Greens adopt policy treating Zionism as racism (part 2)

[Twiglets1]

Follow on from previous thread

www.mumsnet.com/talk/politics/5585462-greens-adopt-policy-treating-zionism-as-racism?page=40&reply=155235707

As the west bank and Gaza have their own government type situation and what to be separate from Israel I don't understand your point

Israel can't give people the same rights as their own citizens because they are not their own citizens. British government do not gifrench citizens the same rights as British citizens etc.

Are you suggesting a one state solution were everyone is governed by Israel because that is rather controversial to say the least and not what the pals want. Really think you should listen their voices and let the have agency over their own lives.

To add everyone that stayed on the land Israel now has was eventually absorbed into Israel. This means they became full citizens if the wished. Therefore they and their defendants are now Israelis and have full rights like everyone else. The Nakba was the biggest mistake by the Arab neighbours towards the pals. They convinced them to leave that is the catastrophe was originally named by Arabs. It is only in more since more recent years that the nakba was rewrite to be the Jews fault. You can find version statements and interviews Arabic leadership after 1948 stating just this.

I would like to point out that I brought up the concept of a just war in Christianity due to you making a general point about people using religion to justify killing, not specifically Israel.

There is no good war. War is terrible and evil and children suffer the most. But I have no idea why Israel is held to account for Hamas’s choices here. They didn’t tell Hamas to rape and murder. They didn’t tell Hamas to turn down every two state solution, spend all their money on tunnels and guns and avoid caring for or educating their country. Russia doesn’t send medical supplies to Ukraine. Israel does, even though so much of the aid funnelled through Hamas helps nobody.

It’s awful and sad and horrifying, but I have yet to see anyone suggesting a great plan for wiping out terrorists in the Middle East. How would you like to see this happening? Honestly - genuinely ready to hear valid suggestions besides Israelis marching off into the sea politely.

This is actually quite funny. The way in which he is so desperately trying not to answer the actual question. It reminds me of some posters on mumsnet, they just can't answer some very simple questions about their own views of Jews or Israel.

https://x.com/emilykschrader/status/2108847190303195359?ref_src=twsrc%5Egoogle%7Ctwcamp%5Eserp%7Ctwgr%5Etweet

The Ashkenazim would probably march into the sea politely. However the Mizrahim and the Sephardim would be less polite about it 😂

Dunno. I’m pretty angry nowadays. But maybe if my mother told me to 😂😂

Palestinian Authority leader, funded by the UK for hundreds of millions of our taxes, has once again cancelled an election in the Palestinian Territories.

President Mahmoud Abbas on Saturday decided to postpone the upcoming elections. He issued a decree calling for simultaneous presidential and legislative elections on September 11, 2027.

In a previous radio interview Zippy leader (for now) of the Greens stated that it was Israel that stopped the pals having elections.

Extraordinary. I do wonder why some people can't inform themselves.

"Commit apartheid"
Is this man for real? Does he have any idea at all of the words he's using?

He is just using the right words to gain and keep supporters. He knows just what he is doing. That is why he won't answer tbe question. His supporters won't like his answer, he has family in Israel so struggles to say it shouldn't exist.

He doesn't even understand the words. Apartheid was a system, you don't "commit" it. Does he know why his family ended up in the UK? Does he know why they changed their name to Paulden?
I didn't realise he had relatives in Israel. They must be horrified.

The teaching of Jesus says nothing about war, theology and how you choose to interpret the bible and teachings is up to you. Fact is there is no truth in any religious doctrine and it was used for centuries to justify inequality, war, slavery and treatment of women. But if you are truly religious then killing is wrong and there's no escape from it.

The only justification for war is defending yourself but there are limitations to what is acceptable.

The idea that some biblical story gives you some right to a patch of land is ridiculous. There is far too much war and the suffering is largely being felt by women and children....this can't be acceptable in 2026.

Talking of apartheid, I had to have an ironic smile at South Africa accusing Israel of genocide in a formal application filed at the ICJ on December 29, 2023.

