Starmer Must Go

[BisiBodi]

I made a lengthy post yesterday (on this thread: www.mumsnet.com/talk/politics/5333405-changes-to-immigration-rules-announced-by-starmer?page=2 @ 17:43 if you want to read it) regarding the horrendous "island of strangers" speech by Starmer
Today, Kier Starmer has decided to say that immigration has done "incalculable damage" to the country. My despair and fury over this, and the general direction of labour, warrants its own thread.

Starmer claimed in writing that immigrants have put too much pressure on housing and public services (they don't, and he previously said they don't). He added that the immigration system is “almost designed to permit abuse” and that it risks “pulling the country apart”. He said that he wanted to close a “squalid chapter” in our country’s history (of too much immigration in the last few years), and then he seemed to quote the Rivers of Blood speech and said that without significantly reducing immigration the UK risks becoming “an island of strangers".

He's doing this because he's proposing new laws to make immigration harder and bring net migration down (except they definitely won't). Stuff like increasing it to 10 years before you can apply for indefinite leave to remain (10 years!!), introducing English language tests (in a post that suggests Welsh doesn't exist), reducing social care visas (the system would collapse in a day), being tougher on overseas students and reducing the time they can stay after graduation (if you reduce their numbers at all then Universities will be bankrupt immediately), new ID cards, reduce (oh sorry, "clarify") the amount ECHR article 8 can be used to justify people staying on human rights grounds, etc.

When someone pointed out that high migration helps economies and low hurts them, and that this is true in the EU right now and all over the world, Starmer didn't think so. He said that immigration has been high in the UK but the economy has been stagnant, so there can't be any link. Yes Keir, but the economy was stagnant during A PANDEMIC AND ENERGY CRISIS AND COST OF LIVING CRISIS AND EXPENSIVE NEW WARS AND GLOBAL MARKET TRUMP TURMOIL. If the immigrants hadn't kept us level, your "stagnant" economy would have plummeted like a rock. You cannot possibly be presenting that as X=Y in a total vacuum.

This kind of xenophobia doesn't need explaining, but it's worth saying why it won't work and will lose Labour a lot of votes:

• Conservative and Reform voters do NOT change their vote to Labour ever, so this pandering is worthless. But Labour can lose votes to the Greens and LDs at a high rate. Nearly ALL the Reform votes come from former Conservatives.
• Public concern about immigration is low and goes up and down exactly with how much the press is currently going on about it (see the graph) so is not worth alienating your voter base about
• And it is alienating voters, because you've heard this kind of rhetoric before but it was from the actual NF and BNP
• The Mail's headline today was still attacking Labour because it is impossible to ever go far enough for them, or for Reform voters. Nothing is ever enough.

So, Labour saying "Reform are right actually" won't bring a single voter over to Labour, but it sure will lose you a few. Or, er, a lot. People are resigning their Labour membership and sounding furious. I haven't seen a single event trigger this much outrage from the public (and Labour MPs) in quite a while. Starmer has hugely damaged himself. Germany's far-right AfD are praising him, that's the level it's at.

I already left for the Greens, but today has me going even further. I think it's now worth the potential chaos to get rid of Starmer's version of Labour. In a timely article today, Nesrine Malik called our current elections "hostage politics". You MUST vote Labour or the Tories will get in. Now you MUST vote Labour or Reform will get in.

I don't respond well to threats. Never have. I tend to escalate. And I'm bored of their crap: more cuts, keeping first-past-the-post even though Labour members want PR, refusing to talk about rejoining the EU even though Labour members (and the majority of the country) want full rejoin, this xenophobic shit which goes against everything Starmer said about immigration when he was running for leader (but then he's broken every pledge from that time), the anti-trans bollocks, coming for the disabled PIP and saying all benefits are too high and that people are taking advantage of handouts and all the rest.

Fuck these guys. There's pragmatic politics where you compromise, and then there's this literal far-right shit that means you personally HAVE to be comfortable with saying it in public. It's about the soul of the PM and the party. Today is way over the line of sensible cross-party anything.

And I'm done with hostage politics. What, so we keep Labour in for 8 more years of... this? Of the same or more cuts? I'm rapidly approaching the point where smashing this Labour party so that they never try to be centre- / far-right again would do more good than the short-term harm.

Voters didn't show unwavering support for Labour at the last election, they showed that they will be extremely flexible and vote for whoever can win in their area. If Labour become unpopular in the polls, that will be someone else and not them. Labour's lead is incredibly fragile and changeable and today's performance is EXACTLY how they lose it and deserve to lose it. Yes, some young men went to Reform before the election... and twice as many young women went to the Greens. Labour's share fell 21% in 18-24 year olds. You cannot gain a single Reform vote by going right. It will never be far-right enough.
Saying that Reform are correct and using their rhetoric in speeches and changing your policies to theirs is NOT how you defeat them, or run a country.

