Starmer Must Go

[BisiBodi]

I made a lengthy post yesterday (on this thread: www.mumsnet.com/talk/politics/5333405-changes-to-immigration-rules-announced-by-starmer?page=2 @ 17:43 if you want to read it) regarding the horrendous "island of strangers" speech by Starmer
Today, Kier Starmer has decided to say that immigration has done "incalculable damage" to the country. My despair and fury over this, and the general direction of labour, warrants its own thread.

Starmer claimed in writing that immigrants have put too much pressure on housing and public services (they don't, and he previously said they don't). He added that the immigration system is “almost designed to permit abuse” and that it risks “pulling the country apart”. He said that he wanted to close a “squalid chapter” in our country’s history (of too much immigration in the last few years), and then he seemed to quote the Rivers of Blood speech and said that without significantly reducing immigration the UK risks becoming “an island of strangers".

He's doing this because he's proposing new laws to make immigration harder and bring net migration down (except they definitely won't). Stuff like increasing it to 10 years before you can apply for indefinite leave to remain (10 years!!), introducing English language tests (in a post that suggests Welsh doesn't exist), reducing social care visas (the system would collapse in a day), being tougher on overseas students and reducing the time they can stay after graduation (if you reduce their numbers at all then Universities will be bankrupt immediately), new ID cards, reduce (oh sorry, "clarify") the amount ECHR article 8 can be used to justify people staying on human rights grounds, etc.

When someone pointed out that high migration helps economies and low hurts them, and that this is true in the EU right now and all over the world, Starmer didn't think so. He said that immigration has been high in the UK but the economy has been stagnant, so there can't be any link. Yes Keir, but the economy was stagnant during A PANDEMIC AND ENERGY CRISIS AND COST OF LIVING CRISIS AND EXPENSIVE NEW WARS AND GLOBAL MARKET TRUMP TURMOIL. If the immigrants hadn't kept us level, your "stagnant" economy would have plummeted like a rock. You cannot possibly be presenting that as X=Y in a total vacuum.

This kind of xenophobia doesn't need explaining, but it's worth saying why it won't work and will lose Labour a lot of votes:

• Conservative and Reform voters do NOT change their vote to Labour ever, so this pandering is worthless. But Labour can lose votes to the Greens and LDs at a high rate. Nearly ALL the Reform votes come from former Conservatives.
• Public concern about immigration is low and goes up and down exactly with how much the press is currently going on about it (see the graph) so is not worth alienating your voter base about
• And it is alienating voters, because you've heard this kind of rhetoric before but it was from the actual NF and BNP
• The Mail's headline today was still attacking Labour because it is impossible to ever go far enough for them, or for Reform voters. Nothing is ever enough.

So, Labour saying "Reform are right actually" won't bring a single voter over to Labour, but it sure will lose you a few. Or, er, a lot. People are resigning their Labour membership and sounding furious. I haven't seen a single event trigger this much outrage from the public (and Labour MPs) in quite a while. Starmer has hugely damaged himself. Germany's far-right AfD are praising him, that's the level it's at.

I already left for the Greens, but today has me going even further. I think it's now worth the potential chaos to get rid of Starmer's version of Labour. In a timely article today, Nesrine Malik called our current elections "hostage politics". You MUST vote Labour or the Tories will get in. Now you MUST vote Labour or Reform will get in.

I don't respond well to threats. Never have. I tend to escalate. And I'm bored of their crap: more cuts, keeping first-past-the-post even though Labour members want PR, refusing to talk about rejoining the EU even though Labour members (and the majority of the country) want full rejoin, this xenophobic shit which goes against everything Starmer said about immigration when he was running for leader (but then he's broken every pledge from that time), the anti-trans bollocks, coming for the disabled PIP and saying all benefits are too high and that people are taking advantage of handouts and all the rest.

Fuck these guys. There's pragmatic politics where you compromise, and then there's this literal far-right shit that means you personally HAVE to be comfortable with saying it in public. It's about the soul of the PM and the party. Today is way over the line of sensible cross-party anything.

And I'm done with hostage politics. What, so we keep Labour in for 8 more years of... this? Of the same or more cuts? I'm rapidly approaching the point where smashing this Labour party so that they never try to be centre- / far-right again would do more good than the short-term harm.

Voters didn't show unwavering support for Labour at the last election, they showed that they will be extremely flexible and vote for whoever can win in their area. If Labour become unpopular in the polls, that will be someone else and not them. Labour's lead is incredibly fragile and changeable and today's performance is EXACTLY how they lose it and deserve to lose it. Yes, some young men went to Reform before the election... and twice as many young women went to the Greens. Labour's share fell 21% in 18-24 year olds. You cannot gain a single Reform vote by going right. It will never be far-right enough.
Saying that Reform are correct and using their rhetoric in speeches and changing your policies to theirs is NOT how you defeat them, or run a country.

Replace Starmer, quickly. At the very least.

And so what is the purpose of this thread, other than to vent into an online echo-chamber? I think it's a request to a call to action. It's a call out to everyone who currently resides - whether you like it or not - in a Labour controlled constituency and has a labour MP.

