Do you want a change of leader?

[Arewethereyetarewe]

BBC are predicting the PM should stand down. I know this is not news, but why can we not have a period of stability?

Andy Burnham is much lefter in terms of policies and may not follow the manifesto Labour got in on.

Left or right the country needs a longer term plan.

What do others think?

Sadly the CX can rarely be vilified to save a PM. PM is First Lord of the Treasury, after all.

No

To be honest it doesn't make any difference if he left of centre or just centre )whatever that is ) or right of centre. It doesn't matter if it's AB, KS, Conservatives , LibDems, Greens or Reform are in charge- the same central problem exists.
You can't increase Government spending because:

1. Tax rises slow the economy
2. increasing debt is not possible as it's already at record highs
3. cutting other spending because of the backbenchers

Equally you can't cut taxes to grow the economy because:

1. You can't increase debt
2. You cannot promise to cut spending and still get elected

I'm not sure how Burnham is at making unpopular decisions either

Sam coates at sky has done a look in to the Manchester miracle. He's basically very good at going with the flow with stuff already in train

https://news.sky.com/video/sam-coates-what-would-andy-burnham-do-as-pm-13555974

The Market likes Rachel Reeves. That's why she's the Chancellor.🤷‍♀️ They see her as a safe pair of hands.

I don’t really understand why this apparent resignation and coronation of Andy Burnham is (it seems) looking on the cards other than ‘because Kier Starmer isn’t massively popular’ at the moment. That’s normal PM territory mid term.

in the UK we’ve had unpopular PMs for centuries.so what? Not everyone can be Obama and that’s OK. I’d rather have an honest and competent and legally minded PM than uncertainty, coronations and beauty contests. Trump tweeting that Starmer is on the way out is a ln absolute joke! Have you seen Trump’s own abysmal approval ratings? Is he talking about stepping down? Never. He’s so corrupt and personally benefitting from the presidency that he’ll never willingly leave. Starmer in the other hand is scrupulously honest and intelligent. We need PMs like him.

I understand the frustration about the cautious or slow decision making of Starmer or the downbeat demeanour but that’s something for Starmer to work on. We’re in a massively uncertain and complex global situation. He’s aware of the merciless response if he gets it wrong.

There are serious dangers out there- absolute lunatics in charge of key global megapowers at the same time. The world is heating up and plasticising to a very frightening degree Racism and sexism are resurgent in the UK. All of which requires urgent international cooperation. The UK economy is not growing and the cost of daily living is unaffordable for so many people. We do have to think about how global climate migration in the future which makes today’s numbers looks trivial, is going to be managed. Pulling up our drawbridges is not the right approach.

Is it time for an unelected new PM? With all that going on? No. What substantive change can they make before the inevitable GE?

This is so short termist. We need a steady ship PM, which we have got, until the shine has fully worn off off the incompetent racists from Reform. They are cocking it up all over the country in local government right now and being unsurprisingly individually taken down for their sex or violence issues that make them totally unfit for public office. But Reform need to be given time to really illustrate that dire incompetence and failure. We definitely do not need a GE right now. We need to get closer to the EU, for example.

We need calm collaborative leadership to steer us through this stormy weather. Not a change of leader just for the sake of Labour Party egos and a feverish news cycle. Honestly this heatwave will pass and then everyone’s going to wonder what the hell just happened because we now have a new PM for no real reason m. Destabilising our institutions is crazy at this juncture. I hope Starmer does the statesmanlike thing and stays on.

I don’t really understand why this apparent resignation and coronation of Andy Burnham is (it seems) looking on the cards other than ‘because Kier Starmer isn’t massively popular’ at the moment. That’s normal PM territory mid term.

It's not just that, although that is part of it.

Apparently KS doesn't discuss much with cabinet or party, and there have been proposals made (e.g. Winter Fuel) that were inevitably going to result in party opposition. The suspensions of long-standing MPs for voting against policies that were not in the manifesto was a source of much internal unhappiness.

No. I want stability. This in-fighting and back stabbing is getting worse than the tories, and they were pretty bad at it. If they can't get along with each other, why would I trust them to tun the Country? Politics is about building relationships.

I hear you but i don’t understand why coronating a new PM is the answer. Internal party management can be worked on.

For MPs who are already upset then, I think it’s going to be an even bigger shock if Burnham turn up unelected and with apparently huge encouragement to make lots of new policy quickly that’s not in the manifesto.

I don't know what people expect. Years of tory government that was just awful. Expect labour to come in and turn it around in a year. Imagine taking over a bakery only to find the previous owners have no only used up all the flour, eggs and sugar but they've destroyed the equipment, the ovens trashed and the only suppliers of anything to replace it are the old owners mates. That's what labour are dealing with.

No, it isn't. Politics is about securing enough power to get your policy through.

Thatcher didn't bother building relationships with the unions! Had a majority, put legislation through.

I think the issue is KS will not do internal party management. It can only be worked on if the person is willing to do the work!

All of that is rubbish.

It just all looks so grubby.

