Worried about Reform Electoral Victory

[RolandH]

Hello everyone,

I'm worried about a possible Reform electoral victory. I do disagree with alot of their policies, but the main thing which concerns me is, if they get in, I have doubts about whether they will preserve the integrity of our electoral system.

Looking at far right governments around the world just now, many of them seem to be happy to attempt to undermine the electoral process. Trump tried to after he lost to Biden, and I doubt that the next election in the US will be free and fair, as the republicans will be trying to replace the electoral officials with their people. In Hungary, the free press has been repressed. Things can obviously get worse than this.

I would like to hear if other people are worried about this, for people who are thinking about voting Reform or have done have thought about it, and also how people who are committed Reform voters would respond to this. Will you be ready to fight against this party if it looks like they are taking the country in an anti-democratic direction?

Trump's presidency is and will be a disaster. It'll make people think twice about voting for the poundshop version in Farage (the grifter's grifter) and Reform.

I tend to agree but who knows? It’s a long time before 2029.

But the fact it's a long time away makes current polling less important.

Farage couldn't even keep 5 MPs on the leash, he had to sack one. Then they win a by-election and that new MP has already caused the chairman to quit in a huff. Farage is a one man band like Trump, there's no substance to him. His policies economically are just rehased Truss nonsense that would crash the economy. Billions and billions of tax cuts with no means to fund it.

They're in charge of councils now which will be a disaster.

Labour and the Tories are in bad shape as well, which is why Reform are doing well, but the only issue they're really popular for is immigration. And 4 years is a long time so who knows if Starmer has got a grip on the boats or immigration numbers because we can't go on as we are.

There's a wiki page with all the results over the years if you search 'Hamilton, election results, Wikipedia'.

The same results are available on the government website but they're more difficult to find.

Absolutely right. It really amuses me to see people taking any notice of current polling, it’s as relevant as a four year weather forecast.

I have not read all the debate.
But I strongly agree with OP - they are a party of protest, not a constructive plan. They will roll back 50+ years of development, crash and burn the economy, the environment and our society, as they just do not have a pragmatic or constructive plan.
It is a worry.

Rumours about Farage's health

https://x.com/jdpoc/status/1930603296965656911

Nice placing of the microphone there.

Like that’s ever happening. It’s Farage’s party and you’ll cry if he wants you to

Unpaid care is massively underappreciated. I frankly think that people should be paid for it, and paid well.

I'm also very worried about the future of the NHS.

Thank you for engaging with my thoughts carefully and honestly.

@OutandAboutMum1821

Have you ever worked in or used the NHS if you think it's "precious". It's crumbling!

I think if your economic output were owed by the State, you would probably find yourself keeping alot less. There are lots of things I could say, but the most obvious one is that society is falling apart, and it's because it is not taxing the rich enough. But, as I said, the super rich are barely being taxed at all, and that would make a huge difference. I don't really understand the mindset of someone who is happy living in great wealth when other people in your own society - largely though no fault of their own - are destitute.

I would reiterate - "the majority of your income" over a certain threshhold. It is not a majority of your income, and as it only persists until you earn over £125,000, then it can never reach the point of being the majority of your income.

You would have an entitlement to benefits, actually. Job seekers allowance is initially paid on the basis of your NI contributions, if I remember correctly, for the first year. After that, you would qualify providing you didn't have sufficient savings. I think the cut off is £16,000. Of course, the housing benefit may not cover the mortgage, so the house or flat may be repossessed. Of course, this assumes you quit in order and don't take another job. Though of course quitting a job because you need to pay 63% tax on part of your income, for a job where you don't have to do this but end up with less income overall because you lose the 37% of that part of your income you were going to keep doesn't seem like a particularly sensible thing to do, from an economic point of view at least.

Also, as a left winger, I'd point out that of course the whips are involved. The state has police power and can and will often enforce its laws by force - including taxation. Though, of course, in a democracy, this excercise of force is the will of the populance, at least in one important sense.

Thank you - I'd not been aware of this particular aspect of the debate.

Don't they need to do this for all MPs now, after what happened to Jo Cox and David Amess?

If we have got to the stage where MPs cannot hold surgeries with their constituants, whoever they are, that is a very dark day, and one as a left winger I would not at all be happy about.

It is absurd. It's particularly absurd when you actually know people who are centre left, left and far left, and are aware of how much they disagree with each other. And that's not even getting into the numerous disagreements within the far left itself.

