Gorton and Denton, what have you done?

[Imdunfer]

You have elected as an MP to stand in the UK&NI parliament a person who said in a panel interview with Annabel Tiffin from BBC Northwest Tonight that the Manchester Arena bombing was caused by people sewing division by questioning immigration.

That statement is so outrageous I don't even know where to start.

Foreign-born voters stole by-election, Farage blasts

This is the front page headline of the Mail on Sunday.

https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-15602431/amp/Foreign-born-voters-stole-election-Farage-rising-alarm-suspected-poll-fraud-Reform-leader-British-citizens-ballot-democracy.html

Seems he is a bit upset that his candidate lost.

His argument appears to be that if Reform UK Party Ltd can’t win a by-election because the voters don’t like them then the rules need to be changed to exclude those voters. Farage is a Far Right Whinger who doesn’t like democracy.

‘Britain has always been average at best.’

There’s a lot of things you can say about Britain, but ‘always been average at best’ isn’t one of them.

He has no problem accepting donations from foreign-born people

It does come off as a poor loser, but I also get his point. I think we’ve been going this way for a while, but this election was clearly sectarian in nature. We really shouldn’t be doing political broadcasts in Urdu, I can’t put my finger on it but it just seems very sinister.

You find foreign language/culture sinister?

There's a word for that.

You’re probably looking to say racist, it’s okay get it out. You’ve probably only posted it 100 times today.

I find political broadcasts not in a nations recognised language sinister, definitely. On the surface, it’s oh look how inclusive but it’s simply sectarian campaigning and a sign of the huge problems that mass immigration is going to have in store for us. How can such large numbers of people be integrated if they can’t speak English? Crazy,

"Sectarian" has really caught on as a dogwhistle, hasn't it? I have never seen it used so much on MN.

You don't think people who don't (yet) speak English should be allowed to participate in our democracy? You think they should be denied information?

I expect you want people to integrate - to be less sectarian - but at the same time want to exclude them.

Yes, it's straight out of the Reform playbook. Laughable that they are saying the Greens are 'divisive' when they themselves are overtly hostile to big swathes of society.

It all comes across as a bit of a temper tantrum. The wheels are falling off because more and more people are realising they aren't any kind of answer to anything. British people are decent as a group, and have rejected fascism before. It's heartening to see it happening again.

wow ok, so you won't look it up for yourself?
she worked on 3 Acts of parliament -
CPTPP Trade Act, Elections Act, Post Office Act.....as secretary to the treasury she worked through the financial schemes during and after covid?
Not doing this back and forth with someone who just isn't curious to find out for themselves.

@GeneralPeter

You are right that the mechanisms of delivery are important and as I've said, I don't automatically love everything about the greens. I'm open to the idea of them getting some things wrong strategically regarding nuclear and carbon offsets etc.

However, the greens have a few years to thrash out their policies and make them more pragmatic, whereas if reform get in they have explicitly promised to scrap net zero objectives and actively expand fossil fuels. And that is terrifying and they are not going to change.

Is there another party that you think is better placed in terms of both commitment and delivery on these important issues - and also has a chance of being elected?

So what did she actually DO in those roles? Can we have specifics instead of word salad?

I listed some specifics in a response to someone else. You know, I could almost respect a reply just asking for specifics, but the accusation of word salad is hilarious. No big words or jargon used, Just basic sentences. Is that hard for you?

He has his minions on here that would vehemently dispute that. What part of that is never clear. Except Starmer and Reeves and the country is going to the dogs.

You said she worked on things. No mention of any achievements. What did she actually leave better than she found it?

If anyone else is reading this thread, I always find that actually having a look and researching these things yourself is a good way of forming your own opinion. This person doesn't want to do that. Their aim is to play some sort of gotcha rather than being genuinely interested.

Look it up yourself?

She didn't achieve any of those trade deals she promised when backing Brexit, she worked on a few MoU with US states iirc

She probably worked on the Chagos deal, the one that she now rejects, but I am not sure on that one.

If you state that your are proud of her achievement I expect you to list them, not tell me to google it.

And don’t forget that they’ve said they would like for there to be no borders and for everyone who moves here to have a house to live in - there’s already a housing shortage so that will mean building loads of houses all over the beautiful British countryside - including land which is used for farming and food production. Which will inevitably mean having to IMPORT more food. Not very environmentally friendly ehh? But then they are only the Green Party by name so I guess it doesn’t really matter 🤷‍♀️

Im genuinely curious how it’s sectarian in your view? Muslims in this constituency chose not to vote for the candidate representing a party that has said they would remove ILR and have at least hinted at repatriation of non-citizens. It seems entirely sensible for people who would be negatively affected by Reform policies, or Labour’s reform lite policies, to vote against them. Instead they, along with voters of other faiths and ethnicities, voted for a white woman, representing a party led by a gay Jewish man. How is that sectarian?

And as for political materials in other languages - how do expect people to integrate if we ignore the barriers? Politics should meet people where they are and support and encourage them to engage in the community. Make political materials in Urdu for people that don’t speak English and also to show a sense of solidarity and relatability with people who feel marginalised - who by and large will be women and older people. If you include those people, you make it more possible for them to integrate, which is economically and socially desirable. It just seems so obvious to me.

I find that if people confidently assert that a particular politician is competent and capable they’re usually able to trot out examples of their accomplishments to back themselves up. I already have an opinion of Badenoch and I’m very interested in why yours is so different.

The Greens have rejected the "open borders" label as a pragmatic approach, instead advocating for a "managed" humane, and safe immigration system that supports refugees and allows for controlled movement

They want to focus on safe routes, ending detention, and tackling root causes of migration, opposing the "far right" rhetoric

I mean maybe you prefer that people shout at hotels?

if I state I am 'proud of her achievements' ?
I said she 'got shit done'
2 of you asked what she 'did'
I said what she did/worked on.
then there was a pivot to a debate re opinions about whether any of the things she did was an improvement and whether I was 'proud'.
I don't want to engage with disingenuous people. Have a good evening.

Oh i did look. I haven’t found much. Which you sort of back up by saying she did loads but not giving a single example of something she lead on.