Worried about Reform Electoral Victory

[RolandH]

Hello everyone,

I'm worried about a possible Reform electoral victory. I do disagree with alot of their policies, but the main thing which concerns me is, if they get in, I have doubts about whether they will preserve the integrity of our electoral system.

Looking at far right governments around the world just now, many of them seem to be happy to attempt to undermine the electoral process. Trump tried to after he lost to Biden, and I doubt that the next election in the US will be free and fair, as the republicans will be trying to replace the electoral officials with their people. In Hungary, the free press has been repressed. Things can obviously get worse than this.

I would like to hear if other people are worried about this, for people who are thinking about voting Reform or have done have thought about it, and also how people who are committed Reform voters would respond to this. Will you be ready to fight against this party if it looks like they are taking the country in an anti-democratic direction?

Next you’ll be saying only those that afford children should have them… thin of the wedge eugenics in my opinion.

You think I support eugenics because I don't believe that the taxpayer should fund parents to stay at home with their children?

That's pretty fucked up logic tbh. You might want to get some help.

Nice because I point out the consequences of your thinking you think I’m the one that needs help. Just because you don’t like what I’m saying doesn’t mean it’s not right. I think you need to might need to step away from the keyboard and calm down a bit.

You didn't point out the consequences of my thinking, though. You made a ridiculous and illogical leap in an attempt to insult me because you didn't like what I said.

If you believe that you actually have a point, then by all means, feel free to articulate that point properly and set out how you reached your conclusions, so that we can actually have a proper discussion. But if you're just going to hurl random insults without attempting to justify your position, then I can't really engage with that.

It need not be a policy that explicitly tries to put women off working, but it you make it make more economic sense to be a stay-at-home mam, then you can expect that to become a trend.

Women should get support for their kids whether they work or not, in my opinion.

The fact it has integrity is illustrated that we have just had a transition of government from Conservative to Labour, without protest from the Conservatives. Similarly, Reform have made major gains. If it was an unfair system they would not have been allowed to do so.

My preference is for a mixed first-past-the-post/represational system. What we have in Scotland is much more preferable. The problem with getting rid entirely of First-Past-The-Post is that it severs the link between MPs and their constituants. The parties could move people around to represent people as they wished.

It's not about not valuing them. It's about valuing them more than mothers who also work. They should be valued the same, all things considered.

I agree that it should be more based on what is best for the children, rather than whether there are two parents or not.

However, if you don't provide any support for parents who want to work, all you do is end up forcing lots of parents - and mostly women - to stay at home, whether they want to or not. It's important, and good for our economy, to have women working.

It's not discriminatory, as you could also receive that benefit if you chose to work.

As if the UK has got the money to fund people’s parenting choices. My mother looked after me at home when I was small, but depended on my father earning the money to do it. If he hadn’t managed that then she would have gone out to work.

The UK already has the money, and does so spend it. We do have child benefits, and parents can receive money for childcare. What we are debating is the level the expendature should be - assuming any changes would actually cost more money, rather than saving more in the long run perhaps.

And if she went out to work, who would have looked after you while she did? Not everyone has people they can rely on for this, particularly not in our current society, unfortunately.

They will promise the moon on a stick , all being funded by ending DEI initiatives and stopping immigration. It will make no sense but will appeal to people too thick to understand how things workk in the real world. And it will also be supported and enabled by rich and influential people who will make money from it even though they know it is nonsense.

I'm not worried about a Reform majority, because I am confident it will not happen. However, I can see them being the largest or second largest party.

It is discriminatory, because if 2 people can work and get free childcare, or 2 people can work and not have children, that puts a man or woman who is working alone to support their entire family on one wage at a disadvantage, and harder for them to afford that option.

If we are giving out free childcare we should also be making sure married, single earner breadwinners are taxed differently to refiect and value that their income supports a family. That’s been done before, and is still the norm in other countries.

My DH is a hard working man who works hard to support his 2 children. He has friends the same age who only have themselves to support, who earn more to start with, and spend it all on themselves. How is it fair that they are taxed the same as him when they have no dependents?

This will all change soon thankfully, and it is about time. Well said Nigel 👏🏻

I wouldn't be so sure.

Winning election /referendum these days is all about techniques and technology and competence of those running campaign. Plus funding of course, ability to influence public on SM.

We've seen it with Brexit, AfD (not won but had huge success),Trump and many many other examples.

Dominic Cummings (remember him - Brexit + Tory in 2019???) is now advising Farage. I'm actually ready to bet on him, I hate the man (actually both, Dom and Nige), but can't deny he's super bright.

It's utterly terrifying. And I see no resistance to these dark forces amongst liberals.

ETA: have you noticed this change - only recently it was completely unacceptable on MN to say that you support Reform. It's now full of it. This always begins with normalisation.

I would agree with that and definitely don’t think it’s valued as much as parents working outside the home.

-Scrapping Green initiatives
Good

-Drilling in the North Sea
Good

-Ditching Net Zero Policy
Good

-Scrapping Renewable energy subsidies
Good

-A ban transgender ideology
Good

-Change Hate Crime legislation (removing protection for LGBTQ and minorities)
Surely any legislation should protect all citizens, not just chosen groups.

-An abandonment of the Windsor Framework ( this is the Northern Ireland agreement which allows NI to trade with Ireland and is designed to protect the NI / Eire trade and border Independence from the Horizon EU grants for innovation program)
I wanted a no deal Brexit. If Ireland want a border, that's their choice.

-Changes to child benefit that encourage women not to work and become stay at home mums
I'd prefer to see major cuts to benefits to encourage/force people back into work.

-Privatisation of the NHS
Yes please. I'd much prefer the German system.

-A rejection of the ECHR
Yes please.

-Leaving the World Health Organization
I'm not bothered either way.

-Scrapping the Equalities act
I presume the equalities act is the opposite of equality and gives certain groups special treatment?

Thank goodness most don't agree with you regarding the NHS...

And in case you've not been paying attention - Brexit was a disaster

I still don't understand how they get so much press coverage with how few elected MPs they still actually have.

So I think press is already biased...

Privatisation of the NHS
Yes please. I'd much prefer the German system.

My sister in law who’s lived in Germany for 50 years doesn’t. It costs her and her husband €550 a month. She’s deeply envious of our NHS care.

I assume those salivating to pay are wealthy and can afford it.

Either that or they like watching others suffer.. or both of these things.

I doubt they'd give others a second thought. "I'm all right Jack."

Sadly, I think you're right.

German people and their employers pay a percentage of their wages. The unemployed and pensioners have it paid by the government.

18% of uk government spending is on the NHS. I've just calculated that I'm spending £490 a month on the NHS, which is €580. I'm then spending another small fortune on private medical cover for my family because the NHS is so shit.

The German system has better outcomes in every area and none of the waiting lists or rationing.

The UK system is more equitable and that is important to many people.