Starmer Must Go

[BisiBodi]

I made a lengthy post yesterday (on this thread: www.mumsnet.com/talk/politics/5333405-changes-to-immigration-rules-announced-by-starmer?page=2 @ 17:43 if you want to read it) regarding the horrendous "island of strangers" speech by Starmer
Today, Kier Starmer has decided to say that immigration has done "incalculable damage" to the country. My despair and fury over this, and the general direction of labour, warrants its own thread.

Starmer claimed in writing that immigrants have put too much pressure on housing and public services (they don't, and he previously said they don't). He added that the immigration system is “almost designed to permit abuse” and that it risks “pulling the country apart”. He said that he wanted to close a “squalid chapter” in our country’s history (of too much immigration in the last few years), and then he seemed to quote the Rivers of Blood speech and said that without significantly reducing immigration the UK risks becoming “an island of strangers".

He's doing this because he's proposing new laws to make immigration harder and bring net migration down (except they definitely won't). Stuff like increasing it to 10 years before you can apply for indefinite leave to remain (10 years!!), introducing English language tests (in a post that suggests Welsh doesn't exist), reducing social care visas (the system would collapse in a day), being tougher on overseas students and reducing the time they can stay after graduation (if you reduce their numbers at all then Universities will be bankrupt immediately), new ID cards, reduce (oh sorry, "clarify") the amount ECHR article 8 can be used to justify people staying on human rights grounds, etc.

When someone pointed out that high migration helps economies and low hurts them, and that this is true in the EU right now and all over the world, Starmer didn't think so. He said that immigration has been high in the UK but the economy has been stagnant, so there can't be any link. Yes Keir, but the economy was stagnant during A PANDEMIC AND ENERGY CRISIS AND COST OF LIVING CRISIS AND EXPENSIVE NEW WARS AND GLOBAL MARKET TRUMP TURMOIL. If the immigrants hadn't kept us level, your "stagnant" economy would have plummeted like a rock. You cannot possibly be presenting that as X=Y in a total vacuum.

This kind of xenophobia doesn't need explaining, but it's worth saying why it won't work and will lose Labour a lot of votes:

• Conservative and Reform voters do NOT change their vote to Labour ever, so this pandering is worthless. But Labour can lose votes to the Greens and LDs at a high rate. Nearly ALL the Reform votes come from former Conservatives.
• Public concern about immigration is low and goes up and down exactly with how much the press is currently going on about it (see the graph) so is not worth alienating your voter base about
• And it is alienating voters, because you've heard this kind of rhetoric before but it was from the actual NF and BNP
• The Mail's headline today was still attacking Labour because it is impossible to ever go far enough for them, or for Reform voters. Nothing is ever enough.

So, Labour saying "Reform are right actually" won't bring a single voter over to Labour, but it sure will lose you a few. Or, er, a lot. People are resigning their Labour membership and sounding furious. I haven't seen a single event trigger this much outrage from the public (and Labour MPs) in quite a while. Starmer has hugely damaged himself. Germany's far-right AfD are praising him, that's the level it's at.

I already left for the Greens, but today has me going even further. I think it's now worth the potential chaos to get rid of Starmer's version of Labour. In a timely article today, Nesrine Malik called our current elections "hostage politics". You MUST vote Labour or the Tories will get in. Now you MUST vote Labour or Reform will get in.

I don't respond well to threats. Never have. I tend to escalate. And I'm bored of their crap: more cuts, keeping first-past-the-post even though Labour members want PR, refusing to talk about rejoining the EU even though Labour members (and the majority of the country) want full rejoin, this xenophobic shit which goes against everything Starmer said about immigration when he was running for leader (but then he's broken every pledge from that time), the anti-trans bollocks, coming for the disabled PIP and saying all benefits are too high and that people are taking advantage of handouts and all the rest.

Fuck these guys. There's pragmatic politics where you compromise, and then there's this literal far-right shit that means you personally HAVE to be comfortable with saying it in public. It's about the soul of the PM and the party. Today is way over the line of sensible cross-party anything.

And I'm done with hostage politics. What, so we keep Labour in for 8 more years of... this? Of the same or more cuts? I'm rapidly approaching the point where smashing this Labour party so that they never try to be centre- / far-right again would do more good than the short-term harm.

Voters didn't show unwavering support for Labour at the last election, they showed that they will be extremely flexible and vote for whoever can win in their area. If Labour become unpopular in the polls, that will be someone else and not them. Labour's lead is incredibly fragile and changeable and today's performance is EXACTLY how they lose it and deserve to lose it. Yes, some young men went to Reform before the election... and twice as many young women went to the Greens. Labour's share fell 21% in 18-24 year olds. You cannot gain a single Reform vote by going right. It will never be far-right enough.
Saying that Reform are correct and using their rhetoric in speeches and changing your policies to theirs is NOT how you defeat them, or run a country.