I'm very careful myself to make distinctions on the right. The whole point I wanted to explore here is that I am not worried about another Tory government as a threat to democracy, but I am for a Reform government. Even then, there are parties and groups to the right of Reform. It's the minimum of respect in political discourse to actually listen to what your opponent thinks - unless you have a very good reason to think they are being disingenuous.

I'm holding onto this hope, but I don't know. The sort of media read by the people who can be relied upon up go out and vote will be heavily promoting Reform as the solution because 'we need something new', when of course Reform is nothing new, and has all the wrong solutions to all the wrong problems.

It is precious - the fact that our health system is free at the point of use is a tremendous achievement. It is obviously in trouble. From what I have read and listened to there is no quick fix (though, as a social care worker, I would add that if our sector was sorted out, it would help it a great deal). I am very glad Labour is putting money into it. It may need more - and it should come from the rich, who have disproportionately benefitted from government policies and world events for the last 15 years, at least.

I'm not in principle opposed to any kind of reform of the basis model - but I pretty much am in practice as I wouldn't trust any of the current parties who would want to reform it to not just wreak it. We could end up like they are in the US - type 1 diabetics dying because they can't afford their insulin, etc. I don't know many of them how they live with themselves and what they allow to happen to their fellow citizens.

You’ve hit the nail on the head there regarding lack of respect during political discussions. People get angry and often don’t like being challenged or they treat it like it’s a joke and they are at a school debating club rather than discussing serious issues- I blame PM Questions for this, as they emulate this “make fun”, school boy debating club culture. This is partly why I believe the system is so flawed and corrupt.

Also the fact that most politician’s don’t admit for whatever reason when they get it wrong which is also ridiculous.. what’s so wrong with U turns on things?? It’s a sign politicians are thinking, listening and responding. Also the lack of punishment for politicians when they do wrong during office- and there are many examples whatever political party you look at.. it seems anything goes these days. Just look at Trump.. it’s been said for many years where America goes we usually follow…

I've lost all enthusiasm for politics, its sad to see how low it's sinking. We are turning into America polarised into sects where free thought is ridiculed.

We have the grooming gangs at the moment and all I see is political point scoring rather than parties working together to tackle this horrendous situation.

It's the same as the debate on the Burka, Kemi Badenoch saying she refuses to talk to them....I mean honestly why would you say that as a politician..... your job is to talk to all constituents.... playground politics to appease the big bad bully.

I've got no respect for reform or their voters and to be honest I don't expect the politicians I support to sink into the gutter to win votes. I want a politician strong enough to tell the truth and challenge the lies being told by reform. I want a politician to argue for public spending where it can make a positive impact on our communities.

Oh my God, yes about the 'U Turns' thing. I hate that so much. You get pressure going 'Do this thing! Change your mind! Reverse that decision!' but then if politicians do it, they then get 'Humiliating climbdown! Embarrassing U turn!'

How about 'Thank you for listening and responding'? Half the reason politicians take so long to respond I think is because they know they'll get lambasted... for doing what people were demanding.

I haven’t worked in the NHS but have close family that do.

I have only ever used NHS medical care. I am hugely grateful to them- they saved my first child’s life when he was born, and my own. I could see how hard things were whilst I waited in A & E, everyone was doing their best, there were huge delays but in the end they got on top of my kidney infection and prevented me from developing sepsis.

Anybody who works for the NHS only has thanks and heartfelt appreciation from me.

I would love to know what NHS staff think would solve the enormous pressure they have to work under. Which political party could best help? Which policies? I am keen to learn more.

Very true and often they can't win even if the policy was actually fair and balanced. The debate on the winter fuel payments, the idea that the wealthiest pensioners didn't a fuel allowance....it was based on sound logic. A small number of pensioners have considerable income, savings and assets.....do we honestly have to fund their fuel when the money could be better spent on those that need it. The Daily Mail painting a picture of pensioners with 30k a year pensions freezing to death. Forced into an embarrassing UTURN when they finally gave into the rabid tabloids.

There's a group of people swooning after a Trump style government in the UK but how many are paying attention to the facts. Trump isn't actually doing very well....he's not actually saved any money, He's not ended any conflicts, America isn't looking that great from here and it's economy hasn't booked and if anything it's in shock.

Did you post about u turns from last gov? Many did.

On Labour they are mostly trying to save their careers and fear Reform. Policy changes happened after the local elections.

I didn't like the Tories but I also didn't like it when people did the same to the them so I wouldn't have posted critically about them doing so, no.

Not saying I'm a fan of Labour either - they are making it easier for Reform to get in by trying to be Reform-lite.

Farage is just grim.