Blaming circumstances rather than taking some responsibility?

[Ruskins]

In light of the budget today, do we think that without trying all that much harder, some of these people complaining about their circumstances could do so much better.

www.bbc.co.uk/news/articles/cmx235r9wr3yo

Take Robert for example. He is 29 and earns £22k a year at Newcastle Airport. Still lives at home with his parents, and is single (no surprises there if he's still living at home). At minimum wage, on average that equates to 33 hours of work per week on average.

He says his getting to work costs for his 32 mile commute are £750 a month including car finance, and he pays his mum £250 for rent and food. His earnings after tax will be £1,613 per month.

Excluding the likely costs for fuel, insurance, tax, and a bit of maintenance, I’d estimate that his car finance is likely costing him around £500 per month. That’s nearly a third of his take home – batshit insane!

He desperately wants wants to move out too, yet seems (judging by the framing of the article) to blame circumstances for his poor predicament.

So what would I do if I was him?

Firstly I'd ditch the car finance and buy a cheap fuel efficient small car for £1,000 (ish), taking a small loan if needed to achieve that (£500 a month saved).

Move out from his parents (£250 month saved).

Rent a luxury 2 bed flat on the side of Newcastle nearer the airport (less commuting distance) and find someone to rent the 2nd room. Cost £750per person including all bills and council tax. Key here is that 2 bed flats are far cheaper per person than a 1 bed flat, and you get much more for your money.

His monthly costs would then be as follows:

Rent, bills, council tax: £750
Car & motoring expenses (assume living nearer airport): £300
Food (learn to cook): £250
Phone/internet: £50

Total of £1,350 so leaving him with £263 a month spare cash.

And after that he’s left living in a lovely flat in a lovely part of town. Much more viable a prospect as a potential partner I’d have thought without his parents cramping his style?

Once the above is established, I would then take on a small part time job, perhaps in a bar so he can socialise and meet people at work. 12 x hours per week, taking his working hours per week to 45 hours per week should be easily achievable and would bring in an additional £500 a month after tax.

This extra cash can be invested in training to further his skills so that he can bring much more value to the workforce and consequentially earn far more than the minimum wage job he currently has. Or he could use his extra money to start a business or invest for a deposit on his own place. Or he could just spend it and be happy.

It's really not that hard is it? Or am I the crazy one for suggesting that people should become more self reliant, and work harder to further themselves rather than sit moaning, blaming circumstance for their current dissatisfaction with life?

It's called independence and self respect, or it was when I was his age.

Quote "I'm sorry but kids still at home after around 21 and unable to support themselves very much so sound like failures."

A page ago you said this, Quote-" My DH bought our eldest daughter a 12 year old Fiat Panda two years ago when she left Uni. "

I assume your daughter does not live at home, and you do not consider her a failure ? Even though your DH bought her a car.

I have to ask. What is the reason your DH bought a car for your DD ? Because surely with your opinions on young people supporting themselves, that would potentially be pushing DD into what you consider failure territory?

He's 29 and living at home with his elderly parents, and can't get a girlfriend or boyfriend (likely because of that). That's as good a reason as any.

It isnt about being negative, it's about hedging your bets and making the most effective move that will actually push you up, not sideways.

Are they elderly?

Im used to a 30 year old from thr North East having a 50 year old parent and seeing their 70 year old grandparents every week. Great granny only died a few months ago and her mum ten years before that!

Im not sure op is trying to suggest its cheaper to leave home, but that is doable but it appears only doable if he flat shares and runs a different car model.

But if his aim is to live alone rather than just specifically not live with mum, then a flat share doesnt achieve his goal. He needs to do whatever gets him to that point first. Which might be staying at home for a bit longer but taking some of the other measures op suggests too.

My main learning point from this is how expensive rent is in my town compared to Newcastle!

My DS spent £1000 on his first car. It lasted four months and had to be scrapped, and that was a decade ago!

Any car around that price will have very high mileage and could pack in at any time. You could get lucky, but it’s a lottery.

