Is it possible that Mandelson might bring Starmer down?

[CurlewKate]

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@Pineneedlesincarpetis it clutching at straws to be worried that Nigel Farage, who appointed to a high profile leadership role someone that took Russian bribes, shouldn't be our future PM?

And by the way, I do think Starmer showed poor judgement and should probably go. But NF gets away with far worse because he is in the pocket of the right wing media.

Ok. Not the subject of the thread. And NF is not Prime Minister or in government. Let's wait and see if proceedings are brought against Nigel Farage.

Seriously- if there is evidence on Russian interference in the Brexit then please post a link to it. Otherwise it is simply your unsubstantiated opinion.

Secondly stating that "Farage is up to his neck in it" despite again no evidence is yet another personal bias without any facts.

If you are insistent on prioritising personal bias over facts then maybe you should be volunteering for jury service on the retrial of the Filton six ?

@1dayatatime I said there have been calls for a full investigation into Russian interference into brexit, just google it (the one they did previously left lots of unanswered questions). Again, i am simply saying Farage isn't innocent and all of this hero worshiping of him on here is frankly naive. Farage is a long time supporter of Trump which shows poor judgement at the very least given his association with epstein.

I dont think its hero worshipping. I think people just want a bit of honesty in politicians and that means that accusations should be evidence based. Thats all. If you start equating Nigel Farage with Peter Mandelson then you are diminishing real bad behaviour.

if you look at some of the messages referencing Brexit and Farage, there appears to be some evidence of foreign interference in Brexit.

I googled ‘is foreign interference in UK illegal” and there are quite a few laws and rules about this including;

National Security Act 2023: This Act established a specific "foreign interference offence" that makes it illegal to engage in conduct for or on behalf of a foreign power with the intention of influencing the UK's democratic processes in an illegitimate way (e.g., through misrepresentation or coercion). The Act also introduced a Foreign Influence Registration Scheme (FIRS) to bring transparency to foreign political influence activities, with a failure to register being a criminal offence

Therefore if there is evidence that Farage is responsible for foreign interference in Brexit then the police should be looking into it.

Reform are not centre right... they are further to the right than the AfD

You wish to wait 3.5 years before action... wow! thats some admission.

Why would a Tory Government not act on the 22 findings? they had 2 years..

Labour have enacted or begun to, all 22 findings, thats why they were against a new inquiry... time wasting, these poor girls have not got time.

Farage excused Russian invading Crimea, he stood up in the EU Parliament and argued this.. its on public record, his best best was jailed for taking Russian money... Mandelson is being, in part, pilloried for association...

Farage then said the EU and NATO provoked Russia into invading Ukraine, giving Putin the excuse he needed....

I think thats the inexcusable & giving Putin has threatened to launch Nuclear weapons at us all....

They are not far right. What policies of Reform's are far right?

I think politicians should be accountable. I just think you need to hold one to the same standards as another. The left hold the right to much higher standards than the left apply to themselves. For example I remember how pious KS was about Boris eating a piece of cake. He said that Boris as a result was unfit for office and should resign. Tony Blair said "no more sleaze no more cash for questions no more lies" of the Conservatives and then as soon as New Labour were elected were plunged into the Ecclestone affair, cash for honours, Mandleson's first sacking....

The NF criticisms are really clutching at straws. Firstly hes not actually in government. Secondly his view re Nato is a widely held view. Not one I agree with but hes allowed to have it. He is not in charge of our military or making decisions regarding Ukraine. If he has an alternative view he can put it in the manifesto and see what voters think.

@Pineneedlesincarpet Starmer said he would resign if the police found him guilty of breaking lockdown rules. And he would have done (because he would have been toast of he then hadnt) but they didn't. Boris was forced to resign, he didnt do it because he felt any remorse. Starmer has shown poor judgement, but Boris broke lockdown rules repeatedly and unashamedly while people were burying their loved ones. Starmer may now decide to resign. The right wing press have held him and Raynor to much higher account than anyone on the right. You are just seeing it through a certain lens. Farage lied about his residence in Clacton belonging to him. How was this not worse than what Raynor did? The bbc are petrified of him and never ask him any awkward questions.

The problem with not scrutinising Farage is that he is likely to become PM in a few years. So why shouldn't we be scrutinising his admiration for Putin and views on Nato? Why should we ignore countless people from his past when they said he has been a racist bully? Particularly when he shows no sign of remorse.

Starmer is far worse with this current debacle and I think you've forgotten Lord Ali. And the worst thing Angela R did was regarding her son's trust.

Also Boris was judged by the notoriously political independent Sue Gray....So Im not 100% the man who was fresh out of ICU with a new born was spending a huge amount of time partying realistically.

If thats all the left have on NF no wonder they are dredging unprovable tales up from his school days.

Starmer is currently relying on McSweeney to take the fall as he did Sue Gray over freebies.

He relies on people going and shifting the blame to save his own skin.

I may be in a minority of one, but I do believe that SKS is a decent and competent person who wants to do a decent job. And I am saying that as a Tory.

