. She thrashes about, breathes fast and it's really distressing! Plus it means I just can't sleep.

Started a thread about it here www.mumsnet.com/Talk/breast_and_bottle_feeding/1133352-Windy-baby-I-think-shes-only-1-week-old but don't feel obliged to go look... although if you've got any advice on dealing with it, I'd love to hear it.

Other than that things are ok, but I'm already dreading DH going back to work next Tuesday. I just don't see how I'll ever be able to do this on my own. We tried to go for a walk this morning and didn't get out of the house til 2.30pm. Even then she cried the whole way and we had to come home. I just don't see how I'll manage without an extra pair of hands. I'll need to do the nighttime stuff so DH can sleep, the daytime stuff on my own, and then in the evening he'll have work to do. I know the school holidays will be amazing, but in term time I just can't see it being possible.

Still, apart from all my complaining, she's incredible, and I love her so much it's utterly overwhelming.

Hope you all get some rest tonight.

sparklyrainbow · 24/01/2011 21:22

Aha, found it!

Congrats toomuch, lovely names, bet she's gorgeous. Hadn't checked the other thread for a while either :) I have sympathy with the tear, I'm still sore with mine but mostly the epis I think. 4 weeks tomorrow!

Just checking in, will post properly soon as Alex appears to be waking up and squeaking... x

Meita · 24/01/2011 21:38

Alba I second what Gi1da said. It's no failure to give some formula - On the contrary, it sounds like you are doing exactly what's best for your little boy. Sometimes what's best is not what you had intended.

That said, I understand your feeling. I was so very upset when Ianto had his first bottle of formula and I thought I was going to have to give him formula all the time (It turns out that it was the first and last bottle of formula. By the time my store of expressed milk was used up, I was producing enough to top him up with bottles of expressed milk). We went to the shop to buy the powder and I filled the trolley with marshmallows, gummy bears and chocolates - I needed to 'frustration eat'. I was teary and cried lots on DP's shoulder.

They had said, at A&E where we had gone because he just kept losing weight, that I simply didn't produce enough milk and therefore had to top him up with 80ml of formula after every feed. But, in hindsight, they were right to say he was hungry and needed more food, but they were wrong to say that I "simply didn't have enough milk". The only reason my supply was low was because Ianto hadn't been feeding much. As soon as I started to express regularly (i.e. 6 times a day) my supply went back to normal. Once Ianto wasn't starving any more, he had enough energy to BF again.

The reason why I'm writing all this is because I think if you really want to, you can work towards dropping that formula feed again. It's probably what your little one needs right now, but that doesn't mean it has to be so forever.
Mind, it's bloody hard work... Unfortunately, giving formula tends to make your milk supply go even further down. So if you want to increase it, or even just keep it stable, you're going to have to work on it.
What I remember from when I was in that situation is the following:

  • Take fenugreek capsules.
  • Avoid mint and sage.
  • Drink lots!
  • Always BF before giving a bottle.
  • Express after every feed. You would get more milk in the short run from expressing just before the next feed, but that's not really productive - it just means your boy will get less from the breast.
  • Express and/or feed at least once between 2am and 5am. That's horrid but it really really helps to keep the supply up.

Ok, all that said - it might just as well be that in your situation, going to all those lengths is not the best thing to do. Not for you, as it's just too tiring, and not for everybody else either, as they need you to be functioning. The only reason I was able to do it was because DP was helping 24/7 and my mum and MIL came to help with cooking and laundry and such.

Oh, and whilst everybody keeps banging on about how exclusive BFing is best - as long as you do keep BFing, there is no harm whatsoever in having some formula in addition. On the contrary, you get the best of both worlds - you get the added vitamins and stuff from the formula, AND you get the antibodies and stuff from the breast. I believe one key reason why some people advise against mix-feeding is that once you've started on formula, your supply tends to decrease and you end up exclusively FFing. If you manage to avoid that by consciously working on keeping your supply up, there is no real problem.

(Disclaimer: I'm not against FF at all. Everybody do what suits them best. But I do understand that if someone intended to BF, having to give formula can be very distressing.)