This is South Africa, a country that has pervasive poverty, high unemployment, and social marginalisation drive severe overall crime rates, including high murder numbers and insufficient protection or impunity surrounding the killings of human rights defenders and community activists.

Anti-corruption whistleblowers face acute danger, including targeted killings, intimidation, home raids, and inadequate legal protection from the state when exposing corruption in government and state-owned enterprises.

Allegations of corruption, criminality, and political interference within state institutions have prompted presidential inquiries, reflecting a growing gap between constitutional guarantees and on-the-ground enforcement.

Around 58 to 60 murders happen every day in the country. During the April–June 2026 quarter, the South African Human Rights Commission reported that at least 569 women were killed (about six a day) and between April and June 2026, 5427 murders were recorded.

A definite case of, “physician heal thyself”

It's not just south Africa though is it, it's a host of other countries.

He doesn't need to know what the words mean or anything about tbe subject. All he needs to do for the grift to work is to use certain words when conversations are about Israel. He understands this word dropping works and that his political career depends on it. The supporters of the cause expect this from him.

He obviously knows like us all his family didn't come to tbe UK because of the Nazis like he previously claimed. However if he has ever been told or ask why they came goodness only knows. I expect he knows but didn't understand entirely which is why he lied about them coming to flee tbe war. He probably believes they were just economic migrants because it was before the war. Whereas anyone that knows Jewish history understands they were fleeing persecution and probably pogroms too.

I believe it is an auntie and cousins he has in Israel. No idea if the family are all in contact with each other but can you imagine the social occasions like weddings if they are. He must be the butt of some hilarious family jokes too. My family would roast him so badly if he was one of us.

I’m glad you agree that self defence is important. It is indeed totally unacceptable to cross over a border to murder and kidnap children.

I personally agree that the bible or Koran or Torah saying whatever is irrelevant to me. Not irrelevant to plenty of other people though which is very much the problem. Celebrating martyrdom has to stop - awful to see so many signs like that at the hate marches today.

It was the communist ones that got me. I didn't realise we were now at the stage where communist has got quite so popular and people felt proud to promote it.

They really feel very empowered to show everyone just who they are now it seems. We have communists and Islamists openly going about their hateful business, flags and signs clearly stating just who they are and what they believe. That would not have happened a few years ago. Maybe we should be glad they are easier for the average person to spot now.

I heard it live on Friday morning. Nick Robinson was fantastic, like a dog with a bone making Polanski squirm and look foolhardy.

Ironically, as gay man how would Zac fare in Gaza vs Tel Aviv?

Well....

iranwire.com/en/news/129348-160-lawyers-write-to-us-leaders-alleging-iran-bribed-south-africa/

Lots of them are just as corrupt, crime ridden and abuse human rights - but South Africa was particularly keen to make an example of, and pass judgment on Israel, when its own house is very much out of order.

Maybe this is why?

“Hamas has found a friend in South Africa. The country’s historically dominant African National Congress (ANC) political party maintains close ties with the terrorist group and provides Hamas with crucial diplomatic and political cover. This allows Hamas to raise funds and advance its ideology in Africa and beyond. All of this is compounded by the systemic corruption plaguing South Africa.“

https://www.fdd.org/analysis/hiding-in-plain-sight-a-playbook-for-combating-hamas

I believe he would get a lot of male attention in both places

Though one of them would require him to get his teeth fixed first and the other would probably fix his teeth for him using butt of a gun to the face

So if a country were, say, fairly successfully trying to exterminate all Jews, the morally correct thing to do would be to do nothing, if you, yourself are not a Jew?

I think we have a duty to stop any genocide, by all means necessary. It's called defending yourself.

Zionists are a political movement that are using religion to justify their aims. The extremists are using to use it as an excuse to steal land, kill, discriminate and it's extreme cases justify genocide.

This is a play book which we have seen used for thousands of years to commit all sorts of heinous acts. Thankfully most of us put our faith in science rather than fiction. But I'm more than happy for people to have an imaginary friend as long as they don't use it as an excuse to start wars, beat their wives, destroy their childrens sexual organs and just generally use some obscure writing to justify something that suits their opinions.