Ban the burka?

[TalkToTheHand123]

Question asked in the commons today. Should it be banned?

It’s not just a random piece of clothing though, is it?

Yes I think all face coverings should be banned in public. With the exception of a medical face mask covering mouth and nose only.

Absolutely not @TalkToTheHand123.

The state should not dictate what women wear, be it Iran, Saudi Arabia or UK.

But it’s men who are dictating that women were the burkha - it’s disingenuous to pretend otherwise

this is about women’s right to choose what to wear - but not the way you are saying

Exactly. People always mention nuns and orthodox Jews on threads like this, but their attire is not really comparable with full face covering.

Are balaclavas part of a system of oppressing and controlling people who wear them?

no. Of course not.

banning the burka is about protecting women forced to wear burkas

Education of whom though? The men?
I can see your point how an outright ban could lead to some women being unable to leave the house at all, but I don’t think that the men who impose such restrictions on them would be particularly interested in being educated…

Agree with this.

women do not need to be controlled by men.

Quite - and such women should be identified and supported and the men prosecuted for domestic abuse

Super inflammatory op, but yes it should be banned

What purpose does it serve?

Education better than a ban = clearly education isn't working.

In fact MORE women are wearing burkas

I don't think the state- any state- should single out any part of their population.

If the state makes it as obvious as just banning one particular item of oppressive clothing people soon come up with an alternative: same shite, different design & name.

A blanket ban of face coverings on the other hand removes all potential loopholes.

No. If they try and make it about women’s rights and equality then politicians could do a lot more for all women, not just targeting some Muslim communities. To say it’s for women’s rights is completely disingenuous.

Do you not think burkas are a women’s rights issue?

Yes, of course I do. I don’t think Reform are asking that question because of women’s rights though.

In an ideal world this would be my stance. But it is not an ideal world and whilst some women do were them out of choice, others do feel coerced into wearing them.

So just because you disagree with reform you abandon a principle you believe in?

this is the problem with tribal politics

Well can we ban lads on scooters from wearing ski masks please

I really don't like the idea of ideologically or religiously compelled clothing, personal grooming or modifiers to appearance, having lived adjacent to this and felt the absolutely crushing pressure to comply. But I'm also torn about the state telling people what not to wear. I do think that a visible face is an important part of social trust and cohesion.

If you don't cover your skin, body, hair or face, you will be punished. You don't know what's good for you because you're a woman.

vs

If you don't expose your skin, body, hair or face, you will be punished. You don't know what's good for you because you're a most likely to be brown woman.

Like two dogs with a bone, fighting over who gets to order women around.

That’s my feeling too.
I grew up in an area with a large Muslim population.
Back then (90s) I saw plenty of women wearing simple hijabs (often in combination with fairly Western clothing), but never niqabs, and never head coverings on school girls. Nowadays on the school run (primary), I see several women with full face covering and a couple of girls aged 9 or 10 in hijabs.

I didn’t say I agree with banning the burka, I said it is a women’s rights issue. It depends on why the woman is wearing it though. I think it’s a slippery slope if governments start to ban religious clothing or customs.

Editing to add - 6.5% of the UK’s population are Muslim so roughly 3% women. How many of them actually wear burkas?? Is this really a key issue or are Reform making it one for headlines?

Who is telling women to expose their skin, body and hair, otherwise they’d be punished? We’re talking about face coverings.

Hmmm. I don’t know. I’m an old fashioned, rural type. I tend to work in the basis of kindness, respect and choice.

I would never rock up to church in a thong here. I would never pick my children up in pyjamas.

i tend to stick to leggings and a hoodie.

if I went abroad, I tend to observe the culture and respect that. So shoes off if requested, no swimwear if requested. Covered arms if requested.

for the UK, there is NO requirement to wear a burka. I agree with those saying in a public place that becomes difficult, as does a balaclava. Or a kilt. Or whatever.

I think people as a whole need to be more realistic and respectful of the society in which they reside.