Umm, sorry, seem to not be very good at short posts Wink

OP posts:
Meita · 24/01/2011 21:49

Awww things are taking off here! :)

TMT you WILL manage. It seems impossible at first, but you will soon grow into it. Just don't make too many plans. A good to do list, in my books, might be the following:

  • Cuddle baby.
  • Eat (lots of cake, and fruit), drink.
  • Cuddle baby some more.
  • Sleep when baby is sleeping.
  • Change nappies, dress/undress baby, feed baby.
  • If it is a good day, take a shower.

After a while, you will be able to add things like getting dressed, going for a walk, keeping on top of the dishes, perhaps even doing the laundry. And a few weeks down, you will be considering cooking dinner, and going to social events!

Grin

What I mean to say is, just take every day as it comes, and don't beat yourself up for not achieving x, y or z.

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louisesh · 24/01/2011 21:54

Glad you re all getting on well.But very sad and jealous i m not with you all.I don t fit in anywhere,so pissed off.I m back to opk,swi and all that shit when i should be enjoying Georgie and worrying about everything you all say.Don t read the other thread any more as it pisses me off everyone having their babies.When will it happen for me????? Sad

Meita · 24/01/2011 22:08

Oh and TMT about your other thread. It is so distressing when our little ones are so obviously unhappy and suffering. I feel for you!

I don't feel qualified enough to comment on your other thread (our Ianto was always a very calm baby) but if you do think her tummy is hurting, you could try different ways of holding her. My baby massage book recommends a certain position and massage. It's the 'aeroplane' position: Baby lies tummy down on your left arm, head towards your elbow, your hand between her legs. Your right arm supports your left arm.
Adjust this position by tucking baby's right leg - the one furthest from you - behind your right arm. This stretches her belly a bit.
Now swap the order of your hands, so that your right hand is directly on your baby's tummy, your left hand underneath your right. Gently massage the sides of the tummy with your thumb on one side, your fingers on the other side.
The book claims this will provide instant relief, and if you do it regularly (not just when she screams), it will have sustained positive effects on her wellbeing.

Hope this helps!

OP posts:
Meita · 24/01/2011 22:37

Oh louise :(
I wish there were a way to make it better. It's terribly, terribly unfair.
I think of you often and am looking forward to the time when you too can share the joys and pains of having a little one. Losing a baby is just so unimaginably sad.

I know someone who was carrying twins - one was stillborn, the other survived. She says it was the the best and the worst day of her life. I just can't get my head around that.

Louise you know you can always come here if and when you want to. But I do understand if sometimes it doesn't feel right. Have you had a look around the bereavement boards? The people there might be able to relate to some things better than we here can. Might be worth a try.
Sending you a virtual hug.

OP posts:
Gi1da · 25/01/2011 00:14

Louise I don't think there is one of us who doesn't look at our little one and not think of you and Georgie and shed a tear that you aren't together. Of course it is terribly unfair and sad that you aren't having the same issues and sharing experiences with us now, but you will soon, and we will be there for you then as we are now. Totally understand how hard it must be to hear talk of babies, of pregnancy and how frustrating to be back to charting and waiting. It sucks and I'm sure you are sick of being brave etc. I wish I could do anything to magic the waiting away for you. All I can say is that when you bring us the news of your bfp I will dance on the table and cheer so loud you are likely to hear it.

In the meantime, you are a grad and belong here. We all understand how hard it must be. I hope you can bear with us and be part of our journeys, as we hope to be part of yours.

I hope that makes sense, I'm often a bit clumsy in type and things never come out as well as if you can chat properly over a cuppa or glass.

Gi1da · 25/01/2011 00:34

Meita you are a marvel and a mine of information! Can I ask which baby massage book you have, sounds like a good one. I fancy trying the aeroplane move on Ren when he morphs into the big faced monster.

Toomt am also struggling to get anything done (and also teary) but Blush have not been setting the bar very high. STILL have not left the house, Ren's 2 weeks old today. Had a very productive day today though, managed to:

phone car insurance to ask what impact c-section has on policy - answer nothing at all, hoorah (not planning on zooming about, but good to know I can drive if I want / need to)

email online company about a faulty item / returns policy

email registry office re appointment to register birth (tried to phone but only answering service)

pay tv licence online

washed up lunch things

cuddle baby / be slept on / change nappies / administer boob x infinitum

Now to me that is a successful day, and it's taken a fortnight to work up to that hive of activity. I am NOT going to compare it to the level of activity I had when working and would have packed that all in while munching my lunchtime sarnie. Times they are a changing!

