Is it possible that Mandelson might bring Starmer down?

[CurlewKate]

?

Of course tax policy drives human behavior but when the stats show that schools closed at similar levels long before Labour came in to power, then VAT on schools isn't an example of this.

Funnily enough, the total number of schools has increased slightly.

On Nom Doms, yes you can see that but then people who are highly mobile, can avoid tax in anycase & the UK tax system is more generous in this respect than the USA one.

"On Nom Doms, yes you can see that but then people who are highly mobile, can avoid tax in anycase".

Yes you can see that is happening. So we now don't get any of their tax at all as they have moved in their highly mobile way.. Well done Rachel.

My point is that Labour have and are seen to have alienated a large part of the electorate, the main group being the workers. Who the party was formed to represent in the first place.

Surely work should lead to your own benefit and perhaps mean you can be self reliant and not need the state to support you with benefits and if you can, you can start not needing the state to pay for your kids education or your medical fees which you can cough up for yourself now, so that costs the taxpayer less and we all benefit in some small way. But no. Rachel wants the taxpayer to pay more and more and so is wrecking the jobs market and people's ability to support themselves and the incentives to do so. Barmy.

Nom Doms were paying very little, if any tax but why should they easily avoid tax via policy? you and i cannot.

On self reliance and not claiming welfare, you re doing it again, presenting a case where no one pre July 24 claimed in work benefits, very clearly not true.

Wage rises are out stripping inflation, one "downside" to this is employers can't rely on cheap disposable labour, much more picky on who they employ, the positive is less is claimed in benefits.

Unemployment has gone up 0.6% over the last 19months, that is not "wrecking the jobs market"

Private health hasn't been affected by additional taxes etc, though tbf it should be or at least the sector made to contribute to NHS training costs, PH gets almost all its staff from the NHS, hardly an example of self reliance.

I know you re determined to blame Labour for all our long term problems but it just doesn't wash.

Non doms did pay a lot of tax just not on ww assets. RR has obviously belated realised it was a bad idea and changed her own changes. But the damage was done and golden goose killed.

Im.not saying being on benefits is a new phenomenon. It just seems to have accelerated under Labour looking at the figures. And the new Employers NI change (the effects of which are starting to filter through) and increased workers rights will just mean a rise in unemployment (which is already happening). And thus more on benefits. If you can get away with 4 employees rather than 5 you will, for example. And rights from day one is a disaster and will penalised the young and inexperienced and people with disabilities as no employer will want to take a punt on them. Oh and pubs and hospitality is a good starter job are but Labour have interfered there too to everyones detriment. Look at the figures and the rising unemployment.

And just think how this will be affected when AI decimates white collar jobs as well. What's Labour's plan? No one knows....

Private health if Labour use consistency in their ideology and aren't hypocrites (ahem) is the same as private schools in that it allegedly buys advantage. So should be attacked and an attempt made to wreck it. Give them time.

Nope, there is no evidence tax receipts are down from Nom Doms & the new regime is far more generous than the USA, where global income is taxed far sooner, not after 4 years.

If companies really are employing less people to produce the same output, then thats good for our productivity....

I do have some agreement with you on pubs/hospitality but then again, this sector faces the problem that we all stay in more and drink less, 5p off a pint isn't going to cut it & help is being given for business rates.

Plan on AI ? how on earth can you plan for something that no one has any idea on its impacts or effects?

Yet again blaming Labour for things out side of their control & i thought the right wanted a smaller state???

Inventing things they'll tax..... zero evidence they'll go for PHI... because Streeting needs the PH sector to lower NHS waiting lists.....

We will get a better picture a year or so after RRs changes.

So productivity will go up (will it? When?) But less people employed. What will happen to the unemployed people? Remember we are nearly 70 million people on this island and they all need feeding somehow.

Despite all the hardship they have gone through to cling on, otherwise viable pubs are being shut by government actions. Meaning a loss of jobs and tax revenue as well as often the loss of a community focus in the countryside now less go to Church.

AI...well some national plan would be a start!? And everyone else seems to be all over it in a private industry capacity eg law. What's Keirs contingency plan for a mass unemployment of white collar workers with huge uni debts? Or are we just going to leave it as a surprise?

Yes smaller state only doing the things that only the state can do and doing them well. Rather than interfering in every aspect of our lives, badly.

Well I know they won't do anything re private health care because it would stuff the NHS which can't cope. But its ideologically inconsistent. And I thought Labour were all about values....