Replace Starmer, quickly. At the very least.

And so what is the purpose of this thread, other than to vent into an online echo-chamber? I think it's a request to a call to action. It's a call out to everyone who currently resides - whether you like it or not - in a Labour controlled constituency and has a labour MP.

You can easily find out the details, together with links to their speeches and/or voting records, from service such as They Work For You.
Check the details of your MP, and especially their stance on immigration and other matters important to you, then email them.

Then end the discrepancy in pupil funding in the north, raise standards in Northern schools, increase careers advice etc. Do things which actually help instead dangling the preserve of MC in front of them ie Erasmus

No, don't forget the red wall. Cheaper food and 9bn for the economy will benefit them too.

Your turn now.

You say no to a youth mobility scheme and Erasmus?

You make a good point, I don’t think it’ll swing it much in some areas.

So you paid their maintenance in Europe? Kids who need a full maintenance loan cannot benefit without a scheme.

I don't have a problem at all with Erasmus. I'm also happy for all the young people who will take advantage of it. To pretend this will be beneficial to deprived communities is laughable.

As I wrote in my pp, kids who could were already doing it, as my dc did after Brexit.* *

The I am alright Jacks were never affected in the first place

If it benefits only a few, it is still worth it. It opens the door instead of closing it.

I think Erasmus and youth mobility schemes are great but stop trying to position them as benefiting WC kids in Red Wall areas. They are the preserve of the MC and will continue to be.
Highly disingenuous to claim otherwise

How is it "out of touch"? Presumably because you think material interests are the only link to social and political possibilities but actually as we all know, the social contract is dead, so young people are looking for a different vision now. Young people need to be told the possibilities are there not be held back by the older generations telling them that the illusory economic picture they are referencing is 'real' life- is isn't for Gen Z or Gen Alpha or let's be frank, many under 40!

Only young people who have been brought up to believe that's possible. If they haven't then they won't know what is possible.
Like I said Erasmus had always been utilised predominantly by MC kids and will continue to do so. Stop pretending that this is an opportunity for majority of WC kids.

With all this it’s down to the voter. There’s no point saying you should be happy this is happening. They’ll let politicians know at the ballot box if Erasmus or something else is a priority.

Can you imagine voters saying "I've been unemployed for 15 years, UC been cut, no qualifications but hey Labour brought back Erasmus"? 🙄 Yeh I'm sure that will swing their vote away from Reform

Not always.

You don't need to be brought up to be told Erasmus is possible, you just need to be told about it and that it is an option for you like any other young person in the country. I didn't describe it as being an opportunity for a majority of working class kids, it is an opportunity for all young people whether you want it to be or not!

"You just need to be told about it" . You think schools where fewer than 40% of kids leave with 5 GCSEs are telling those kids about Erasmus?
How out of touch do you need to be?

I again maintain it is the preserve of MC kids and if you don't even have a passport then it certainly isn't accessible

You don’t need GCSEs to get a bar job or tour guiding or entertainment job in Ibiza. That is the whole point. You need to give children from deprived backgrounds all types of cultural opportunities.

Why not, why not tell them about it, when it happens? Where do you get your inspiration from - Schopenhauer?

Because going abroad and seeing a different perspective is what grows the mind, having all types of opportunity. If working class kids from all over the world can do it, so can ours. And they have to be told that they can.

Exactly, "you know what young person, you haven't had these opportunities but you can now" what is so wrong with a bit of optimism.

And they have to be told that they can.

I’m not sure how it works - are schools supposed to tell children? Who helps them organise it?

It's not a possibility for kids who've not got decent GCSE results because of parental disinterest, lack of aspiration, suffering a crap comp, getting involved in street crime, drugs, etc., all of which is more prevailent outside of the "naice" MC areas.

That’s the beauty of democracy everyone gets an equal vote and can use it on what they care about.

(and no we shouldn’t take any away which is often a retort to people voting, not by you I hasten to add ; )

Schools and Colleges have Careers Advisory services, I would imagine via those avenues but I really don't know how it is going to be implemented as I don't work for the government or Erasmus.

When the UK was in the EU, everybody could take advantage of FoM and look for a job in another EU country.

Most don't now. They were all cut.

You have a very strange view of working class people.

Even if no working class kid is ever told directly about Erasmus or any other yourh mobility initiatives, the information will be at the fingertips of any young person who might be wondering how they can widen their horizons. Or do you think working class children have no aspirations and don't know how to use the Internet?