Oh dammit. He was totally asleep on me for the last half hour, I've put him in the cot and now he's thrashing about and I swear just flicked me the V's. Ho hum. Tiptoes away veeeery quietly...........

Gi1da · 25/01/2011 00:52

Bugger. Gave in. Ren is back on me and fast asleep. Which means I can't sleep. (Am still on the sofabed, co-sleeping not a safe option). Seems like he will only sleep lying on my chest on his front. As soon as I put him on his back in the cot it's thrash-erama (even made sure to warm his blanket by popping it in my sleeping bag first so he wouldn't notice a temperature shift!). Anyone else have cot ishoos or advice on tackling?

Big wave to Sparkly and a merry how-do to Buffy. How long are you MIL'd for? Hope it's going ok and you are getting some personal space! Smile

AlbaDeTamble · 25/01/2011 06:43

Meita you're a mine of information, thank you! I know formula not the end of the world, DS1 thrived on it, and 3 yrs ago I was very clued up on what's in which make of formula... Only a few had omega 3 back then, and prebiotics, I think most of them do now, also learned from a nutritionist you can also supplement probiotics, bifidobacterium infantis, which are in breastmilk (not always as much as there could be) but need to be kept in the fridge so not possible to be in formula... Curiously out of our NCT group I think DS1 is sick least often, so his immune system is pretty robust and he only BF'd for a week, got colostrum but never really any milk. But he was much smaller, 2.5kg so weightloss was more critical, and I had severely cracked nipples and have never known pain like it. I felt so guilty starving him, then feeding him second best food, the pro BF lobby has a lot to answer for in the guilt trip it can give hormonal new mums.
I guess I'm upset now for similar reason, also frustrated as I thought we'd been doing so much better.
But will hang in there with mixed feeding and expressing. He had to be cajoled into taking formula yesterday evening, wasn't too happy about it. And wanted boob again right after (for comfort I guess). The midwife reckons as you said, he needs a bit more energy to feed more efficiently. After another nice long feed from me, he went to sleep, and so did I, for 5 hours Shock! So missed the expressed top up I'd got ready for midnight and really annoyed I had to chuck it as it had been out of the fridge too long Angry. Chiller bag tonight to avoid that happening again... But I have a suspicion he didn't go that long without food, we're co-sleeping and I woke with his mouth very close to my boob and that side wasn't overfull and dripping like the other, so clever little chap has figured out how to feed himself Smile.

Toomt, I've read so much about feeding... It seems general consensus is not to limit feeds, if your little one wants to feed for longer, then keep on feeding. It might help? Maybe cries could be hunger? Especially when in growth spurt mode, cluster feeding (basically back to back feeds for hours) is not at all unusual. I hope it improves for you. Yelling baby is so hard.

Louise I wish we could do something to make it better, I think of you often, when I think it's all getting too much I remind myself that we're really lucky, and worrying about BF vs FF isn't really such a big deal in the greater scheme of things. So you could say that Georgie is with me keeping me sane through some of my more difficult moments. I do so hope her little sibling comes soon for you.

Gilda, co-sleeping is the only way I get to close my eyes. Can't your DH take the sofabed? Alternatively, could you sleep on a futon on the floor? Not the comfiest but better than no sleep at all.

On that note, small boy sleeping on my knee soundly enough for me to put him down on the bed, so I'm hopefully able to sleep for another hour or so.....

louisesh · 25/01/2011 10:21

Thanks Meita,Gilda and Alba.I have posted some stuff on the bereavement threads 1 was very clicky and they didn t make me feel very welcome.I now post regularly on another thread who are lovely for "mature" ladies who are ttc.Sad

louisesh · 25/01/2011 10:23

I understand what your friend means Meita 10 th October was the best and worst day of my life.X

Meita · 25/01/2011 14:40

Gi1da it's simply called Baby Massage, by Peter Walker.
www.amazon.co.uk/Massage-Essential-Childcare-Peter-Walker/dp/1904760368/ref=sr_1_2?s=books&ie=UTF8&qid=1295965793&sr=1-2

I quite like it because it recommends all kinds of techniques for specific situations, such as when your baby has a cold, colic, constipation, cough, ... (why do these things all start with a c?). Also it suggests stuff to do to encourage your baby to have a good posture, and for instance, if your baby starts to try to stand very soon, it recommends paying special attention to the hips to keep their elasticity.