The Labour MPs deciding what they think the plebs should get because they know so much better than we do.

If Burnham isn't able to turn everything around, they will look very stupid.

I don’t think it’s rubbish at all. It’s a good analogy!

Every time a political party wants to change horses mid stream there should be a general election. Otherwise you may end up with a leader pushing for policies that do not chime with the ones they were elected on.

@Watercooler Your political history is woeful. What happened when Labour were defeated in 2010? Liam Byrne, outgoing Treasury secretary, wrote to the incoming Chief Secretary to the Treasury “I’m afraid there is no money”. The Conservatives came in with high borrowing and a high fiscal deficit. Nothing like now of course! The 08/09 crash had caused problems. The idea the Conservatives caused all the issues is ludicrous. There was an attempt to reduce government spending but spending didn’t stop.

We now have yoyo politics because MPs don’t agree. It’s an issue that comes with a large, inexperienced, majority. They are not all buying in to government policy and have their own agendas. The coms had similar issues over Brexit. The agitators are the ones we should be angry about. They have destabilised various prime ministers now, for various reasons. Essentially they are a bit of a rabble and only want their version of Labour. It’s nothing about what is good for the country, it’s what benefits them. They want to look good with the harder left of their constituents and are happy to ignore higher tax payers and business interests. The latter groups are the ones who pay for services and servicing our huge debt. These MPs are essentially unable to understand economic reality and now there truly is no money. We have maxed out on borrowing and need substantially more defence spending. These MPs think Andy Burnham will deliver socialist utopia! No chance if labour want to win the next election.

A steady ship?

One that is steadily changing direction every five minutes.

UK needs to develop a long term memory, for the sound of it!
I am sure you all have read the reports on Starmer and Mandelson, and Mandelson-Palantir-Starmer. So? It is clear this is Starmer's own goal. All his doing.
I cannot comprehend how him or anyone would think he can just stay after this.
So it is not that we want a change of leader, it is that Starmer sold his soul to Mandelson and Mandelson will soon be in court for sharing sensitive information with Epstein. Plus he has financial ties to Palantir.
All Starmer had to do is follow the flipping rules and stay away from Mandelson and people like Mandelson. Pretty easy, if you ask me.

I think you might very well be right. All this talk about Burnham being massively left wing is for the birds. He really isn't and never has been.

@MushMonster Loads of people trusted Mandelson! Obviously Starmer was wrong but political decisions often are. Like partying Boris Johnson! No one is perfect and Burnham won’t be either!

It’s a terrible look to resign. It’s a terrible plan to coronate and to not have a GE. And it’s a terrible time to call a GE. I can’t understand why this is even being contemplated. So what if Andy Burnham is flavour of the month? Manchester’s success is great but nobody is saying this can be replicated nationally. We won’t be allowed to borrow the equivalent needed nationally to invest so heavily in growth- which is a shame but it’s the reality.
Also growing an underinvested city which already has some good infrastructure is very different from wider crumbling Britain where small towns and villages are completely falling apart from lack of investment and lack of affordable reliable transport. Once the final salary generation of wealthy retirees die off and won’t be propping up these local economies, places like these will be even more ruined without serious government support.

Burnham’s an MP now, bring him into the cabinet, fine, see what he can do. Starmer is having his ‘come to Jesus moment’ right now, with everyone talking about a possible resignation. He will understand now that he have to work better with the squabbling factions in his party that he’s been trying to cut out, if he wants to survive as PM. That’s part of good leadership. I hope he can manage it.

But if Starmer goes, this would be the sixth PM resignation since Cameron’s, almost exactly 10 years ago after the unexpected Brexit result. (Unexpected to him, I mean because he lived in a such mega privileged and well-informed bubble. He didn’t expect it because he was doing well out of the economic status quo, whereas the Leave areas were poor and understandably pissed off)

Cameron fucked up the family bakery business to appease the extremists in his own party that he didn’t have the balls to take on, not understanding how many voting people would vote Leave just to stick two fingers up at Cameron’s economically disastrous coalition and Tory gov inflicting austerity on the UK. So then the next morning Cameron fucked off leaving us all to try to clear up the mess he’d caused due to internal party squabbling. Shameful.

Starmer is a better PM than that, I really hope. Let’s stop kidding ourselves about any possibility of an ‘orderly handover’. We’d have to have a GE. Which is terrible timing for the national interest. So Starmer needs to stay on.

Liam Byrne, outgoing Treasury secretary, wrote to the incoming Chief Secretary to the Treasury “I’m afraid there is no money”

It is somewhat hilarious that some people still think that note was serious. Or at least pretend to think so and present it as such, imagining that people on MN are too thick to know the truth of it.

I don’t want a change of leader.

Well, so then the problem is any politician trusting Mandelson and similar people. Let's get rid of them all. This is the chance.
Enough is enough.
There are plenty of honest hard working people out there. Who know what a tender is. And that they know how to use a diary for ALL of their meetings.
Oh, and that are able to disclose all the paperwork when demanded by Parliament! I forgot that one.....