The example I quoted was for a really nice, modern, spacious flat in a good part of town, based on sharing with 1 other. If he wants specifically to live alone then checking Newcastle rents, still perfectly possible for the same price as in my example. But because no-one to split bills with, he would just need to rent a slightly less nice flat in perhaps a slightly less desirable area. 100% doable though using the same figures as I have quoted.

I think this multigenerational living thing is more of a norm now. My eldest earns shedloads and lives with my own brother abroad and pays him some rent. They are both happy with it and eldest is saving for a deposit! If he moved out he would be paying thousands in rent, so he stays put and saves. In many ways they are smarter than we were. I lived in absolute dumps for years with flat mates who did not pull their weight whatsoever, it was disgusting. I think Gen Z does not fancy that much. I also travelled in Asia and Africa and stayed in digs for £1 a night, there is no way any of my kids would do that. Times have changed. I also partied far more than any of mine do!

I’m answering you with the negatives because my dc is currently trying to move out of home up to Newcastle for jobs and it is proving surprisingly difficult.

her dad earns pots of money and could be a guarantor but won’t. We are divorced.

i don’t earn enough money to act as guarantor (there is a minimum income requirement).

my mum her grandma offered to do it but apparently pensions don’t count.

now if you have rich parents who can guarantee it for you, no problem. The rest of the world finds it difficult.

there are companies that will act as guarantors but they are mostly for students, and we haven’t found one that will take my dc on yet.

Sure, he might win, he might loose. But with a bit of research into the right model car and what the common faults are, he could massively stack the odds in their favour. But shelling out £3k - £6k every year for a new or nearly new car on finance is a GUARANTEED loss.

Op most of us will have moved out by 18 but it’s different times, you said your dad was married by 27, I was married by 26, my sister finished school at 16 and lived in the uk (we’re Irish), studying on her own- just because some people do something doesn’t mean everyone can or should. Assuming that someone needs to live in difficult circumstances (chances are he’d be renting a shit hole for too much money to save anything really) to say they’re living is presumptuous of any of us.

You’re such a wind-up merchant. 🤣

For all the people arguing about unreliable old cars, a small new car on finance is available at under £200 a month, saving him £300.

I don't have much sympathy for someone who is working part time, has no children so no limitations on the hours they work, and wants more money. Get a second job. Or a different job where you can work more hours.

I agree he could do more - however I would suggest a different route. Clearly he can drive so use that as his upskill to transition into a job such as a bus / lorry driver with better pay and then save like mad while living with parents for a deposit on a small flat. But ultimately we don’t know his skills/ ability’s or ambition so hard to say if this is a realistic option for this person but in paper there is scope for improvement

See that aspect i do have sympathy with. Jobs arent brilliantly easy to find. A huge number are part time only.

It can be very hard to get two jobs that tessellate when employers organise shifts week to week.

We also have to be realistic that not everyone is eligible for every job. Some people have very poor qualifications for instance or disabilities that mean certain types of work arent for them.

I say this as someone who juggled 4 jobs until last year, and still didnt hit full time hours. Id have jumped at 33 hours with one employer at that point.

Quote " But shelling out £3k - £6k every year for a new or nearly new car on finance is a GUARANTEED loss."

Not all of it as you are suggesting. Because when the loan is paid, they own an asset. They own a car worth a bob or 2.

What is a guaranteed loss however is paying rent. That money is gone.

I am not into cars. But is buying a new car not a bit like buying a house ? Except he will be on the car ownership ladder instead of the housing ladder.

Your language seems as black and white (and as lacking in empathy) as your thinking, OP: children over 21 living with their parents are failures and sponging off those parents — even though it’s commonly accepted (except by you it seems!) that it’s much, much harder for this generation than it ever was for ours…
And just because your DD’s fiat panda was a great buy doesn’t mean all cheap secondhand cars are. I think it was Terry Pratchett who came up with the boots example to explain how being poor can be expensive: you can’t afford high quality boots so you buy cheaper, inferior ones that wear out quickly and have to be replaced more frequently — which ends up costing you more in the long run.