It also has a general every-day massage routine, but I sort of never got round to doing that and now Ianto is probably already too wriggly!

Regarding 'mine of information' - that's what 4 months more of having a baby results in ;)

Louise I'm glad that there is a TTC thread you feel comfortable on. TTC can be a lonely and frustrating business at the best of times, it's good to have someone to share the journey with.

OP posts:
Unbuffy · 25/01/2011 15:53

I have just spent ages failing to find this thread. Then i realised i was looking in ANTEnatal clubs. Has ANYONE seen Brian?!

Louise you WILL get there, it's so hideous that you're having to go through it all over again, and you are an example to us all why the broken nights and all the other baby-related frustrations are worth it. It must be so frustrating and heart-wrenching to hhave to go through it all again from scratch, I can't imagine. I too am glad that you have found a good ttc thread, i do feel that it is difficult for us to comfort you and look after you in the way you need and deserve because none of us have been through what you have and we are all somewhat wrapped up in our new arrivals.

I really hope this comes accross as I mean it to and not as insensitive or anything, I am not too good with words at the moment. What I am trying to express is a respect for your strength and purpose and bravery, and as someone else said I too have looked at my baby and been so so sad for you.

Unbuffy · 25/01/2011 15:59

Re making sure you have enough milk for bf babies, with dd (who was a HORRENDOUS feeder) my hv suggested a large glass of water with each feed and to make sure that I had enough iron in my diet. Jamie is such a good feeder, I keep turning to dh and saying 'remember what dd was like, and this, and this...' But it IS possible in the end - i never gave her any formula (basically too lazy and then we also got snowed in so I was trapped in the house with no formula, vastly agonised split nipples (crying every feed etc) and a hungry baby) despite weight loss and nagging so there IS a way through. And if 6 weeks is a magic number, i seem to recall that at 12 weeks everything became magically much much simpler again. Hang in there ladies!

toomuchteaching · 25/01/2011 19:09

Just quickly to say Gi1da I read your nighttime post at about 2am just as Jemima had fallen asleep on me... she too does not like her basket and it's hard to get any proper sleep. I couldn't reply because of her awkward positioning!

Had a bit of a frustrating moment with DH earlier (haven't told him though, so I'm telling you instead!) Around 5 o'clock she finished a feed and dropped off so DH had her sleeping on him so that I could sleep too... after about 10mins he put her down to go to the loo. She promptly woke up and screamed and that was my sleep done. Grr... how many times have I had to need the loo for a while so that she can feed!? And he keeps on telling me that he's only catnapped through the night, when I've been awake for hours listening to him snore, sleep talk etc. and he doesn't believe me that he's had proper sleep! Sooooo frustrating! But he's being fab in so many ways, I can't complain at all.

Glad to report that constant feeding today and through the night has let to zero wailing sessions today, apart from the usual crying to get my attention. Even without the sleep I feel a bit more human today, and managed to get out for lunch with a few of my NCT group.

We talked about the lady from my group whose son died at 38 weeks and how we're all heartbroken for her, and of course I thought of you too louise. I do know that all my complaints are just nothing compared to what you're going through, and hope that you are back graduating very very soon.

I'm really enjoying the post grads thread... brilliant to keep in touch ladies and have people to give advice yet again! Thank you!

Unbuffy · 25/01/2011 22:37

Had to disappear earlier on.

Wanted to say, re screaming babbies, have you tried the 'bongo baby' position - lying accross the knees patting on the back - like bongos - would you believe it sends Himself to sleep?! Ah well.

Will gladly share milk, am mahoosively engorged again BiscuitBiscuit and have been wearing cabbage leaves today...

clareanna · 25/01/2011 23:01

hi all! Just getting excited now (17 sleeps til c section) and wanted to see how you all are and remind myself if the joys to come- thanks for the link buffy!

gi1da my ds would wake up as soon ad I put him down too- my mw recommended putting a hot water bottle in his cot to keep the sheets warm then remove it when you're putting lo down. the transition from warm mummy to cold sheets can wake them up... Worked for me, but did feel ridiculous making a newborn a hot water bottle, but as long as it worked I didn't care!

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