Starmer Must Go

[BisiBodi]

I made a lengthy post yesterday (on this thread: www.mumsnet.com/talk/politics/5333405-changes-to-immigration-rules-announced-by-starmer?page=2 @ 17:43 if you want to read it) regarding the horrendous "island of strangers" speech by Starmer
Today, Kier Starmer has decided to say that immigration has done "incalculable damage" to the country. My despair and fury over this, and the general direction of labour, warrants its own thread.

Starmer claimed in writing that immigrants have put too much pressure on housing and public services (they don't, and he previously said they don't). He added that the immigration system is “almost designed to permit abuse” and that it risks “pulling the country apart”. He said that he wanted to close a “squalid chapter” in our country’s history (of too much immigration in the last few years), and then he seemed to quote the Rivers of Blood speech and said that without significantly reducing immigration the UK risks becoming “an island of strangers".

He's doing this because he's proposing new laws to make immigration harder and bring net migration down (except they definitely won't). Stuff like increasing it to 10 years before you can apply for indefinite leave to remain (10 years!!), introducing English language tests (in a post that suggests Welsh doesn't exist), reducing social care visas (the system would collapse in a day), being tougher on overseas students and reducing the time they can stay after graduation (if you reduce their numbers at all then Universities will be bankrupt immediately), new ID cards, reduce (oh sorry, "clarify") the amount ECHR article 8 can be used to justify people staying on human rights grounds, etc.

When someone pointed out that high migration helps economies and low hurts them, and that this is true in the EU right now and all over the world, Starmer didn't think so. He said that immigration has been high in the UK but the economy has been stagnant, so there can't be any link. Yes Keir, but the economy was stagnant during A PANDEMIC AND ENERGY CRISIS AND COST OF LIVING CRISIS AND EXPENSIVE NEW WARS AND GLOBAL MARKET TRUMP TURMOIL. If the immigrants hadn't kept us level, your "stagnant" economy would have plummeted like a rock. You cannot possibly be presenting that as X=Y in a total vacuum.

This kind of xenophobia doesn't need explaining, but it's worth saying why it won't work and will lose Labour a lot of votes:

• Conservative and Reform voters do NOT change their vote to Labour ever, so this pandering is worthless. But Labour can lose votes to the Greens and LDs at a high rate. Nearly ALL the Reform votes come from former Conservatives.
• Public concern about immigration is low and goes up and down exactly with how much the press is currently going on about it (see the graph) so is not worth alienating your voter base about
• And it is alienating voters, because you've heard this kind of rhetoric before but it was from the actual NF and BNP
• The Mail's headline today was still attacking Labour because it is impossible to ever go far enough for them, or for Reform voters. Nothing is ever enough.

So, Labour saying "Reform are right actually" won't bring a single voter over to Labour, but it sure will lose you a few. Or, er, a lot. People are resigning their Labour membership and sounding furious. I haven't seen a single event trigger this much outrage from the public (and Labour MPs) in quite a while. Starmer has hugely damaged himself. Germany's far-right AfD are praising him, that's the level it's at.

I already left for the Greens, but today has me going even further. I think it's now worth the potential chaos to get rid of Starmer's version of Labour. In a timely article today, Nesrine Malik called our current elections "hostage politics". You MUST vote Labour or the Tories will get in. Now you MUST vote Labour or Reform will get in.

I don't respond well to threats. Never have. I tend to escalate. And I'm bored of their crap: more cuts, keeping first-past-the-post even though Labour members want PR, refusing to talk about rejoining the EU even though Labour members (and the majority of the country) want full rejoin, this xenophobic shit which goes against everything Starmer said about immigration when he was running for leader (but then he's broken every pledge from that time), the anti-trans bollocks, coming for the disabled PIP and saying all benefits are too high and that people are taking advantage of handouts and all the rest.

Fuck these guys. There's pragmatic politics where you compromise, and then there's this literal far-right shit that means you personally HAVE to be comfortable with saying it in public. It's about the soul of the PM and the party. Today is way over the line of sensible cross-party anything.

And I'm done with hostage politics. What, so we keep Labour in for 8 more years of... this? Of the same or more cuts? I'm rapidly approaching the point where smashing this Labour party so that they never try to be centre- / far-right again would do more good than the short-term harm.

