Starmer Must Go

[BisiBodi]

I made a lengthy post yesterday (on this thread: www.mumsnet.com/talk/politics/5333405-changes-to-immigration-rules-announced-by-starmer?page=2 @ 17:43 if you want to read it) regarding the horrendous "island of strangers" speech by Starmer
Today, Kier Starmer has decided to say that immigration has done "incalculable damage" to the country. My despair and fury over this, and the general direction of labour, warrants its own thread.

Starmer claimed in writing that immigrants have put too much pressure on housing and public services (they don't, and he previously said they don't). He added that the immigration system is “almost designed to permit abuse” and that it risks “pulling the country apart”. He said that he wanted to close a “squalid chapter” in our country’s history (of too much immigration in the last few years), and then he seemed to quote the Rivers of Blood speech and said that without significantly reducing immigration the UK risks becoming “an island of strangers".

He's doing this because he's proposing new laws to make immigration harder and bring net migration down (except they definitely won't). Stuff like increasing it to 10 years before you can apply for indefinite leave to remain (10 years!!), introducing English language tests (in a post that suggests Welsh doesn't exist), reducing social care visas (the system would collapse in a day), being tougher on overseas students and reducing the time they can stay after graduation (if you reduce their numbers at all then Universities will be bankrupt immediately), new ID cards, reduce (oh sorry, "clarify") the amount ECHR article 8 can be used to justify people staying on human rights grounds, etc.

When someone pointed out that high migration helps economies and low hurts them, and that this is true in the EU right now and all over the world, Starmer didn't think so. He said that immigration has been high in the UK but the economy has been stagnant, so there can't be any link. Yes Keir, but the economy was stagnant during A PANDEMIC AND ENERGY CRISIS AND COST OF LIVING CRISIS AND EXPENSIVE NEW WARS AND GLOBAL MARKET TRUMP TURMOIL. If the immigrants hadn't kept us level, your "stagnant" economy would have plummeted like a rock. You cannot possibly be presenting that as X=Y in a total vacuum.

This kind of xenophobia doesn't need explaining, but it's worth saying why it won't work and will lose Labour a lot of votes:

• Conservative and Reform voters do NOT change their vote to Labour ever, so this pandering is worthless. But Labour can lose votes to the Greens and LDs at a high rate. Nearly ALL the Reform votes come from former Conservatives.
• Public concern about immigration is low and goes up and down exactly with how much the press is currently going on about it (see the graph) so is not worth alienating your voter base about
• And it is alienating voters, because you've heard this kind of rhetoric before but it was from the actual NF and BNP
• The Mail's headline today was still attacking Labour because it is impossible to ever go far enough for them, or for Reform voters. Nothing is ever enough.

So, Labour saying "Reform are right actually" won't bring a single voter over to Labour, but it sure will lose you a few. Or, er, a lot. People are resigning their Labour membership and sounding furious. I haven't seen a single event trigger this much outrage from the public (and Labour MPs) in quite a while. Starmer has hugely damaged himself. Germany's far-right AfD are praising him, that's the level it's at.

I already left for the Greens, but today has me going even further. I think it's now worth the potential chaos to get rid of Starmer's version of Labour. In a timely article today, Nesrine Malik called our current elections "hostage politics". You MUST vote Labour or the Tories will get in. Now you MUST vote Labour or Reform will get in.

I don't respond well to threats. Never have. I tend to escalate. And I'm bored of their crap: more cuts, keeping first-past-the-post even though Labour members want PR, refusing to talk about rejoining the EU even though Labour members (and the majority of the country) want full rejoin, this xenophobic shit which goes against everything Starmer said about immigration when he was running for leader (but then he's broken every pledge from that time), the anti-trans bollocks, coming for the disabled PIP and saying all benefits are too high and that people are taking advantage of handouts and all the rest.

Fuck these guys. There's pragmatic politics where you compromise, and then there's this literal far-right shit that means you personally HAVE to be comfortable with saying it in public. It's about the soul of the PM and the party. Today is way over the line of sensible cross-party anything.

And I'm done with hostage politics. What, so we keep Labour in for 8 more years of... this? Of the same or more cuts? I'm rapidly approaching the point where smashing this Labour party so that they never try to be centre- / far-right again would do more good than the short-term harm.

Voters didn't show unwavering support for Labour at the last election, they showed that they will be extremely flexible and vote for whoever can win in their area. If Labour become unpopular in the polls, that will be someone else and not them. Labour's lead is incredibly fragile and changeable and today's performance is EXACTLY how they lose it and deserve to lose it. Yes, some young men went to Reform before the election... and twice as many young women went to the Greens. Labour's share fell 21% in 18-24 year olds. You cannot gain a single Reform vote by going right. It will never be far-right enough.
Saying that Reform are correct and using their rhetoric in speeches and changing your policies to theirs is NOT how you defeat them, or run a country.

Replace Starmer, quickly. At the very least.

And so what is the purpose of this thread, other than to vent into an online echo-chamber? I think it's a request to a call to action. It's a call out to everyone who currently resides - whether you like it or not - in a Labour controlled constituency and has a labour MP.

You can easily find out the details, together with links to their speeches and/or voting records, from service such as They Work For You.
Check the details of your MP, and especially their stance on immigration and other matters important to you, then email them.