I’m not suggesting there’s nothing the guy in your example can do — but IMO, it’s rarely as easy to live/save with a MW job as those who AREN’T on MW jobs seem to think… (I think of it as the Mrs Thatcher school of thought: everyone should just pull themselves up by their bootstraps; I did it, so they can too.)

Nope, cars on PCP, which is how the vast majority of newer cars are sold today still require a large balloon payment at the end to own it. Loans are better because like you said they would own the car, but we don't know in this situation. Likelyhood is PCP given how common these schemes are, and how much easier they are to secure for someone on a low wage with poor credit history.

Renting can actually be far better for your wealth if you are young than buying. In a flat or declining property market as we have today, buying likely only makes sense if you want to stay in a location for more than 5 years, otherwise the costs probably outweigh your savings from rent. Renting allows you to be totally flexible with your career, to take better paid opportunities wherever they arise. It also doesn't tie up a huge chunk in capital (your deposit) that could be invested instead (e.g. a stocks and shares ISA, which typically generate annual returns in the region of 10%).

Don't forget that paying a mortgage in the early days is also a form of rent, as most of your payments go to the bank, in interest.

You people are so negative.
You people? Really? Which people would that be…?

People who don’t have the luxury of being bought a second hand car by their parents (or, conversely, can’t afford to buy their DC a car), as your DH did for your DD? Are those the people you mean?
(edited to correct my quote.)

People like you who always find an excuse why you can't do something, blame others for their situation, instead of finding a solution or way round the problem.

You seem to be in a different world than a young airport worker. Talking about stocks and shares and ISAs, instead of the mundane such as buying clothes, a washing machine, paying the leccy bills.

Going back a bit, why did your DH buy a car for your DD ? Was it because she could not afford a car and needed one ? Or was it so DD can buy some more stocks and shares ?

I am trying to understand where you are coming from here. You say a 21 year old not living on their own and supporting themselves is a failure. Yet it appears your DH is financially supporting your DD. And I assume if DD needs other help, then the stocks and shares you appear to own will come in handy.

Is this a case of "they should do as I say, not do as I do"? Because, of course, not everyone has parents that can buy them a car.

I mean really in what world would he be financially better off moving out and paying living costs and rent? None at all

In his current situation he has £613 a month

Yes buying a cheaper car will save money but he needs to have the £2-3k he would need for an old car ( in no universe in the world is £1k going to buy you a car that is reliable for getting to work and back)

I agree he can save money though and probably budget £250- £350 a month for car and commuting so he has money aside for the inevitably higher maintenance costs . Exactly how much though depends on petrol costs, though that is true if he lives at home or not

Anyway that means his budget at home for the first 12 months is

Rent and food and bills and council tax £250
Car & motoring expenses (assume living nearer airport): £350
Phone/internet: £50
Purchase of car £160
( monthly cost to pay back interest free loan from parents to buy car at £2k over 12 months)

Total of £810 so leaving him with £853
a month spare cash instead of the £613 he has now

After 12 months he will have closer to £963 spare each month

How is that ever worse than the £263 spare you have calculated and you haven't added in the cost of buying the car.

If his parents or friends family cant loan him the amount interests free he is pretty stuck as an interest loan will be hard to find and more expensive

But I agree after.he has paid back the car he will be much better off in 12 months and a bit better off now

He has to stay home though . Moving out would be financially much much worse. He has to save while he is at home, which he can do now with around £613 a month after bills . He probably isnt though

Getting another PT job is a good idea too if he can find it. This can be saved completely

Gosh. You’ve inferred that based on — what exactly? The fact my politics are different to yours?

Please do give me examples of all the times I gave an excuse as to why I couldn’t do something, or blamed others for my situation (about which, I’d like to remind you, you know absolutely nothing). I’d love to hear them.