Voters didn't show unwavering support for Labour at the last election, they showed that they will be extremely flexible and vote for whoever can win in their area. If Labour become unpopular in the polls, that will be someone else and not them. Labour's lead is incredibly fragile and changeable and today's performance is EXACTLY how they lose it and deserve to lose it. Yes, some young men went to Reform before the election... and twice as many young women went to the Greens. Labour's share fell 21% in 18-24 year olds. You cannot gain a single Reform vote by going right. It will never be far-right enough.
Saying that Reform are correct and using their rhetoric in speeches and changing your policies to theirs is NOT how you defeat them, or run a country.

Replace Starmer, quickly. At the very least.

And so what is the purpose of this thread, other than to vent into an online echo-chamber? I think it's a request to a call to action. It's a call out to everyone who currently resides - whether you like it or not - in a Labour controlled constituency and has a labour MP.

You can easily find out the details, together with links to their speeches and/or voting records, from service such as They Work For You.
Check the details of your MP, and especially their stance on immigration and other matters important to you, then email them.

I do not think it is that simple. Plenty of rationale people want migration curbed to those who contribute honestly, work hard and pay taxes and do not commit crimes and adapt culturally. Lots of EU workers did just that (not all, of course). Lots of NHS nurses from all over the world do just that.
Not all the people voting Reform are voting for the same thing, most do not even know what they are voting for. We do not actually know what they stand for. Some are voting for the illusion of all migration curbed completely, others are voting for controls and sensible migration policies and enforcement. It is what we have been discussing at length.

Sky News say in polling 70% of people want a better EU trade and relationship deal inc Youth mobility.
I wonder if a Dublin agreement can be made too? the UK has a good bargaining chip in defence and FS.

Its only the diehards who want to go back to the 19th C who are against this & we can't be held to ransom by these idiots.

I’d get Labour being fine about casting it as a small amount of annoyance if Reform were on the old numbers of a few MPs at a GE. They’re now leading and could win FPTP.

They’re not a small angry amount anymore. Every party wants the red wall after all.

Same could be said for Labour + yesterday's battles. This lot think we are still in 1950s class divides, the world has moved on but this cabinet is entrenched in union politics. That's why they are so shit in House of Commons when debating, they can't debate they can only shout.
They are so angry, hate being questioned and challenged etc.

Talking about losing things, Labour lost Durham! That was an epic loss

Have you seen Kemi Badenoch? Shes absolutley appalling at PMQ's.She's not a 'Union Labour' type (even though I agree with you. Much of the Labour backbench are fighting the battles of the 70's.

I wasn't talking about her though. I agree with you but she also shows Starmer up for the way he speaks to her.

No she doesn’t. She’s rude and aggressive, it’s six of one and a half dozen of the other. The response to Liz Saville-Roberts was out of order admittedly.

Starmer is incredibly rude and aggressive plus belittling at PMQs. It likely feeds into his overall dropping ratings.

Starmer speaks to women who challenge him like something he's stepped in. He does not speak to men like that, ever.
The way he responds to Kemi B is disgusting.
The way he responded to LSR was disgusting. Rayner's face spoke a thousand words.

As an aside, Durham is yet another example of an area with low immigration supporting Reform.

The Labour isn’t working gang has turned up with its usual objectivity. 😂

As have the Starmer fan club, who will defend their hero no matter what he does. I don't find misogynistic men funny, but thanks for the emoji.

I didn't like how Starmer spoke to Liz Saville-Roberts or the way Reeves reacted. It was poor.

Badenoch is another matter. She is leader of the opposition and Starmer's job at PMQs is to show her up.

"Starmer fan club". How original! And dismissive.

I agree with you, and I am not fan of Badenoch. But, next time watch pmqs, have a look at the difference between her challenges, and someone like Stephen Flynn. He sneers and belittles women.

Always. Their usual.

I'm talking about Tories focusing on Labour, Labour very much focus on Reform, this is where the danger is for both parties, Tories need to wake up, unless of course they intend to merge with Reform?

How many MPs have Labour still got? losing a BE when the sitting MP beating up a member of the public and got a jail sentence?

Despite the swing to Reform, still just 6 votes.

And the post that prompted it?

Fan club?? where?? not on here there isn't.

But an easy slur when you run out of things to say.

Was the labour isn't working gang also an 'easy slur'?

As is the post that prompted it. Any comment on that?

Merely quoted the name of the thread some of you are on. It didn't use a belittling phrase to describe people who post on that thread.

Merely quoted the name of the thread some of you are on. It didn't use a belittling phrase to describe people who post on that thread.

Of course well done. It used the usual jibes and emojis. You can’t even recognise it anymore.

And what's the name of the thread that you are all on?