I've just realised that I really should have called this thread "Labour; a Farce to be Reckoned With".

Alas, it is ever thus that these ideas come to us too late!

100% agree with you. It’s absolutely unforgivable what he’s done. I’ll never vote for Labour again.

Who in the Labour party do you feel is best placed to replace Starmer?

Starmer must go and be replaced by... Who?

Read the room . Your views are not aligned with an increasing number of the public .

And if anyone was under any illusion that the BBC is at all left wing, evidence to the contrary

Starmer's robust language nods to immigration failures www.bbc.com/news/articles/c989e24r051o

I don’t think public concern over immigration is low at all. It depends where you live and your circle of friends I guess. I work in retail and live in a small town and I have conversations daily with people who are sick to the back teeth of it. Not so much economic factors but how the fabric of communities is changing. I travelled to the Utilita Arena in Birmingham recently for a show and I was genuinely flabbergasted that all the local area that our hotel was in was unrecognisable. None of the shop signs were English, all the food outlets were Halal. There was also so many derelict buildings, smashed windows, rubbish everywhere. Groups of men in the streets. Barely any women in sight. It was shocking, really was.

introducing English language tests (in a post that suggests Welsh doesn't exist)

You lost me at this.

I live in Wales. Everyone who speaks Welsh is also fluent in English, which is either their first language or they are dual language speakers. You do actually need to know English in Wales. Fewer than 1 in five people in Wales speak Welsh. In the extraordinary incident of an immigrant to the UK only being able to speak Welsh, it’s actually right that they should have to know English too. Just like every Welsh speaker in Wales does.

Since becoming PM, he hasn’t been very ‘Labour’, that’s for sure. I do think there is a valid argument for immigration being reduced, but I’m very disappointed by much of the wording of his speech. Starmer is just another politician though, a snake who is self serving, so I’m not really shocked. I don’t believe he is going anywhere so expect more of this from him.

The BBC follows the government line.

Yep. Which is why it astounds me that some people still insist that it’s some liberal institution 😂

Get real. The guy is not going anywhere. You seem surprised that he’s a politician.

Whether he gets elected again is another matter. His coalition of voters from last year looks quite unstable. The gamble is clearly to wait until the next election which is entirely normal. And then like every other politician he will take his chances

I’m not sure the old arguments about immigration apply in our new situation where it has absolutely rocketed in the past handful of years.

I don’t like Starmer’s rhetoric at all here, but I also don’t think the recent net migration figures are something to brush off. How are we to improve the job market and working conditions for our children if the solution is always to bring in migrants to do the work rather than improving pay and conditions and training? I’m speaking for teaching in particular here, because that’s my area.

He won’t go and Reeves will stay no matter what.

Just keep voting against and see them out at the GE.

Why is it "left-wing" to import endless servants for the natives?

Don't quote the OP.. ffs!

Op you should come and live in Birmingham. I for one, do think immigration is out of control, and making it tougher is fine. There are special rules for high level jobs like doctors

I think Starmer has done the right thing. The electorate is showing they don't want this high migration. It's time we face facts and that we can't support our care system as it is.

I disagree with defining skilled workers as those with a degree either. We should just stop with all these work visas. Young graduates are struggling to get jobs. So are older workers with degrees losing their jobs due to ageism. Companies will always want to hire the cheaper migrant worker if they have the choice.

I think the point made yesterday is that it will no longer be the solution. And it is a big shift, rhetoric or not.

The only way the PM is out is if his own party get rid of him (Labour never do what the Tories do and defenestrate a winner, they are just grateful to win), or he loses an election.

I have never seen a PM leave office in my lifetime in any other way.

All these young graduates who are struggling to get jobs….all willing to do a bit of a graft in the health and social care sector are they? No. I thought not.

We left the EU and with it went a huge number of our health and social care staff-nurses from Greece and Spain used to be a common staff group in the NHS but no more. So we had to get staff from further afield. India, Pakistan, Philipines, Nigeria. And the vast majority of them are brilliant and hard working.
Without them the NHS and social care grinds to a halt very quickly.

Who else is going to do the jobs that ‘all these young graduates’ won’t do?

There is no long term solution to the supposed lack of a local servant class that looks like importing endless servants.

Go on….

Up to 2020 it was fine. It is totally out of control now (Brexit backfire - understatement).

Other EU countries have our pre 2020 levels, from ChatGPT "While several EU countries have experienced notable increases in net migration, the UK's surge since 2020 is unparalleled in both absolute numbers and the rate of increase. This trend is largely attributed to post-Brexit immigration policy changes that have shifted the focus from EU to non-EU migrants."

We need to train up the existing workforce. Delaying this is not going to help anyone.

What don't you understand?

It’s not even party specific to say immigration is now too much

I fail to see how anyone from any party alignment can still argue it’s a good thing.

All this outrage about ‘rhetoric’….i just think you are naive in the extreme, pathologically empathetic to people who you don’t know anything about while having no empathy at all for the people who are reporting significant damage to communities they value.

OP, you need to get with the programme. Look around past the Guardian narrative from 2020 and start listening to what your fellow citizens are saying,

I despise him, but at least KS is actually listening. I don’t think he’ll do anything about it, but this flip flop is welcome.