What's Keirs contingency plan for a mass unemployment of white collar workers with huge uni debts? Or are we just going to leave it as a surprise?

What was Thatcher’s plan when she destroyed industry in the UK? There wasn’t one. AI will undoubtedly affect a huge number of people, it’s global and not due to any government policy. Global solutions will be needed, it’s beyond the ability of any single country to plan for it.

Do we really have to refer to something from the early 80s to excuse Starmer's lack of plan for AI in 2026? Only you seem to be fighting the battles of yesteryear.

Of course this country needs its own plan. Who are we supposed to leave decsions to in the world?? China? We are heavily reliant on the service industry for a start. And we are number 3 in the world in developing AI. Its a shame Ed Miliband is saying no to the extra power needed. So we will have no manufacturing and no white collar jobs.

We don’t leave decisions to the world. Surely you’re not so insular that you can’t see that a global problem can’t be solved nationally. China won’t have the same problem because it manufactures tangible products. Unlike the UK which used to be the workshop of the world. The reliance on service industries has put us in the situation we’ll soon be facing.

What world wide international body do you propose to solve the problem of Ai? Who will be members? And who will be the experts? The techbros in the US? What powers will this worldwide body have over say China?

The Uk needs to solve its own imbalance. Which is what I said in the first place? We can't rely on the world to solve that. Which is what I said?

Oh and ed milliband willl ensure we cant compete in manufacturing with the world any more

I dont consider myself "insular"? Are you?

Global cooperation to solve a global problem. It’s not a difficult concept.

Its not working out so well at the moment is it. Thats not a difficult concept either.

Still blaming Labour for things that haven't yet happened....

AI ? What would you suggest they plan for when the actual affects are totally unknown?

For the n th & last time, more pubs closed between 2010 and 2024 than have closed down over the last 18months... the average is approx 500 per year, in the last 12 months it was around 330....

Where was your concern then?

You know, sometimes i think its like arguing with Badenoch, faux concern.. & only when it suits!

Tories devasted manufacturing, not Labour and certainly not Miliband..... who at least is trying to lower energy costs for want remains, unlike 14 years of the Cons, in which energy went UP every year.

You are good at seeing the silver lining in the heavy cloud of this Labour government. It is almost impressive.

It reminds me a little of Keir Starmer's latest PMQs who answered every question about his current decisions with a little whataboutery, including something that happened 16 years ago. Its hard to be in government I suppose when you still think you're in opposition. It would be interesting one day to see what his own plans for government actually are.

"Where was your concern then?". What ..in 2010? What are you talking about?

"You know, sometimes i think its like arguing with Badenoch, faux concern.. & only when it suits!" I think you mean Keir Starmer who only seems to care about the wellbeing of women and girls to save his own skin. Remember...yesterday he equated eating cake with paedophilia and see trafficking which was an unusual approach even for him.

Peak deflection Kemi!

You had no concern about the 7000 pubs shut down over 14 years did you... no doubt, if asked you'd have said "Market forces... "

But now... wow! the end is nigh!

Plan on AI ? how on earth can you plan for something that no one has any idea on its impacts or effects?

That is true, but then one could say the same for Covid - yet on mn the Tories have been endlessly criticised for ruining children’s mental health because of excessive lockdowns and not being prepared for a pandemic and so on.

Of COURSE I was concerned. I love pubs.

No pub that is otherwise viable should be forced to close by government policy is my point. Not social factors.

Why use "Kemi" as some sort of insult? What if I started calling you "keir" in a derogatory. "Thats so very keir of you". You would grass me up to MN straight away for being rude.

I thought it term of endearment.... as its a thing she does well.. deflect!

Pubs have suffered from increased Govt costs, such as NMW and Business rates for decades, plus Govt campaigns that tell us all drink less.

Less are closing now, than at anytime since 2010.

My point is, as far as i'm aware, there was no threads on pub closures pre Labour coming into office.

One pub a day has closed since Labour came to power.

If you watched the last PMQs you might change your view on whether it was Kemi or Keir "eating cake and cheese is worse than paedophilia and sex trafficking" Starmer that is the best at deflecting.

Actually TBF, although Keir Starmer attempts to deflect every question every time, hes pretty terrible at it. All he does is doesnt answer the question and brings up something unrelated from 16 years ago. We can see what you're doing there, Son of a TM!