Compared to Milliband (three failed attempts at Labour leadership) or Rayner (still hasn't paid her SDLT to HMRC), SKS is a f*cking genius. I'm not a fan girl, but in this moment, relatively honest and fairly competent seems to be the best we can hope for!

Much as it pains me, we had that with Rishi. I am looking back at that time slightly wistfully these days which surprises me.

Gosh no I agree with @Pineneedlesincarpetthough on RS

Not really what I would call a discussion - Peter Thiel only replies; “Of what?”
A very one-sided chess game, to use your analogy.

Absolutely- compared to what the alternative leaders are within the Labour Party, SKS is by far the best option.

Although I still think Sunak would have been a better option.

Starmer said he would resign if the police found him guilty of breaking lockdown rules

A deliberate strategy placing extra importance/pressure on the police decision.

The Met Police were 'out of time' to investigate Starmer's voice coach sessions during lockdown.

Boris broke lockdown rules repeatedly

Clearly not - he only received one £50 fine.

So why shouldn't we be scrutinising his admiration for Putin and views on Nato?

Were you worried about Jeremy Corbyn and Seumas Milne, Labour's director of strategy and communications 2015 - 2020? Did you vote Labour in 2017/2019?

https://www.stopwar.org.uk/article/far-from-keeping-the-peace-nato-s-masters-of-war-are-a-threat-to-it/
https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-3298550/Red-handed-Photograph-shows-Jeremy-Corbyn-s-pro-Kremlin-spin-chief-held-Putin-s-iron-grip-propaganda-summit.html

Farage lied about his residence in Clacton belonging to him. How was this not worse than what Raynor did?

Why don't you write to HMRC and ask them to investigate?

Surely the irritating fly in the ointment is that Angela Rayner told us all that she wanted to ensure her ND child had a safe space forever. And now, it doesn't look quite that way.

Criticisms of Farage are valid, he may be our PM in 3 years time, what he thinks on Putin/EU/NATO very much matter.

Reforms policy on deporting 600k migrants inc those with indefinite leave to remain, is right wing, their candidate for Denton (Matt Goodwin) things women & men who don't have children should be taxed....

Sunak? well we had 6 months of recession in the Q3/4 of 2023, he allowed HS2 to continue, then cancelled it, costing 29billion, food inflation at 30%.... hyper energy bills.... then there is Covid loans fraud, his freezing of tax thresholds, messing up the student loans... all criticisms you make of Reeves but when Sunak did similar its "all what a great guy!"

Doubtless you'll claim "external factors" but when Reeves says that... no such leeway given.

Agree what NF thinks about the EU and NATO matters and Im sure it will be in the manifesto for everyone to decide whether to vote for it. I suspect his views on the EU won't be a huge surprise.

Deporting people who have no right to be here is logical and again, it shouldnt be a left/right policy, just a policy.

The Conservatives were obviously not great which is why they got kicked out. But as Keir Starmer is the most unpopular PM of all time, it seems that people preferred Rishi. And I particularly dislike the ideological aspects of RRs tax policies. They seem very vindictive towards people who have just been getting on with their lives eg farmers, publicans, school children, people who live in the countryside, pensioners, small business owners. I don't claim "external factors" with those actually. I just think its stupidity.

Its his views on the EU and Russia that matter far more than his eurosceptic ones.
There are still questions on his Nazi beliefs as a teenager.

A manifesto can say whatever it likes, its not a legal contract.

My worry with Reform is the people it attracts, people like Matt Goodwin or Tommy Robinson, who endorsed Matt Goodwin and Farage refuses to reject that endorsement.

Deporting EU citizens given the right to remain, means people in the NHS, care homes, factories, people with kids born here.

Labour have sent back 60k people here illegally, 3x more than anything Sunak or Bojo ever did... i hope you wellcome this?

What are you saying he will do re the EU and Russia? What has he actually said he will do? Thats all anyone can base their opinion on. Not some suspicion in your head.

A breach of a manifesto commitment is a serious thing and usually has political repercussions.

You just don't agree with Matt Goodwin politically. He used to be left wing too by the way but studied the effects of immigration and as a result now stands for Reform. SonI dont think you need to equate him with Tommy R. That's just lazy.

Yes Reform will attract unsavoury types. But most people who support Reform are perfectly reasonable people who like their policies and don't like what Labour has become. I find the sectariansim of the Gaza Independents far more terrifying.

We can't afford to pay benefits to the Boris wave. Thats the trouble. Many people have come here and claimed benefits rather than being net contributors. They shouldn't be here if they can't support themselves. And AI and Labours employment laws and tax will mean rising unemployment. Plenty of people here will need those jobs in the NHS and carehomes.

I do welcome these deportations. Why wouldn't I? We've got nearly 70 million people stuffed on this tiny island. Why would we want more?

There are still questions on his Nazi beliefs as a teenager.

Alexandra There are plenty of Labour MPs who had communist beliefs when young. Is that acceptable, considering what Stalin and Mao and other communists did?