Replace Starmer, quickly. At the very least.

And so what is the purpose of this thread, other than to vent into an online echo-chamber? I think it's a request to a call to action. It's a call out to everyone who currently resides - whether you like it or not - in a Labour controlled constituency and has a labour MP.

You can easily find out the details, together with links to their speeches and/or voting records, from service such as They Work For You.
Check the details of your MP, and especially their stance on immigration and other matters important to you, then email them.

And be replaced by whom?

Why has net migration exploded then? This doesn’t appear to be a case of simply replacing EU nationals that left after Brexit with non-EU nationals.

Because we have known for some time that people are living for longer in poorer health. So now we need more bodies to look after our sick and elderly. The need for staff is increasing and is going to continue to do so

Go on as in, I’m interested to hear more on what you have to say

Do you have the data to show the social care workforce accounting for this recent explosion in net migration?

People can quote the OP if they want to.

I've said everything I think. What do you want me to do - restate my point in other terms? Here goes:

Self-proclaimed left-wingers moaning that "we can't get the servants" as a justification for endless immigration is one of the most paradoxical parts of the mad globalist "left" (which is nothing of the sort, they are just brainwashed by the super rich).

I don’t disagree with your general views on the policy. I don’t like the policy, and I also think they’re making a mistake in attempting to be more reform. If you like reform, you’ll vote for them or maybe the Tories (especially once they ditch Badenoch and put Jenrick in, which is my prediction). Why would you vote Labour?
But I cannot bear this attitude that a politician must stand down because they’ve done something some people don’t like. Almost every new policy from whoever is in government is met by someone saying “this is outrageous, they must go!!”

I’m also not sure why you think we have 8 more years of Labour? We have 4 more years, or 9 more years.

Sure. Take a look at the Unseen Care Sector report 2023

From your perspective what would be the solution?

It is economically and culturally untenable to import endless servants ("bodies" FFS) to take care of people artificially maintained on death row.

The only solution is for people to live independently in good health for as long as possible and to be allowed to die rather than saved from heart disease/pneumonia etc that in the past killed people off in old age but not extreme deterioration and dependence.

But only 200,000 immigrants work in the NHS and there were 1.2million immigrants in 2024.

There are many jobs that they would rather do, where they can earn more money, then move on to better paid jobs such as cab driving-

In England 19% of the care industry is staffed by foreign nationals wheras 94% taxi drivers in London is from an ethnic minority or migrant background.

In London, for example, a study by Brunel University found that 94% of PHV drivers are from ethnic minority or migrant backgrounds.
Additionally, the Dawn.com article mentioned that every seventh taxi driver in the UK is Pakistani.

Wow 😂

Why do people need so many servants? It would be far better economically to invest in public transport rather than give money to Uber.

Have you been to a "care home" recently? Many of them are farms to milk elderly people who they maintain in an artificial state of dependence (a dead resident = no fees, a less than highly dependent resident = requires more attention which is expensive).

All from the comfort of their 2 million pound Islington town house . So far removed from most people’s reality

I’ve often wondered why people have to live into their 80’s 90’s if they can’t do anything for themselves . Sitting in a chair dribbling with a stranger wiping your arse is not how people want to be remembered . Checking out at a time of your choosing after a good life seems eminently sensible , a dignity we afford our pets but not our grandparents .

The island of strangers quote was taken out of context.

It’s clearly not what he meant.

Conservative and Reform voters do NOT change their vote to Labour ever, so this pandering is worthless. But Labour can lose votes to the Greens and LDs at a high rate. Nearly ALL the Reform votes come from former Conservatives.

Interesting, if the data backs this up.

The former "red wall" was long-term labour voters, who switched to Conservative. I think Starmer is hoping to get these people back.
I agree that once these voters have broken out of the "culturally labour for generations" stranglehold, they are unlikely to return. What has 'modern' labour got to offer them in the absence of big industry and strong unions?

One quibble - I would have thought that a large proportion of Reform voters are former labour of the "red wall" demographic? So not all Reform is from Conservatives?

I think labours best strategy is to go back to its roots - i.e. to be for the labouring working classes, not for the liberal 'woke' middle class left.
Traditional labour is conservative on social issues, and left-wing on economic issues. These are the people who have switched to Reform or Conservative.
Labour will never get them back by being liberal on social issues and 'Tory light' on economic issues.

Because we don’t have enough people to do all the jobs that are needed.

I already left for the Greens

As a life-long Green voter (for the environment, obvs), I will never again vote for them. They are utterly barking mad on gender issues and have totally lost the plot, and in the process abandoned their raison d'etre.

Can't get the servants!

I'm not a Labour voter (which is why I don't start grand threads opining on who their leader should be) but I agree, it was obvious that he wasn't saying all immigrants are strangers but that our current dysfunctional immigration system is encouraging segregation instead of integration.

That’s how I read it as well.