You can easily find out the details, together with links to their speeches and/or voting records, from service such as They Work For You.
Check the details of your MP, and especially their stance on immigration and other matters important to you, then email them.

Well everyone was saying what a bureaucrat Starmer is and how boring so I assume the speech writer decided to throw something slightly controversial in there. And it seems to have worked. Everyone is now listening.

I think it's hilarious. He is alienating liberal Labour supporters.

If he thinks bullshitting about immigration will win over right wing voters he is deluded. Reform supporters wouldn't vote for him under any circumstances and the Tories are dead.

And everyone was acknowledging that Starmer was being a Statesman abroad but not at home, so may have been another reason. The public here seem to be gagging for controversial figures, why else is Farage getting so much attention. He spouts nonsense all the time. And yet he is very popular and arguably the most successful politician in the last 25 years (whether one agrees with his politics or not). So Starmer has no choice but to attention seek as well.

Starmer is going for central Tory and Lib Dem ground and who else will Labour members vote for?

When I read this I think geez they deserve to go. We’ll see how it goes now people who previously thought it a bad topic have changed due to a Labour politician.

I agree with @MerlinsBeard1and why can’t ex Labour vote for Green / LDs etc?

I disagree. I think he's trying to win Reform voters.

He has an authenticity problem, you never know what you are going to get. Wet liberal, open all borders or a little Enoch. Same with the gender debate.

Yep, his principles change with the weather.

He has none.

A section of the British electorate is addicted to psychodrama after the final years to the last government. I think it’s a mistake to feed that addiction when Farage fills the breach so ably. Anyway, it’s a long time before we all troop to the polling station again and Reform have four years of putting their money where their mouth is for the first time ever. It’s going to be interesting.

Unfortunately we are going to need large detention centres to process and deport immediately. The Navy and Police need to be seen to be picking up migrants and shipping them to detention centres and back out fast. Look at Poland. We need the army at the coast at the moment. A strong deterrent with visual imagery sent out across social media that you will not be able to stay here.

I know Aus is different but a lot of their success was picking up boats and at no point allowing entry. We may need to raise taxes to tackle the problem and there will be no easy fix.

Equally all people here illegally should go immediately to detention centres. There needs to be a strong deterrent, sadly.

I agree with all of this aside from raising taxes. We don't need to raise taxes to sort this problem out, we just need to stop wasting money.

It costs to do this but it also stops spending in other related areas. You shift the billions from enabling a system to protecting instead.

Poland hasn’t consistently reduced its armed forces for years. Even if such a disgraceful idea was mooted - even the most rabid right wing politicians haven’t gone there - it’s highly unlikely the chiefs of staff would agree to their limited resources being used for political purposes.

Yes, you are right. Why should we pay for successive Government's (going back to Tony Blair's ridiculous policies on immigration, which was basically a calling card for everyone to get themselves over to the UK when the rest of the EU but a block on new EU members working. This sent a message to the world that the UK was the best place to migrate to. We are still feeling the effects of that today.

Incredible the damage that can be done in such a short space of time under Labour isn't it. Mind you the Tories have had 14 years and done nothing to stop the invasion! I honestly despair to think what we are going to look like in 10 years time if Reform don't take over.

GB news did a visit to Calais last week to see first-hand what is going on in France and there are masses of men all sleeping in tents in a warehouse piled on top of each other...tent upon tent piled high so you can see the draw to come here... straight to a hotel and some are 5 star I've seen it on my own door step.

Most don't speak a word of English so they are not going to be net contributors they are not bringing skills we need...several were interviewed happily stating they are coming for a house and a passport...they are in a safe country have passed through many other safe countries they are coming for the benefits we are way too soft and are in a holy mess....one way or another the boats need to be stopped.

It is many all young men coming from Syria, Afghanistan, Somalia, Iran, cultures not compatible with here especially in regards to their views on women.

ITV did a piece on the beach showing French police watch as dinghies casually picked people up. Cooper responded by saying ‘oh that’s not good’ as if it was news to her. They seem removed from the reality.

Yes and then probably apply for work visas at someone's vape, candy, barber, fried chicken shop and then stay here engaging in the criminal underworld because quite frankly what else would they be able to do?

The worst part is it is mostly liberal women with their bleeding hearts welcoming these men. Turkeys for Christmas.

“because quite frankly what else would they be able to do?”

Build houses on construction sites, for a start. If there an ID system and you could put them to work, then you might actually get something out of the brute force of an army of young men? Using your military language that you seem to enjoy.
If you cannot stop it and you cannot send them back, then use the ones here properly.

Surely people on building sites need trade skills. And it’s not really in line with what you preferred in the pp with the island of strangers approval.

How would this work? We would have too many men and not enough women? Doesn't take a genius to work out how this might cause massive risks to women's safety.

Again why do you want to protect these men over women in your own country?

Agreed. And this paper too.

Perhaps it will backfire on Labour as they switch like the wind but any focus on immigration benefits Reform.